Progress thread for ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

GingerDust;1267864 wrote: What you are ignoring is the fact that the deed is never done
...
The "deed" is never done, and Dr L would agree with that since he prescribes staying at switch dose for life.
I have never, and will never, agree that one should stay on the switch dose. Ever. I've never known anyone to do it. And I know a few people who really regretted attempting it. I have never come close to my switch dose, after titrating down almost immediately afterward. That said, the side effects at 320mg were easier than the side effects at 60mg for me.
Ginger, the deed is done. It's been a year. How long will it take until I can say that for sure? I got a glass of wine at the event we went to last week. I carried it around for a while. It got in the way. It wasn't good wine. I left it on a table and never thought about it again. The deed is done. I am indifferent to alcohol.

GingerDust;1267864 wrote: If you believe everything you said above, you had no good reason to decrease your dose post-switch, and to do so was to the result of fallacious thinking. Why mess with the dose at all since you are guaranteed to live forever in indifference if you stay at the switch dose? I guess you decreased your dose for the same reason that everyone does, to escape the nasty side effects.
Why would anyone take more than they have to? The key is to find the balance. Right? I went down to 100mg shortly after I reached indifference. I started drinking more. So I went back up to 220mg. I've been down as low as 120mg and back up to 200mg. This is unrelated to how I feel about booze, though. It's related to finding a balance that allows me to live without crippling anxiety. I'm currently at 140mg. Still don't want booze. Still doing fine.

GingerDust;1267864 wrote: Some people, I would guess that majority (more than 50%?) are not able and not willing to live in a mentally and physically compromised state in order to "enjoy" indifference. At this point you must know many people whose professions and whose lives could not permanently accommodate the massive side effects of HDB POST switch. That is not a "moot" point. There is no fallacious thinking going on with those people, but there is also no denial regarding the impact of HDB. Maybe you are less impacted by side effects?

I had terrible side effects. Everyone, everyone, everyone thinks their side effects are worse than anyone else's. I did. It's not true. The side effects can be awful. But they are transient. And then they completely go away. Completely. Afternoon sleepiness? I'm unconvinced that it's related to baclofen somnolence. Go into any office after lunch and ask people if they want to take a nap. I am too busy to nap (:upset and don't. No. Side. Effects. I don't know anyone who has permanent massive side effects. I know A LOT of people who went up and down until they found the right place.

GingerDust;1267864 wrote: Even you continue to struggle with increasing dose to control cravings and then decreasing dose to improve your own ability to function, so when is the "deed" done for you? If that is your chosen path, go for it. Your characterization of the decision to get off the SE roller coaster as a product of "fallacious thinking" bothers me though.

No. That is not accurate. I do not have cravings for alcohol. I decreased my dose this time to see if I could take adderall for focus. In the meantime, I'm not taking anything, and things are going okay. So I may stay the course. If I start to feel anxious (the carousel of negative thoughts; allowing the what-ifs to run my life) then I'll titrate up a bit. But I doubt it.
The roller coaster ends, Ginger. Completely. And that is one of my main points. I understand why you made your decision, but for those that come behind that want complete freedom from the burden of craving, thoughts and wishes about alcohol, I want to be clear. It is freedom from that.

GingerDust;1267864 wrote: AB will do that too, and immediately, with no side effects, at an even cheaper cost. The trick is that you really MUST be serious about not drinking at all, and I think that scares people.
I won't talk about Antabuse. I'm really glad it's working for you all. I am beyond thrilled. This is not abstinence because I have to be--or else.

GingerDust;1267864 wrote: I think you have hit on something here I have increasingly wondered about. HDB is really not about trying to stop drinking. Baclofen is really about trying not to stop drinking. If all what you really want is only to stop drinking, there are easier ways, IMO.
I was always committed to abstinence. Until after I was indifferent! Then it was fun to drink. I got a rebel-thrill out of the fact. But I worried incessantly about what that meant, how it would end up. It is so not worth my time. And having a glass of wine means I don't feel very good the next day. I like feeling good. I don't like feeling bad. This time around I get to decide based on how I want to feel.
Now I just don't care. Drink? Why bother?

GingerDust;1267864 wrote: I'm not sure what niggling worries you mean. I doubt I will ever have a life free from worry and would not care for a life void of self-improvement for myself. That sounds boring, but maybe that means that I'm all about me.

My life is...remarkably demanding right now. A big part of it are the requirements I've set out to achieve for my own growth. Unrelated to the booze. I want to be...fulfilled. Full. Content. Exactly so it doesn't have to be all about me.

