Progress thread for ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Bruun, I can't say what Grommet is doing now, but you might PM him and get an answer. I'm pretty sure he gets those via email and has always answered mine. Last post he said that it wasn't affecting his bp this time around, but I'm pretty sure he didn't have high bp to start with.
I'm not sure if you're asking for thoughts about going up again and/or how to manage that, so I'll leave it for now.

As you noted, adjusting to the bac in your system is the key to managing SEs, which is why I think it's so important to take the slow/steady approach for those of us that have serious SEs. If I'd been willing to give up the booze earlier, and take longer to get to indifference, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have suffered so much. (And take it regularly in regular incremental increases...blah, blah.) At least not until the higher doses. (I'm not sure one can avoid SEs at the higher doses, though they were easier for me at 320mg than 260mg. Weird, but true.) The SEs are also very dose dependent. So what happens at one level is not likely to keep happening, except insomnia/somnolence at the higher doses. (I just note these things for others should they happen by, I know you know this stuff, Bruun.)

Whatever, and however, it seems as though you're making progress and I'm heartened to read it!

On a personal note, I have been bruised and abused by school this week. Which is both fun and painful. When I was a drunk, I longed for intellectual stimulation and challenging deadlines. (My job did not provide either of these. Not that I could've done a job that did!) My glasses are bent. I have aches and pains, and my eyes are exhausted. Who knew studying could be so...physical! :H Bodes well for a demanding next couple of years. I'm glad I feel (mostly) up for the challenge.
...
I had more to say, but I think I've used up my word-quota and I'm tongue-tied! It's just so dang quiet around here, I had to pop in and say good morning. Good morning!

Peace out, peeps!

[spacebebe01]

Progress thread for ne

Just a pop in to say hello, your right Ne it is way too quiet on here whats going on, has everyone had their electricity cut off? Im not sure if I want to ask whats been going on in your school:H

[windycitylady]

Progress thread for ne

Ne, are you comfortable saying what you're going to school for? I understand if not, but I'm curious. I need to go back myself.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Craziness and animosity leads to silence, Space. God knows I've had enough of it that it makes it painful to check in!

I'm doing the prereqs for an RN degree, Windy. Or rather, I was. I'm not sure now. It looks as though I'm well on my way and vested/invested enough to jump straight into a BS (:H still makes me laugh) degree. My ultimate goal is not nursing, however. It was/is a means to an end. One of them being some sort of lifelong financial stability to get me out of what I was in. (Service work. I know you know!) And the other is that...well, this whole addiction/reaching out/bac thing is a bit of a passion...I am MUCH more interested in communication than in actual nursing. Particularly since there is a small push (tiny, but it's there!) to get evidenced-based treatment into substance abuse treatment. And one of the big breakdowns is communication... But there's also the IT thing, and that is both lucrative and fascinating, too.

Basically I'm juggling all three atm, and know that it will lead to a more clear picture as time passes. But the midterms were hell! (Midterms, Space, are exams held mid-semester. It's what I just finished.) And it's going well! Still on track to make my (personal) goal, though I've given up quite a few of my other goals for it--exercise. food. walking the dog. talking on the phone. shaving my legs. So be it. It's temporary.

[spacebebe01]

Progress thread for ne

I think you definately have the dedication and passion to succeed Ne. We also have terms here, but we dont have semesters.

[windycitylady]

Progress thread for ne

Good for you, Ne, for understanding that the answer will come to you when it will. I too need SOME kind of career with financial stability. And that I'm not embarassed of. My goal for a while has been ultrasound technician. We'll see. The programs are pretty competitive, and they tend to frown on criminal backgrounds.
Anyhow, congrats. Prereqs for RN, I know that shit's not easy.
After reading your post my mind flashed on an image of you working in a substance abuse treament center and secretly slipping patients Dr. L's number. Unlikely, but...
I shave my legs rarely enough that I make BF touch them and praise me when I do. And I don't have anything going on.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

:H
Ed was very enamored of the smooth legs. It was kinda embarrassing when he noticed the underarms...How does he notice that and not $300 worth of hair work at the salon??? (Not that that's happening anymore!)

