Progress thread for ne

[beatle]

Progress thread for ne

Murphyx;1171133 wrote: What the hell's a tarbaby? And what's a Pollyanna? Why do you people keep making words up?

Don't you ave internet, Murph?

[Murphyx]

Progress thread for ne

In my opinion, one of the greatest causes of anxiety while titrating up on HDB is not drinking. Too often people try to abstain and, sadly, others try to convince, cajole, emotionally blackmail them into abstinence. There's no need for it, it just adds extra pressure into an already very stressful situation. You'll stop drinking soon enough when the bac works its magic. Just let it.

beatle;1171173 wrote: Don't you ave internet, Murph?

Yep, I ave one of those internets but I use it sparingly, after all I wouldn't want to wear it out.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Morning, all.
I'm thinking of adding Wellbutrin (bupropion) to the mix in order to help with my effort to quit smoking. I'm also very interested in the drug because of it's interaction with dopamine, which keeps coming up as a factor in alcoholism in the information I'm reading. I'm very reluctant to add another brain-chemistry-chemical to the mix, but think that there is enough empirical evidence here to suggest bupropion is okay with HDB.

I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts about this.

The drug is a non-tricyclic antidepressant and differs from most commonly prescribed antidepressants such as SSRIs, as its primary pharmacological action is thought to be norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibition. It binds selectively to the dopamine transporter, but its behavioural effects have often been attributed to its inhibition of norepinephrine reuptake.[3][4] It also acts as a nicotinic acetylcholine receptor antagonist.[5][6] Bupropion belongs to the chemical class of aminoketones and is similar in structure to stimulants cathinone and diethylpropion, and to phenethylamines in general.

I would love to figure out what all that means in relation to a lack of enjoyment from dopamine, which is what an article I read recently suggests contributes to the disease...

And despite asking for the general help of all and sundry here at MWO, I'm going to have to bow out for a little while. For several reasons, I'm to try very hard not to participate as much as I have been. Or if I do, it'll be here on my home thread. Which seems counterproductive since part of my frustration is that people don't seem to be reading, or reaching out to one another. That was a lifeline for me, and it makes me sad to see.

There are a couple of things that I feel strongly enough about that will continue to stay on my radar, but in general, I'm outta time. I'm simply putting it out there because I don't want the few who might worry to worry!

:l

Edit: For those of you that I annoy, please do not throw a party. That would make me feel bad.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

beatle, I'll have to follow up later. Sorry, sister, et al.

[Murphyx]

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Oh OK, I'll just make sure I post any offensive jokes about knobs and boobs on this thread to make sure you see them.

I'm glad you've bought up the subject of Wellbutrin and dopamine. I've just come off bupropion, after spending around a year on it. Partly because it seems to have stopped helping me and partly because of the increasing number of chemicals I'm using that effect my poor soggy brain.

Bupropion works in the same way on dopamine as Prozac does on serotonin: it's a reuptake inhibitor. One of the reasons I/we/people have a downer on SSRIs is because of this reuptake inhibition i.e. they don't increase serotonin just allow you to reuse what you have. So we move away from that action and take drugs (5-HTP, L-Tryptophan) to actually increase the amount of serotonin available to the brain. Maybe we should be doing the same with dopamine?

I have no idea if Wellbutrin reduced my nicotine cravings. To be honest, I don't think I've had any since I started using baclofen. That hasn't stopped me smoking though.

One of the really good things about Wellbutrin is the sexual effects. It has a tendency to improve orgasm and speed up climax, which is why they often give it to Prozac users 'cos that shit is a real passion killer.

[Doggygirl]

Progress thread for ne

Hey Murph (or Ne or anyone)...

Is there a natural supplement that is to dopamine as L-Tryptophan is to Seratonin?

Thanks!

DG

[SlipperyPete]

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Hi DG,

I qualify under "or anyone" so I'll throw in my 2 pence.

In much the same way that l-tryptophan --> 5-htp --> serotonin,

tyrosine(an amino acid) --> l-dopa --> dopamine, although taking tyrosine doesn't seem to have much effect, if any, on mood. Because of dopamine's role in motor function, l-dopa is used for treatment of diseases like Parkinson's.

If you're interested in dopamine for regulating mood, take a look at this article:

Dopamine, Serotonin's Secret Weapon

"A smart dopamine med may do wonders for your depression or mania or mental acuity. The problem is one doesn't exist."