GingerDust;1267864 wrote: It is wonderful that you have found what works for you, but to say without reservation that it will work for everyone is misleading. If you said that it would work for anyone willing to live with permanent somnolence, give up their professions if need be, their sense of physical well-being if need be, sound sleep if need be, the ability to safely operate power saws if need be, etc., that might more accurately the experience of the majority as I read it. It would more accurately reflect my own experience, and I believe that I am like "most people" regarding this.

hmmm. You know that's not accurate, right? I drive. I even drove a tractor a couple of weeks ago. I have operated powertools, and perhaps more dangerous, a glue gun! :H I read, I study, I go out with friends. I sleep well, soundly, and for 6-8 hours. I am not elated, not worry-free, not without stress (more than I thought I could handle, honestly. I mean that.)
The majority of people I know are handling indifference just fine. We've got a builder, a bureaucrat, an entrepreneur or two, a student, a guru, and the list goes on...We are from all walks of life, on HDB and doing better than we ever imagined was possible because there is nothing left standing in the way. No craving, no impulse, no compulsion.
I'm not sure what your experience was. You reached indifference and titrated down? I think I know that.
You seem to me to be doing really well. I am so glad. And I wouldn't suggest, not for a minute, that you change direction. I would suggest that our paths have very different results.




GingerDust;1267864 wrote: The more weapons we have to battle the beast, the better off we all are.

That's absolutely true. But if, when I had come here, there were only people who were taking baclofen as a supplement to antabuse I would never have tried baclofen. And for those that want to try it, or are trying it, I want to share my experience. Complete freedom from booze. That's the promise, and that's my experience. It was tough. I wouldn't change it. I gave it to my husband. I hope my father will try it. I want to share what I have found. It took me 4 months. A small price to pay for what I've received in return.

But I also know that for most of us, sobriety is the absolute most important point.

That said, I believe that for many, many people, if one takes the pills, enough of them, and for long enough, one can be free from alcoholic thoughts and actions. That's it. In a nutshell.

[terryk]

Progress thread for ne

GingerDust;1267864 wrote: What you are ignoring is the fact that the deed is never done and that most people need to work for a living. They need to function in life. Even if someone, and it has happened repeatedly, takes enough time off work to get to switch, most people can not stay there indefinitely without risking jobs, risking safety, even risking lives. The "deed" is never done, and Dr L would agree with that since he prescribes staying at switch dose for life.

GingerDust;1267864 wrote:
Some people, I would guess that majority (more than 50%?) are not able and not willing to live in a mentally and physically compromised state in order to "enjoy" indifference. At this point you must know many people whose professions and whose lives could not permanently accommodate the massive side effects of HDB POST switch. That is not a "moot" point. There is no fallacious thinking going on with those people, but there is also no denial regarding the impact of HDB. Maybe you are less impacted by side effects?I think that your implication, that one cannot "work for a living" or "function in life" on high dose baclofen is misleading.

Not everyone has difficulty with side-effects during or after titration. While getting to indifference was difficult for me, I was able to hold a job and keep my life together (admittedly there were some stumbling blocks). Now, I am 99% side-effect free 1.5 years post-switch. There are also other examples of folks on MWO that live happy and healthy on hdb, though there are many reports of those who struggle with even the lower doses.

I think that it is a lot to ask of baclofen to rocket up to a switch dose in a month and expect it to undo a decade or more of alcohol dependency. Sure, it works for a few people that way, but most will have problems titrating too fast - slow and steady wins the race (then stabilize and resist the urge to keep fiddling with your dose) . I'm sure baclofen won't work for 100% of the people out there, but I do believe that it will work for the vast majority. And if not baclofen, something that works along the same chemical pathway like: CGP7930: a positive allosteric modulator of the... [CNS Drug Rev. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI


GingerDust;1267864 wrote:
If you believe everything you said above, you had no good reason to decrease your dose post-switch, and to do so was to the result of fallacious thinking. Why mess with the dose at all since you are guaranteed to live forever in indifference if you stay at the switch dose? I guess you decreased your dose for the same reason that everyone does, to escape the nasty side effects.

I think that you are wrong in your conclusion that everyone decreases their dose to escape the nasty side effects.