You would be AMAZED at how easy it is to go back to school, Windy, if you decide to explore that. Especially in a technical program in health care. I am not kidding when I tell you that my tuition was completely covered, and some of the expenses too. (Some of this was in tax returns. But much of it was in ridiculously low interest loans and grants.)

When I started out the process I thought I'd end up in substance abuse treatment. I've done quite a bit of research about that arena for my English class assignments. I'm pretty clear that the system is so broken that I wouldn't last a minute there. In the last research essay the reviewer summed up the industry in this way:

“[t]he negative correlation between scientific evidence and treatment-as-usual. . .could hardly be larger if one intentionally constructed treatment programs from those approaches with the least evidence of efficacy”

And he's a doctor who runs a substance abuse hospital at a major university that trains doctors in substance abuse treatment. He calls current treatment models "folk wisdom."

I'm going to have to figure out a way to positively channel my rage/outrage long before I step into that arena. And that is going to take a good bit more healing.

BTW, the rest. biz is so incredibly difficult that other jobs are relatively easy in comparison. At least that's been my experience. (Well, anything that doesn't require sitting at a desk in an office. That would suck for me.)

Hope it's a good day, everybody!

[windycitylady]

Progress thread for ne

Hey, Ne!
I wrote a post here last night that I was very satisfied with then immediatley proceeded to close the browser without actually posting it. Dammit.
I have somethings to say though, and would like to continue this conversation, if that's ok with you.
However, I just wrote a goddamned novel on another thread, and my fingers are going to fall off if I continue to type any longer on this phone.
Can I pop by in the next day or so and pick up this train of thought again?
I'm thinking your weather is probably simillar to ours today, and if it is, I hope you're not stuck inside with a pile of books. It's absofuckinglutley gorgeous outside.
BTW, I'm shaving my legs today. It's been a couple weeks, why not?

[Doggygirl]

Progress thread for ne

Ne - my understanding is that the push for evidence based treatments is HUGE. If people want 1) government payments and/or 2) insurance payments, then they gotta get on the train.

The folks at SMART Recovery were calling for volunteers for a clinical trial not too long ago. I don't know for sure what they are up to with that, but I suspect possibly an "evidence base." It's a really really interesting time in this field right now. (hint hint!)

Midterm week is KILLING ME!!!! :nutso: I just HAD to take FIVE classes in my major because......because........why was that again?????

OK - off to school for midterm #3!

DG

[spacebebe01]

Progress thread for ne

You all make me feel exhausted with how much studying you do, theres no way I could do it, I have tried in the past at education but dropped out, through drinking I think. now I just make the excuse that Im too old.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Space, I hear ya'. My brother reminded me that I always loved school. I just hated going to school. Plus, getting a degree is on my list. Any degree. It's not exactly healthy...but I want the damn piece of paper that says I did it.

Windy, bummer. And sure.

DG, I know. It's pretty amazing what's happening related to EBT. It's also kind of heart-breaking. There still aren't ANY protocols, even in the states (Oregon) where practicing EBT is going to be necessary to get paid. In other words, they can say they're putting in place actual rational, productive treatment, but there isn't any regulation that determines what that is, and they still don't have to quantify the results. Of anything. AND to date, 12 step programs are still considered the standard. AND there are too few physicians. So even if there were programs willing to treat the disease with actual medication, there isn't anyone to do it/follow up. Much less... Oh, blah, blah, blah. Sorry.

Have you checked out what's going on in Portugal? It's very cool. More to you this morning...