As far as a natural way to increase dopamine, coca leaves should do the trick

Hope this helps

[Greg]

Progress thread for ne

SlipperyPete;1173270 wrote: Hi DG,

I qualify under "or anyone" so I'll throw in my 2 pence.

In much the same way that l-tryptophan --> 5-htp --> serotonin,

tyrosine(an amino acid) --> l-dopa --> dopamine, although taking tyrosine doesn't seem to have much effect, if any, on mood. Because of dopamine's role in motor function, l-dopa is used for treatment of diseases like Parkinson's.

If you're interested in dopamine for regulating mood, take a look at this article:

Dopamine, Serotonin's Secret Weapon

"A smart dopamine med may do wonders for your depression or mania or mental acuity. The problem is one doesn't exist."

As far as a natural way to increase dopamine, coca leaves should do the trick

Hope this helps

Unfortunately I have also found little benefit from tyrosine. Dopamine is of interest to me due to having anhedonia as part of my depression, aswell as a lack of response to any of the serotonin-influencing antidepressants.

Phenylalanine is also supposed to be converted to dopamine (and norepinephrine possibly) but if tyrosine doesn't help then it would seem than phenylalanine wouldn't be likely to either, although I don't wish to deter anyone from trying it.

I remember reading that L-theanine also boosts dopamine along with GABA activity so that could conceivably help.

If I ever find a doctor willing to prescribe MAOIs I will also try these, at least once, but so many doctors in my area stick to the SSRIs and other newer drugs that only influence serotonin and/or norepinephrine. L-dopa would be another thing I would give a go, if ever prescribed. I'll post here again one day if I happen to have positive results from any of these things.

[Murphyx]

Progress thread for ne

Hmmm, not an easy one. Thanks for your experience Greg, you've tried just about everything! MAOIs may well help, have you considered buying them online? The possible interactions would be a concern for me. Pete, good find with the article. Hugely worrying that most all we know about dopamine comes from tests on rats. In the laboratory, they make rats depressed?!?!?!?!? So rat depression is the same as human depression? FFS!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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Murphyx;1173339 wrote: Hugely worrying that most all we know about dopamine comes from tests on rats.

:H:H:H

[redhead77]

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Murphyx;1173064 wrote:
I'm glad you've bought up the subject of Wellbutrin and dopamine. I've just come off bupropion, after spending around a year on it. Partly because it seems to have stopped helping me and partly because of the increasing number of chemicals I'm using that effect my poor soggy brain.

Bupropion works in the same way on dopamine as Prozac does on serotonin: it's a reuptake inhibitor. One of the reasons I/we/people have a downer on SSRIs is because of this reuptake inhibition i.e. they don't increase serotonin just allow you to reuse what you have. So we move away from that action and take drugs (5-HTP, L-Tryptophan) to actually increase the amount of serotonin available to the brain. Maybe we should be doing the same with dopamine?

I have no idea if Wellbutrin reduced my nicotine cravings. To be honest, I don't think I've had any since I started using baclofen. That hasn't stopped me smoking though.

One of the really good things about Wellbutrin is the sexual effects. It has a tendency to improve orgasm and speed up climax, which is why they often give it to Prozac users 'cos that shit is a real passion killer.

Wow! Someones been doing their homework.

Ne, when I think back, I first quit smoking using Zyban. I was in my early 20s, smoked a half a pack a day maybe. I tried nicotine replacement but like I told you before, I reject the patches. :H I don't know if they had the gum yet, but I don't do well with that either. I went on it and quit effortlessly. My boyfriend (he later became my husband), quit effortlessly too. He was already a heavy smoker at the time and nothing worked for him. I couldn't tell you when or why I started smoking again...but I did. I mentioned to my bf/husband we should go back on the Zyban to quit and he wasn't game. He said he didn't like taking something that messed with his brain to quit. It was very apparent early on, we weren't cut from the same cloth. :H I think I wanted to start smoking so I had the excuse to take it.

When I took Zyban and quit, I lost 10lbs. I felt better than I had in my life (not that I had lived long). You only take it for 3 months when quitting this way, but I casually mentioned to the doc how good I felt on this drug. He said I could stay on it if I wanted. He had other patients say the same thing. I was too embarrassed to ask to stay on it. I thought it made me seem 'weird', like I had to have an antidepressant to be normal. Oh, the ridiculousness of youth. I also was wary of antidepressants in general. I had already been on a prozac and norpramine in my teens and neither of them made me feel like this. In fact, they made me worse.