It is a basic tenet of medicine that one take the minimum effective dose required to achieve the desired therapeutic effect. While I do not ascribe to a threshold/maintenance dose scheme as outlined by Ameisen, I have been able to lower my dose from 280 to 240mg. It makes sense economically, physio-economically, and will be that much easier to titrate down from if I have to taper off for any reason (All of my side-effects had resolved at 280 for several months btw, before I went down)



GingerDust;1267864 wrote:
I think you have hit on something here I have increasingly wondered about. HDB is really not about trying to stop drinking. Baclofen is really about trying not to stop drinking. If all what you really want is only to stop drinking, there are easier ways, IMO.

Have you reached indifference on HDB? I think that you are wrong to draw those conclusions about what baclofen is, and isn't for. I think that they are misleading to anyone who is thinking about taking baclofen and offensive to anyone who is taking it already.

GingerDust;1267864 wrote:

AB will do that too, and immediately, with no side effects, at an even cheaper cost. The trick is that you really MUST be serious about not drinking at all, and I think that scares people.

For me, indifference on hdb makes me never, ever want to get drunk or even get buzzed. I don't think about drinking, I forget about the beer and wine in my house, and when someone offers me a drink (only very occasionally) I can have one or two, not care about it, not care about finishing it, enjoy only the taste - whatever, and leave it alone. It may not last forever, but it's working now. I think that scares people.

GingerDust;1267864 wrote:
I agree that there is no way of ferreting out percentages as far as success goes until studies are completed. I doubt the studies will conclude that HDB will work for anyone though and even doubt that HDB will be recommended for most.

That's the spirit.

-tk (still) winning.

[GingerDust]

Progress thread for ne

terryk;1267937 wrote: I think that your implication, that one cannot "work for a living" or "function in life" on high dose baclofen is misleading.
There was no "implication." I very clearly stated, "Some people, I would guess that majority (more than 50%?) are not able and not willing to live in a mentally and physically compromised state . . . "

While getting to indifference was difficult for me, I was able to hold a job and keep my life together (admittedly there were some stumbling blocks). Now, I am 99% side-effect free 1.5 years post-switch. There are also other examples of folks on MWO that live happy and healthy on hdb, though there are many reports of those who struggle with even the lower doses.

My criticism was the implication that HDB should work for anyone, when that is clearly NOT the case. As I argued, even claiming that it would work for the majority of people is a stretch.

I think that you are wrong in your conclusion that everyone decreases their dose to escape the nasty side effects.
Terry, I really to do not care to argue with "the baclofiend" mindset. I really do not. You people argue more than any other population that I have seen on MWO. I will still take exception to the idea that people who decide NOT to live with the side effects of HDB are somehow exhibiting flawed thinking. If it works for you, good. I'm happy for you. To say that it works for everyone or should work for anyone is flat wrong.

Have you reached indifference on HDB?
Yes, but there is no way I live in that condition or even spend several months there. I really have no desire to live like that at all. Your experience is different. Good for you.

I think that you are wrong to draw those conclusions about what baclofen is, and isn't for.

If you are referring to what I said about baclofen not really being about quitting drinking, it followed my sentence about antabuse, which is all about not drinking, and quoted Ne's statement that she can drink or not, which is moderation.

I think that they are misleading to anyone who is thinking about taking baclofen and offensive to anyone who is taking it already.

I certainly did not intend to offend anyone. I am not worried about misleading people who might be thinking about trying baclofen. The truth is that you are much more likely to mislead them than I am. I am not trying to defend baclofen, I am not trying to sell anyone on the idea, nor am I attacking it or trying to dissuade anyone from taking it. I did dare to speak majority experience vs. the idea that it will work for everyone. And that was enough to upset you.

I can have one or two, not care about it, not care about finishing it, enjoy only the taste - whatever, and leave it alone. It may not last forever, but it's working now. I think that scares people.

I disagree. I think what scares most people off of baclofen is the side effects. I think there is a VERY substantial history on MWO to prove it. But I am very happy that it has worked out so well for you.

That's the spirit.

This was in response to my prediction of the outcome of a scientific study? All the cheers and/or boos in the world are not going to change the results. They are going to be whatever they are going to be, regardless of what either of us says or believes. I have no problem saying that when the results are out, HDB protocol will not be recommended for most people, for all of the reasons I stated in my post. Saying so is not hurting anybody or doing any kind of damage to anyone, anywhere. For me, it is as simple as telling the truth.

Edited to add: I was not kidding that I don't care to argue about this, or anything else really. If you want to carry on the argument, you'll have to do without me.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Can we just dial it back a notch for the rest of the day?
I'd like to give this some thought, and to respond, without waking to a complete kerfuffle based on a response to a (several, actually) post that does not exist anymore. It was someone who had some concerns, much like the ones you expressed, Ginger. Only they were expressed very differently.

