Progress thread for ne

[Chi]

Progress thread for ne

missyabby1;1107233 wrote: Hey Ne, when you go to your AA meetings, do you stop them all at the door and tell them they are wasting their time going inside? In the meetings, if they get past you, do you say over and over again, that baclofen will cure them, as you do on this forum? Do you do this face to face with these people? In fact, do you tell them, as you tell new people on this forum, that baclofen will fix them, no doubt, jkttdm pills. If you are so damn sure why is it that you can sit in an AA room and not shout it from the rafters? I gather you have not done that yet?

I think I saw you write that it is not your job to do that in an AA meeting. But it seems to be your job here?? Is it that hard to do it face to face? You have obviously been one of the success stories of baclofen, then imho you should pass it on to these rooms, where honesty abides. imho, until you can do that, then going to AA meetings and not speaking your truth is something of a travesty, for you and them.

missy

How is what Ne says or doesn't say at an AA meeting any business of yours?

[beatle]

Progress thread for ne

missyabby1;1107233 wrote: Hey Ne, when you go to your AA meetings, do you stop them all at the door and tell them they are wasting their time going inside? In the meetings, if they get past you, do you say over and over again, that baclofen will cure them, as you do on this forum? Do you do this face to face with these people? In fact, do you tell them, as you tell new people on this forum, that baclofen will fix them, no doubt, jkttdm pills. If you are so damn sure why is it that you can sit in an AA room and not shout it from the rafters? I gather you have not done that yet?

I think I saw you write that it is not your job to do that in an AA meeting. But it seems to be your job here?? Is it that hard to do it face to face? You have obviously been one of the success stories of baclofen, then imho you should pass it on to these rooms, where honesty abides. imho, until you can do that, then going to AA meetings and not speaking your truth is something of a travesty, for you and them.

missy

This post is like a nail through my heart.

I'm not sure where this came from. And why -- and why now. And most especially, why here?

I think Ne has always made clear how she feels about AA, and that AA is one of her important tools. But missy's post has nothing to do with AA. It is a personal attack that I don't understand, but I'm not going to "defend" Ne. Especially not here. Nobody should have to be defended (or defend themselves) on their own progress thread.

I know it is fast becoming the modus operandi for some members here on MWO, but nobody should be attacked like that anywhere on this forum, or anywhere at all, for that matter -- online or off. It is mean. It serves no purpose. It disturbs and distracts. It is mean.

It reminds me of, and reinforces, my decision to post very little of my personal thoughts and feelings on my personal thread.

I hope this does not distract you, Ne. This thread has been a safe haven (mostly, and especially lately), in a way -- or at least somewhere that offered hope, laughter & inspiration -- and I hope it will continue to be so. In the current MWO climate, I couldn't bear to lose it.

[Doggygirl]

Progress thread for ne

Ne, I'l love to go to an AA meeting (or shopping, or lunch, or all 3) with you. Any time.

DG

[bleep]

Progress thread for ne

Going to an AA meeting and "shouting from the rafters" was actually my first impulse after reaching indifference. Luckily, I quickly realised, before making a fool of myself, that the whole thing just doesn't work that way. Any person who reads Ne's thread will soon realise she has come to the same realisation. Missy, I'll take your post in the spirit of honest enquiry, since I myself have asked the same question.

On a side note, it's tough spelling the British way. every word that requires an "s", rather than a "z" is underlined. If you are anything like me, seeing an underlined word in your post is terrible, and more of a nail in my heart than anything else. I add them all to my dictionary, so the problem gets less and less, but it still hurts.

EDIT: I just re-read your post Missy. It's hard to take that as an enquiry, which it could so easily have been, and a good one at that. There's just no need.

[Florieanne]

Progress thread for ne

Hey there

missyabby1;1107233 wrote: I think I saw you write that it is not your job to do that in an AA meeting. But it seems to be your job here?? Is it that hard to do it face to face? You have obviously been one of the success stories of baclofen, then imho you should pass it on to these rooms, where honesty abides. imho, until you can do that, then going to AA meetings and not speaking your truth is something of a travesty, for you and them.

missy

If you had carefully read Ne's thread, you'd know that she questionned herself on this particular point...

My answer then was to tell her that the current French AA director is a physician who prescribes bac. Official news published in a national magazine.
Besides many AA members are on meds and Ameisen, in his book, constantly refers to the AA & to how, once on bac, he was (at last!) able to benefit from all the knoweldge he had gained going to the AA meetings.

Nice day everyone!
Florie

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Good morning everyone!

I'll keep this thing up as long as it feels right and until I find a better/different solution. But thanks for the encouragement, it's always appreciated.

Thanks, Zen. Your point was well made and taken out of context. oops. But it was also well taken. We have some work to do down here in our little MWO microcosm.

My friends, I love you.