I am totally clear that until (and if, which I doubt) I get my rage/outrage in check about the industry I'll have to stay out of it. But I'm too clever to say never, because I know if I do that's exactly where I'll end up. (I just hope I'm the one administering not receiving. )

Ed and I are meeting with bankers and real estate people today. Lemme tell you, it's pushing all of my buttons. All of them. Simultaneously. Like little electric shocks. It's been all I could do to not write on here every other hour about every little emotion. Thing is, I think it's pretty normal. (Not sure. If that's true, how the hell does anyone actually OWN a home? :H) Ed, on the other hand, is taking it all in stride. It's very irritating. Our conversations go something like this: Me, "I don't wanna live in the suburbs." Him, "okay. We won't." Me, "But the prices and the commute and the taxes are so much better." Him, "So. We don't want to live there." Me, "hmmmm. Feck off."

My home is my very identity. That's not going to change, no matter how much meditation I do. But I don't know who I'm going to be in a month. Or a year. Much less 5++. And that IS something that most people know when they're 42. I've changed so much in the last year and a half. The what-ifs floor me. Literally. I spent most of yesterday pinned by gravity to whatever I was laying on. And I was prone for about 10 hours.
I've also got a sugar-hangover that I will likely have again tomorrow, based on my pre-dawn craving for MnMs...

So cross your fingers or say a prayer or send some calming vibes my way, if you don't mind.

Hope it's a good day everybody!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Oh, yeah. I did the same silly thing, DG. As though waiting for 20 years to actually return to school means I have to hurry up and get it done NOW! aaargh. Half way there, though. And you are too, about. Hang in!!!

Also, I wanted to note that I've gone down to 140mg. I have wondered if returning to the worst-case-scenario thoughts and the 'what-ifs' from hell is related not just to circumstances, but also to lack o' bac. I'm going to sit tight and see how I feel in a week or two before going back up, or down more.

And for the official record, I am not craving, don't want to escape, and have had a total of about 2oz of wine in 3+ months. The last time I drank more than that was on NYE. I had a whole beer. Just in case you were wondering.

[windycitylady]

Progress thread for ne

Ne, is KatieSmiles the nal person you're thinking of?
And I do have more to say about school and attitudes in substance abuse treatment.
And no time.
Be back soon.

[RedThread12]

Progress thread for ne

Oh, my Gord. He's bac.

Consider this, Dullboy (which, by the way, is a brilliant moniker for you, at this point). You are harming and not helping . . . anyone, in any way.

Can we help you? If so, let us know how. If no, please, just give us a break.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Hi, MWO friends and family.

A quick (not brief!) update because I'd like to keep track here.

I am down to 130mg from 200mg about 5 weeks ago. My inability to follow a titration schedule strikes again! (Going down 10mg/week was my goal. I have actually missed doses every week, too. So on some days I think I've taken as little as 80mg!)

I'm still not having any cravings for alcohol, at all, ever. I thought I did. But I didn't. Funny story, but I won't belabor the point right now. I will tell you that I shared it with my therapist, a woman who still doesn't quite 'get it' and she agreed that it's a miracle. I think that she is ready to confirm that sobriety with baclofen is a different thing altogether. I won't belabor that point either!

My biggest concerns going down aren't related to booze. Baclofen, based on what I've seen here, has some sort of long term effect when taken for a while. I've seen it in people who take low doses, too. Many of them just continue to not want to drink for a while...

My biggest concerns have to do with increasing anxiety and the onset of depression. Increasing anxiety will take me back to the bottle eventually, and I'm not managing it very well with my other life choices (exercise, nutrition, meditation, group support). I can tell my irrational fears are a little more active. (What if Ed dies! Is Ed dead or is he sleeping? The what-ifs are such a pain in the arse.)

If baclofen is an effective antidepressant, and it is for me, then going down suddenly or erratically could bring that on. I HATE being depressed! Stupid statement, right? Maybe not. I have identified that (for me) being depressed continues the cycle of...lacking and wanting. Given a set of circumstances, I will regret, resent, desire that which I do/don't have when my mind is in a bad place. Given the same set of circumstances when I'm managing my mental health and I will find that there are choices and that they can be liberating, awesome, at the very worst simple challenges to overcome. This sounds Pollyanna and like bullshit, I know. But it's not. It's my truth.