Gimme a minute. No brawls. We are ALL sick of them.

[terryk]

Progress thread for ne

GingerDust;1268222 wrote: There was no "implication." I very clearly stated, "Some people, I would guess that majority (more than 50%?) are not able and not willing to live in a mentally and physically compromised state . . . "

I was being gracious. My mistake. You've made an assertion, that baclofen causes people to live in a mentally and physically compromised state that is intolerable by the majority (more than 50%?) of people. What is this based on? *Your* own (short) experience with the medication and *your* estimation and interpretation of self-reports here on MWO?

Even though it's a small sample size, I admit there are many, many reports of struggles with side-effects. Some of those reports are my own and I am *keenly* aware of the side-effects that hdb can cause.

It has never been my belief or position that baclofen doesn't cause side-effects or that it will work for everyone. Medical literature (one example) discusses issues due to side-effects in high-dose baclofen therapy, but states that, overall, hdb is well tolerated in clinical studies.

I maintain that my success with baclofen has relied on: 1) quality pharmaceutical grade baclofen, 2) slow titration 3)equal dosing on an even schedule (4 doses-7a/1p/7p/12a) 4) abstaining from drinking while titrating 5)maintaining a dosage level until side effects disappear and sticking at or close to that dosage after the switch.

I know that following those guidelines won't solve everyone's titration problems, but I see so many reports of rapid and erratic dosing while people are still vigorously drinking that I can't help but wonder if some of that is to blame. Dubious, online purchased baclofen may be a factor as well (I had some issues with 4RX.com brand Fexobac) and racemic baclofen itself maybe to blame as the inactive (S) enantiomer may very well be responsible for presentation of side effects entirely (arbaclofen is one answer to this problem).

I'll say it again, I don't think that baclofen will work for everyone and every type of problem drinker. But I bet that it will work on most (or a very similar drug that works on the same chemical pathway).

Lastly, there is a fair contingent of MWO'ers (plus some others) that I know and keep in touch with that are happy, healthy, and side-effect free (or mostly side-effect free) on hdb. Many of them get better and stay away from here and I don't blame them. I look at them, I look at my experience, I read MWO, I read the medical literature, I enjoy my new life and indifference to alcohol and I see a much brighter picture than you do when I look at baclofen and the future of curing alcohol addiction.

GingerDust;1268222 wrote:
Terry, I really to do not care to argue with "the baclofiend" mindset. I really do not. You people argue more than any other population that I have seen on MWO. I will still take exception to the idea that people who decide NOT to live with the side effects of HDB are somehow exhibiting flawed thinking. If it works for you, good. I'm happy for you. To say that it works for everyone or should work for anyone is flat wrong.

"Baclofiend?" That's a good one. "You people?" Seriously? Nothing proves a point like name calling, and it says a lot about your ability to engage in civil, meaningful dialog.

-tk

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

hmmm.
And so here we are once again.

I would like to clarify on two points for the official record.

Ne/Neva Eva;1267713 wrote: I just wonder about the fallacy inherent in such thinking. (To continue to drink against one's will, risking life/limb/property/family/etc. for the long term, versus making the decision to opt out for a short time and get the job done once and for all. It confuses me that the choice isn't an easy one. But I understand, as I doubted it every step of the way.)

This does not imply that there are not other ways out. It states that there are people who give up, choose to continue drinking, in spite of the long term consequences.

I do not crave alcohol. I change my baclofen dose because I don't want to take more medication than I need to take to be well.

In the last ten weeks I have consumed two sips of wine at a cocktail party, a beer on New Years Eve, and I honestly can't remember before that, but I think it was in November. Maybe October. I had a dinner party. My guests drank good wine all evening and finished several bottles. I had a glass with dinner. Ed had a beer he didn't finish. Oh. And actually, Ed and I got a bottle of wine to have with dinner in January. We forgot to drink it. Really. When we did finally open it, we each had a glass and then corked it. It sat in the cabinet for a month and I finally put it in some soup. Less than 20 ounces of alcohol in maybe three months...

Baclofen works. Like nothing else.

The deed is done. I don't ever drink against my will anymore. At all. Ever.

[GingerDust]

Progress thread for ne

I responded to your PM, Ne. I do not really want to have this discussion anyway. I have been really happy to participate in a peaceful, balanced meds forum and would be delighted to see it stay peaceful and balanced.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

It is impossible to argue with chaos by way of reason. I am loathe to get involved in more drama.
I think people underestimate my ambivalence. So let me be perfectly clear.