Florie, nice to see you! Hope you're well. :l

Missy, my friend. AA. It was a quandary, and Florie is right. I struggled a bit with it. Without belaboring the point or being snarky, I think that's a legitimate question. My conclusion was that I have something to contribute and something to glean. I'm not sure how that's going to play out.

I feel pretty confident that many, many people would be appalled and would dislike me if they knew about the bac. Which makes me feel like a poser/self-conscious. Especially when I say the prayers, and "Just keep coming back it works if you work it." [come to think of it, maybe I'll just think, Just keep taking bac, it works if you take it. lol. That was a joke. okay?]

It definitely pains me when people share about repeated relapses or struggling with craving and battling the demon tooth and nail. I want to pull them aside and share my experience, strength and hope. ***see EDIT

But what would I share? I don't yet have 90 days of indifference. (fast approaching, though!) I don't have even a week without what AA-ers call a 'slip' when they're being generous. A 'relapse' when they're not. (A couple of beers and a glass of wine, I think. I'm not even sure how I feel about it.)

Bac is a commitment. Not unlike everything else we do to get and stay sober. There are lots of things I'm working out for myself. I find guidance here. What would I share when I'm still so new?

It works. That I truly believe. And I AM doing that with some people who are not involved in MWO. They were looking to bac as a tool before I got involved, though. I hope that there will be a time when I am trustworthy, when I can actually share my experience. That won't happen if I walk in and say, "HEY! I'VE FOUND A SOLUTION AND YOU'RE ALL WRONG!" I don't believe they're wrong, anyway. I just believe there is more, much more, that overcoming alcoholism entails. (like science and research and fact. Much of which is missing in the rooms, for the record.)

For me, frankly, that begins and ends with bac. There is SO much more than that, though, in dealing with the repercussions of a lifetime of self-abuse. If you read the threads, and listen to the ones who have found indifference, you'll hear it over and over again. For me, and just for me, the solutions to those questions and quandaries might be found in AA. In the meantime, I'd just like to make some friends who drink tea instead of vodka shots. You know?

I went to one meeting where they kept going on about the fact that we (alcoholics) are alcoholics because we are morally and spiritually bereft. The implication was that there is something 'bad' about us. I don't like those people. I don't even feel compassion for them, atm. I'm not spiritual enough yet. grrrr. It makes me so angry, made me so angry in the moment, I felt like telling them all to fuck off and that they were stuck in some sort of sick and twisted place. whatever. I live in a southern part of the US where evangelism and damnation and condemnation can be a part of my everyday life if I let it. So can outright racism and bigotry. I can't wait to get the hell out of here and bac to civilization. (yep. I said it. But seriously, I'm not suggesting that southerners are ALL like that. I'm one by birth. I'm a yankee by choice. You Europeans wouldn't understand that reference, but hopefully my southern friends around here will get it. I should delete all of that...but I won't. pfffffffft)

And on that note I'm going to have to sign off for a couple of hours. Ironically, I've got to go to church. With a fundamentalist friend. She wants support while she looks for a "new church home." She believes I am going to hell because I don't have a one true savior. (unless it's bac. and :H) I think she hopes that I'll see the light. Who knows? But I seriously doubt it. It is sometimes excruciating, but I like the music and my friend.

But first, back to the bac and Ne-land: More chaos has erupted at Ed's work place. I FREAKED out. My first response, I kid you not, was to grab a beer. I wanted to get DRUNK right then and right there. I drank it. Over the next hour. While talking rationally (eventually) about the new drama. (!?! ration and reason returns to the Ne household. wow.) Turns out it could be an incredible opportunity for Ed. He's going to apply for a promotion which would entail a very significant $$$ increase. Enough that I could get my beloved Mac, but more importantly, I could go to school full time.
It's still a pipe dream, but one worth daydreaming about!
It would also mean that instead of working a paltry 60 hours a week, he'd basically sleep here for the foreseeable future... poor guy. poor Ne.
And just for the official record, I don't think there is any way at all, there was no possibility that this would've played out this way if he wasn't taking bac and drinking significantly less. His insecurities and self-esteem were a huge stumbling block. His very ability to function under stress was stress-inducing. And now? wowza. just sayin
Plus, we had a really nice dinner, that we prepared together and ate together. In the same room, even.
Things are so damn good in the Ne household that I am almost holding my breath waiting for the other shoe to drop. When it does, we'll deal with that too. I just hope it's after I buy the damn computer. :H

Off to find something to wear to church. (skinny jeans that show my underwear and a tank top that shows my bra? One that meets at 7pm, where everyone sits around outside smoking, littering their speech with expletives? THAT is a church I could go to. Sort of like AA...) :H

Hope it's a good day for you all!
xo
Ne

***EDIT: It also makes me question what I'm doing and what I know and I'm not sure it's the right place for me. It confuses me and I may opt to not go. I have enough friggin battles to fight around here and in my own mind. I might not need someone telling me, repeatedly, that I need to do x,y and z in order to stay sober, when that is contrary to my experience... But. There are a lot of really good things going on too. Who knows. If I take the time to write an email or two, I'll get help with navigating that dilemma. But now, dammit, I'm late. Again.
Also, sister, I think you oughta think about taking bac. Yep. I said it. Call me a pusher. Whatever. Campral doesn't work very well. You're suffering. Bac may help. just sayin what I've been thinking for a loooong time.