It is said bupropion was discovered for smoking cessation while treating Vietnam vets with the drug for depression. Many of them quit altogether or reduced their consumption drastically. Just a little trivia.

It is important for you to be aware that Zyban is sustained release. If you decide to take this for smoking cessation and you go the generic route, make sure you get the SR formula. I've taken bupropion on and off for the last 5 years now. Only off when prego or nursing. Or now. I stopped taking it a few weeks ago, but was only on 100mg. When I say I've always been a light smoker, it is hard to know if much of that has to do with the drug, ya know?

[redhead77]

Progress thread for ne

One other thing is bupropion is a first line nonstimulant treatment for adult ADD. This was one of the main reasons I took it. It seemed to work well...before bac.

[Doggygirl]

Progress thread for ne

Wow - thanks Pete, Greg, Murph, Red and all for your answers!!! My poor pea brain is runnin' on empty right now but I will definitely be back in the AM to take a fresh look, click the link, etc.

I took extra Tyrosine for a while not too long after I first quit drinking but I didn't like the way it made me feel. Sort of edgy or something. I LOOOOVED the way the MWO brand of GABA made me feel. I don't get that floaty feeling from it any more, but right after I quit drinking it was like a pleasant buzz almost.

Greg - I had never heard of anhedonia until one of my classes last week. Has yours improved with time on it's own?

Interesting stuff. I feel like a first grader among the college kids here.

Nighty night..and hi to Ne too!

DG

[Sammi33]

Progress thread for ne

Hi ne,

I tried to pm you about this but it seems your are full, so i will have to go public!

I just wanted to thank you so much for you pm last week. I was really confused and you really cleared things upfor me and i am so glad you did. I fear i may not have kept reading and posting otherwise, and i find it so helpful and i am learning so much. I have been in a bad place for the last week and i have been reading and learning so much going back and reading peoples threads from the start etc and i am so grateful to you because without your pm i might not have kept coming back.
:thanks::l:h

Sammi x

[beatle]

Progress thread for ne

Murphyx;1173064 wrote: Oh OK, I'll just make sure I post any offensive jokes about knobs and boobs on this thread to make sure you see them.

I'm glad you've bought up the subject of Wellbutrin and dopamine. I've just come off bupropion, after spending around a year on it. Partly because it seems to have stopped helping me and partly because of the increasing number of chemicals I'm using that effect my poor soggy brain.

Bupropion works in the same way on dopamine as Prozac does on serotonin: it's a reuptake inhibitor. One of the reasons I/we/people have a downer on SSRIs is because of this reuptake inhibition i.e. they don't increase serotonin just allow you to reuse what you have. So we move away from that action and take drugs (5-HTP, L-Tryptophan) to actually increase the amount of serotonin available to the brain. Maybe we should be doing the same with dopamine?

I have no idea if Wellbutrin reduced my nicotine cravings. To be honest, I don't think I've had any since I started using baclofen. That hasn't stopped me smoking though.

One of the really good things about Wellbutrin is the sexual effects. It has a tendency to improve orgasm and speed up climax, which is why they often give it to Prozac users 'cos that shit is a real passion killer.

L-tryptophan is an essential amino acid and not a drug. I know you know this, Murph, I'm just pointing it out for others who might not. It is a supplement, just like other amino acids acids, and can be purchased in health food stores, and probably the supplements section of larger supermarkets in the U.S. This is not the case in some European countries. It is easy to purchase online, though.

It is important to note that 5-HTP is not separate from L-tryp. An enzyme in the body converts L-tryp to 5-HTP, which converts more quickly to serotonin. 5-HTP is not an amino acid. It is merely a stepping stone in the production of serotonin and melatonin. L-tryp has many more functions than 5-HTP that are essential for the body. (I also believe 5-HTP may be hard on the liver.)

I strongly recommend people stay away from 5-HTP unless they have researched it well, and know what they are doing. It can be dangerous in some cases (esp. if taken together with SSRIs.) There are many reasons to take L-tryp instead of 5-HTP, but I won't get into them here. I see no reason in the world to take 5-HTP instead of L-tryp.