• I. Do. Not. Care. about any of this stuff with Bill, or Gingerdust, or anything else unrelated to sharing my experience and finding the truth. I don't. I have no personal grudge, much less vendetta. I have no interest in whether or not anyone takes baclofen. Much less what else they do, or how they do it. I have said this in so many ways, so many times, that I am sure that it will again be misunderstood or ignored.
• The people I met here gave me the courage to see baclofen through to the end. I am compelled to repay that by offering the same to people who are silently suffering.Everything else is semantics, or misinformation. Or kerfuffle.

Baclofen has completely removed alcohol as a source of anything (good or bad) in my life. I am completely and totally indifferent to it. My life and the lives of my loved ones have been completely transformed because after 20 years of trying I am finally free of addiction. To not pay it forward is a travesty and I cannot bear that karma/guilt/responsibility.

Baclofen works. Miraculously well.

[Road to Recovery]

Progress thread for ne

GingerDust;1267864 wrote: What you are ignoring is the fact that the deed is never done and that most people need to work for a living. They need to function in life. Even if someone, and it has happened repeatedly, takes enough time off work to get to switch, most people can not stay there indefinitely without risking jobs, risking safety, even risking lives. The "deed" is never done, and Dr L would agree with that since he prescribes staying at switch dose for life.


If you believe everything you said above, you had no good reason to decrease your dose post-switch, and to do so was to the result of fallacious thinking. Why mess with the dose at all since you are guaranteed to live forever in indifference if you stay at the switch dose? I guess you decreased your dose for the same reason that everyone does, to escape the nasty side effects.

Some people, I would guess that majority (more than 50%?) are not able and not willing to live in a mentally and physically compromised state in order to "enjoy" indifference. .

Just so we are clear - being an alcoholic - You ARE living in a mentally and physically comprimised state. People who are alcoholics ARE risking jobs, risking safety and risking lives. Let's not pretend that it's better to drink yourself to death and risk your job; peoples safety and lives, is better than taking a few months and changing all that. Honestly I don't understand that logic.
Also, I have reached indifference - a little over 2 years now, and about 15 months of that is after titrating down off bac.

[Pronoia2012]

Progress thread for ne

Ne, you write exceptionally well, you've accomplished much, and you went through a lot of SEs to get to where you are.
I get what Ginger said, though. SEs can impair skills even more than AL. That's a scary thing when you can't take a few months off or fake functioning well enough to get through.
Therein is the quandary.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Pronoia2012;1271049 wrote: Ne, you write exceptionally well, you've accomplished much, and you went through a lot of SEs to get to where you are.
I get what Ginger said, though. SEs can impair skills even more than AL. That's a scary thing when you can't take a few months off or fake functioning well enough to get through.
Therein is the quandary.

Hi, Pro. Thanks for the compliments.

I completely understand your fears about it. I'm not sure specifically what you are dealing with, so it's hard to answer specifically.
I couldn't, and didn't, take time off. Through it all, I worked. Although my job was well suited to what I was going through. There's another really important thing, though, in terms of my experience. I was a couple of months into it when I started to 'wake up' to the fact that the reality I was so worried about losing (my job, my husband, comfort and stability) wasn't at all what I wanted. I started to see the promise and realized that the only thing that mattered was getting rid of the booze-burden. If that's not the case, I would imagine the decision to quickly keep going up would be a problem. (I did lose my job. But only after indifference. Related directly to the fact that I'd had enough! When I lost it, I managed the exit on my terms, and I've never regretted it or looked back. yay!)

If the SEs are unmanageable, and you want complete freedom from alcohol, I think that the crux of it is managing SEs. Right? There are a couple of things that are easy answers. Booze exacerbates SEs. It's a sad truth. Going up in small increments,taking the medication more often, eating well and taking care of oneself all help. Guarding your sleep! That would be at the top of my list. And some sort of thought control. I don't really know of anyone who made it all the way without support from people who get it, either. (Though I wouldn't! If they're not posting, they wouldn't necessarily post! Though I did used to hear from people pretty regularly about just that.)

I think that if I had to do it again, wasn't desperate to be done, and didn't want the jump start into a new direction, I would have done a couple of things very differently. I would have gone up much more slowly, given up the booze sooner, and taken other approaches/medications to deal with the SEs. (Most importantly exercise and meditation or prayer or something.)

I saw on the other thread that you went from 80mg back down to 60mg. That's a good thing. There are several people who are using LDB...I can't think of any reason why it would be any different starting from that place and going up really slowly if one wants indifference. It takes what it takes. So it takes a year? okay.