[Doggygirl]

Progress thread for ne

Mornin' NE!! Very happy to read of Ed's promotional possibilities! I hope that all plays out in the best possible way for both of you!

Putting my "marketing cap" on (I do have a degree in that, and I find it humorous there is a "B.S." with it :H), I think it would be far easier to introduce bac to an open minded AAer as an aid to stop drinking than as an aid to be able to safely drink. Just sayin'. FWIW. I know I have a hard time viewing the drinking safely part as a good idea, and I'm around here watching the miracles happen. Also there is the technicality that AA membership is open to all with a desire to stop drinking. Not to say there aren't many, many, many in the rooms where the real desire is to get their drinking under control. We've all been there. Just food for thought. You already know how helpful I have found AA in just finding my footing in a life without alcohol. I would personally have a hard time either 1) leaving out the fact that I was drinking, and feeling honest about that or 2) trying to explain that I can control my drinking, which would take meetings totally off track in some way shape or form. If drinking or not is really a simple choice at this stage (indifference) then why not consider chosing not to, if that is more consistent with where you want to go with this sobriety thing? (both giving and receiving in AA)

I personally do not believe I became an alcoholic due to spiritual problems. I believe my inner /spiritual problems came as a result of my alcoholism. And there are plenty of people in AA who believe that too. I feel that belief is supported in the Big Book. (references to friendship with science and the medical community, mention that science might someday provide a solution, etc.) I dont' choose to sit in meetings listening to interpretations I disagree with either. A little is fine. A meeting dominated by that would not be a meeting I would return to again and again. I guess I'm lucky to be in a populous area where I have lots of choices!

Anyway....sorry to go on so much about that. And I promise I will stop nagging now. And you can :b&d: me if I don't keep good on that. Have a fabulous day!

DG

[Florieanne]

Progress thread for ne

Good Evening Ne

It's a pleasure to read your posts. I'm very happy for you & your husband. I'ts a great gift.
I'm doing very well at the moment. You know my way out is the psychoanalytical work I've been doing, so I stick to that.
Ihve stopped taking bac regularly. One day last week I felt I wanted to get completely drunk. So I took 20mg, had a sleep attack about an hour later. No drink. That's how I'm using bac.
i have just spent 3 days with my best friend who was still addictive a year ago...But changed many things in her life ( town, friends, family relationships, job...) while using AD and xanax alone. She really chose a new life, the life she intimately wanted for herself and stopped drinking ( ending up in PH and so on...).
We really had a great time, no alcohol in the way...!!! Not even the thought of it.
Too happy to be together for 3 days. Shopping, cooking, going to the movies, the restaurant... Last time I have seen her was last June.

The psychoanalytical way does work on some people. It's a different path and it takes ages but it's very rewarding in the end.
Just like bac, it works for some and is an horrendous experience for others.

But it hasn't prevented me from trying other tools now and then...Going to treatment centers, to the AA, bac for a 3 months,... I've learnt a lot through all theses experiences.

I'm very happy to be here with you.
I have chosen to adopt the same attitude as you did as regards the past confusing questionnings I took part in. The fact that I decided to stop bac and was able to do it without relapsing doesn't change anything. I still believe it's an excellent med for some people; which is great news in fact.
The more "ways out", the more "cured"
The best to you Ne,
Florie

[bleep]

Progress thread for ne

That's where I fall down Florie - the various tools available to us. I really need o get a couple of tools in my toolbox, at the moment, baclofen rattles around all by itself. It's enough for now, but t could do with some company!

Glad to hear you are doing well.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

manomanomanoman

My day, the one that started so sunshine-y bright I had to wear shades was derailed a bit by the time I went to bed last night. I was in quite a funk. Not sure, frankly, if I'm out of it yet. I'm going to refrain from spewing that out around here this morning. In great part due to the fact that I am beginning to recognize MWO again! (thanks to Ig and Zen for their part in that!)

Florie, so glad to hear about what you're doing and what your feelings are after some reflection. (That was pretty painful, wasn't it? It was for me, personally.) Part of my angst has to do with my new therapist and trying to introduce bac to a new psychiatrist. I was despairing because these guys are treating others who are not getting any better! (And one of them is taking enough sedatives for her anxiety that she's a little zombie-ish.) whatever.
I know you're not taking bac, but I'd be really interested in hearing more about the experience of how that plays out in the AA meetings. Also, any insight into psychoanalysis, which I frankly think of as psychobabble more often than not, would be VERY helpful. I'd like to overcome my disdain and enter into the process expecting positive results. Help!?