200 down to 130 has been uninteresting. I'm sweating through the sheets again. Related to the change in seasons, I know, but also there is something about baclofen and I soak the bed. I've put extra layers on it so that I can simply strip those and wash 'em rather than change the whole bed.

I'm probably going to have a drink sometime soon to see how it makes me feel the next day. My reasoning is sane, I think. I want to KNOW for sure that I don't have the desire to manage/medicate my stress/anxiety with booze. Ever again. If I wake up with the thought that it might be fun to do again, if it causes any sort of hint of desire to repeat, I'm going up a little bit with baclofen and will go back down in a month or two. But I don't think this will happen.

As far as my thoughts are concerned, I also have a bit more regret now than I did. It's directly related to living my entire adult life under the yoke of addiction. I definitely don't have time for that tentacle of the disease. (What to call it? Depression? Anxiety? Who knows...) Too much to do for the future to worry about the stuff already passed.

Ed and I are buying a house. Which is...profoundly amazing given where we were a year ago, both financially and emotionally. (Broke. Headed for divorce. I was fired in April. He was fired in July. He got a job within two weeks, I went back to school. We've been living off of one income since then.) (Oh. And we're rather madly in love. Probably for the first time. )

We found a house we really like. It is fraught with stuff related to the economy, etc. I am pretty sure that we'll get it, if we continue to want it, because the universe says yes. (That's a truth for all of us. How cool is that?!)
School is also going really well, against all odds and expectations.
I'm making new friends, which is exciting and nerve wracking. (Does s/he like me? omg, did I say something stupid??? lol) While it's not the support system related to booze-related stuff I was looking for, it's still support! I'm not going to go to AA now. Maybe never. I didn't have to relive painful memories, deal with old resentments, or any of the other drama created in the 12 steps. Instead I've taken a course of action that allows me to change my thoughts and behavior for the future. Without shame and regret creating my thoughts and decisions I am able to be...better. Reliving that old stuff sounds a lot like extending the side effects of PTSD to me, and that can't be good. (Modern therapy in most of it's guises backs this up. Even people who study/practice hypnosis are rethinking the model of regression etc.!)

If it all sounds too good to be true, I know!!! I still hold my breath every now and then and wait for the other shoe to drop. And worry a great deal that the heights from where it will come will create a crater bigger than anything I can crawl out of. But we've weathered a death, serious financial changes, moving, buying a house, a year's worth of holiday celebrations, family drama and friend crises, all without life-destroying consequences. I think it's fair to say this is my new life and I'll be able to handle what comes.

I do believe that much of this can be achieved without baclofen, of course. It IS contingent on sobriety, however. (The beautiful antabuse/nal thread is proof of that.) However, I also know that baclofen does what it does in a way that nothing else can...It offers complete cessation of craving and addiction. It is also likely that it does this in a way that helps the disorder so fundamentally and profoundly that one is better, whole, completely well, after one reaches indifference. This is true for me, and for my husband. It's contingent, though, on a couple of important things.

If you're thinking about baclofen, plan on a long-ish, slow-ish titration up, and down. Some side effects and some inconveniences. They shouldn't be life altering, and can absolutely be managed. (EDIT: In many cases. Not all. This is not miracle-pill. It's medicine.)

If you take it erratically, inconsistently, or dramatically the results will be erratic, inconsistent, and dramatic. Going up or coming down. That's pretty much a guarantee.

If you walk into it with the understanding that flexibility is important and that you will have to manage life under a completely different set of circumstances, then you'll have a better chance at reaching indifference.

I wish I'd been more clear about all of that when I started!

Cheers, everyone! Hope it's a good day.