I can promise you this: When the deed is done, it's done. It takes time, even after indifference. But that's it. It's not a matter of moderation or abstinence. It's not a matter of resisting craving or desire. When the craving and desire are gone, there is no need to moderate. I don't want to drink! It's so simple that it is not really possible to describe to someone who hasn't experienced it.

Last time I got a glass of wine was at the shindig I went to a couple of weeks ago. We were there for about an hour when we were cornered by some people Ed knows from work. I got a glass of wine because, well, I was bored and self-conscious and didn't know what to do with my hands. (Lame, I know. Whatever.) I had a couple of sips. It was not good wine. We moved on. Got some finger food. I couldn't carry it all. So I left the wine at our table. Forgot about it. Actually, I never thought about it. It wasn't a matter of forgetting. Paid $6 for a thimble of lousy wine. Came home, where we actually have a liquor/wine cabinet for the first time ever and never thought about it. Haven't thought about wanting/having a drink since then.
That's the rather insignificant story of what indifference is. It's insignificant.

And lest you think it's just me, there's Ed. Very few SEs all the way up to 300mg, simply because we managed (together) what came up. Worked 80+ hours a week at the absolute most stressful time in his career. (I can't describe the stress. It was unreal.) He goes out with the boys from work very occasionally. Last time we joked after the fact because he ordered a third beer, realized he was exhausted and left it on the bar. He felt like crap and
caught hell for being an old man the next day. Needless to say, he's in better shape (in general) then the knuckleheads who party.

I don't share these stories to 'convince' you, or whatever. Getting sober is the important part. The rest? That's just the gift that baclofen brings to the table that nothing else does.

Take care, Pro.

(I'm not going to address that other post just yet. For many, many reasons. )

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Sorry, Pro. Here's the short version:

Go slow.
Manage the SEs. Sometimes this means managing life around the SEs. Sometimes it means managing SEs around life. I only missed one event--my dad's birthday--when I titrated up from 20mg to 60mg in a week while on vacation and drinking like a fish. Fair to say I missed more work from hangovers than from bac.
At some point(s) you're going to have to put your head down and power on. Just like you (presumably) do when you're hungover.
Bottom line? It's a matter of degrees, isn't it? On a scale of 1-10 (terrible to great) my life/disease was about a 4. Job, husband, home I love and it was still a secret from all but a very few people. But year by year I was giving up pieces. Here a friend or three. There, any hope of doing anything about anything....

Like the untreated diabetic, or something. Oops! There goes an eye! Now it's a foot! And gout/obesity/isolation...Whatever. Life revolved around the thing that was killing me. sloooooowly enough that I could watch it. If that wasn't where I was, and if there hadn't been anything but crazy drama in the one place I found reliable info, I don't know that I would've pushed through.

[Bruunhilde]

Progress thread for ne

I've been on baclofen for a year at about 50mg/day for the last 6 months, with 10mg higher or lower on rare occasions.

Sometimes changing the dose affects me, sometimes not.

I went up ten mgs last night to help me avoid drinking while I was trying to be alcohol free.

Today I am such a zombie, that I can't drive. And my blood pressure is higher, which might account for my headache or might not. Much like a super duper hangover, the type I didn't have every day.

Grommet, are you still around? How's your bp? Anyone else? I'd like to see if hypertension is one of those side effects that no one but two of us has discussed, or if it does affect more than just the two of us.

[spacebebe01]

Progress thread for ne

Since Ive been taking LDB at first when I was taking 30mg I was getting awful headaches which were lasting most of the day, I went down to 20 then 10 and then went back up to around 40mg now and Im not getting any effects that I notice, I have also had 50mg on a bad day and been ok.

[Bruunhilde]

Progress thread for ne

Hi Space.

When I first used baclofen, I had a hellofa time titrating from 30 on up. Once I got to 80mg and realized I had to go back down due to hypertension, I went to 40mg and have no sides (except for hypertension) fluctuating it a tad. However, sometimes it affects me more than other times. Right now I'm sick, so that may be part of the issue. Sorta like Rangiatea's experience on his/her recent thread.

It used to be frequently said on MWO that if you weren't drinking, you could probably manage side effects better and I thought if I wasn't drinking, I could go up with the bac. Looks like that's not going to work for me. I'm not a typical case, but then, is anyone?

Its funny how building tolerance seems to change the side effects. Mostly diminishing them. Or so it seems.