DG, as always, your thoughts demand some reflection and introspection. And make me smile, too, which is more important than anything! Thank you.

Doggygirl;1107624 wrote: I would personally have a hard time either 1) leaving out the fact that I was drinking, and feeling honest about that or 2) trying to explain that I can control my drinking, which would take meetings totally off track in some way shape or form. If drinking or not is really a simple choice at this stage (indifference) then why not consider chosing not to, if that is more consistent with where you want to go with this sobriety thing? (both giving and receiving in AA)

My first reactions, after a day's reflection, are these:
1. Lots and loads of people in AA who are drinking. I once said that I was "mostly sober." Which is really, really funny isn't it? In AA that's akin to saying, "I'm a little pregnant." I can hear the thoughts still: "You either are or you ain't, sister. The rest is deNile..." :H
2. yeah. That's just not going to fly, is it? It's inconceivable that there is such a thing as controlled drinking for an alcoholic. Except that's my experience.

I'm not sure how I feel about trying to abstain to prove the point. I'm not sure I want to abstain, or even continue to think about my drinking. Other than whether or not I'm drinking against my will. But, being well schooled in AA, and not having a lot of people to base my own trajectory on, it feels like a very dangerous thing to investigate.

If for no other reason, I'd like to have 30 days under my belt to prove to myself that I just don't care about booze. (but if I don't care, what does it matter? sigh. whatever. that sounds to me like an excuse...)
But even more important than that, more important than AA even, I'd like to honor the coin that Edostan sent me. I told myself that it would be a gift for 30 days sobriety, but having no impulse control especially when it comes to presents (who does, for goodness' sakes???) I opened it and have carried it since the day I got it. I haven't heard from him, and fervently pray that he and his are well and that he's found a way out that doesn't include MWO...

I'll let you know what I decide. And when. In the meantime, I'm going up on the bac to 180mg today. I've got some research to do about bac that outweighs the other stuff. I've been procrastinating because I don't know how to do it... But I don't have to be afraid anymore, of anything (even spiders! though still irrationally scared of sharks...I blame Jaws for that.)

Peace out, peeps!
:h and :l
Ne

Ed's doing fine, but has started having some disconcerting SEs. Sleep disturbance just started. (We both woke up at 3am, ready to start the day. The clock was facing the wall, and when he checked his phone and told me the time we got bac into bed! :H)
The visual stuff and eyesight thing.
The somnolence, though, could have a dramatic impact on the transitions/stress that he's facing at work. (somnolence is a better description than fatigue, imo, since it's not related to lack of sleep, but to amount of bac.)
For those reasons he's decided to go down to 140mg/day or maybe lower. It'll be interesting to me to see where and when he finds a more comfortable spot. I'm very nervous, though, about what that will mean in terms of his drinking and his smoking. I hope there is a balance to be found for the short term!

[Doggygirl]

Progress thread for ne

Hi Ne! Just popping in to say good morning. Glad you are doing well. Sending positive vibes your way for Ed. I too hope he finds a good comfort spot. Hope everything works out to the positive on the work front for him. And you.

Zoom zoom..

DG

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

zoom zoom!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

I know this isn't the place or the forum, but you are my friends and I am moved.

I've just read the news. I hope this indicates the end of something. I am surprised at my own feelings of relief and jubilation.

Peace, my dear friends.

[bleep]

Progress thread for ne

Ne, I have the same thoughts, almost exactly, about drinking. They go in a great big circle, and I never seem to reach a conclusion. So much so that I have completely stopped thinking about it. That seems to work, and at least gives me some peace!

I never read or watch the news. It's generally a depressing litany of disasters that are unrelated to me in every way. I found out about the Japanese earthquake from MWO!

[Bruunhilde]

Progress thread for ne

Ne/Neva Eva;1108292 wrote: I know this isn't the place or the forum, but you are my friends and I am moved.

I've just read the news. I hope this indicates the end of something. I am surprised at my own feelings of relief and jubilation.

Peace, my dear friends.

Karen, if you're talking about being gladdened by the news of bearded guy, I know what you mean. I was sort of shocked at feeling relief that he's gone, but then again, he's had plenty of time to recruit disciples and teach all his evil ways. Is there anything worse than using your treasured spiritual/religious beliefs to cause harm?

I think of the twin towers and pentagon and all the people in all the planes, and the loved ones of these and of the first responders still suffering PTSD and lung disease, and of all the people in the world going through hell from mother nature on top of this man-inspired evil, and it boggles. Just eliminating one major source of man-made tsunamis is good news.