Progress thread for ne

[spacebebe01]

Progress thread for ne

ok so the appartment is temporary, is it a money saving thing? I know it might make perfect sense but I can also understand that you dont want to. Also moving can be very stressful and now you are going to be moving twice. hmmmm But it is a good idea, maybe.

I dont know anything about the Cassander thing.

I keep on editing here, dont know why, yes I do its because I dont know about the situation. Do what you feel is best to be done Ne, I suppose it depends also on who could get upset, if its a vulnerable person, a newcomer or someone struggling for example then dont do it. Otherwise do so, I think you know what to do.

I tried to pm you but couldnt

[redhead77]

Progress thread for ne

Ne/Neva Eva;1316039 wrote:
By monastic I mean the kind of monk that would have a couple of computers, an iPod or two, smart phones, a coffee maker, lots of makeup, etc...

I woke up with the certainty that I needed to finally follow up on some pretty volatile posts that were posted here and on the Anxiety thread created by Cassander. This is related to baclofen efficacy, baclo-fiendishness, and whether or not we who take HDB are both wrong and pushers of a drug to the exclusion of all else.

Part of the reason I feel as though I need to follow up is that some time ago I received a PM asking why I hadn't. And then recently I received a PM from a new person who was very confused by it.

I really don't want to, because I have no interest in creating kerfuffle, much less becoming involved in a brawl. I realize, though, that the lack of response may be misconstrued as acceptance. Or worse, the perception that the original posts were true and correct. This is not the case at all. And in point of fact, there was explicit agreement among some of us--off of the public forum--that we not respond in order to avoid the ensuing drama. We also agreed that the person who posted the information was very new in sobriety, and that responding aggressively might jeopardize that or hurt someone's feelings badly enough that the person would not find support here.
One of our members disagreed with this so vehemently that he left and hasn't been back since. He felt that lack of support for him was evident. But he's not an alcoholic, and while I care for him, this is a til-death-do-us-part-struggle for so many of us...I didn't think it was the wrong decision.

It's really a quandary for me.

Regarding your monastic living...how about shoes? Are a decent amount of shoes allowed?

Hi Ne! It's been a while since I've visited your thread. It's not that I don't read it, as I'm sure you know. I just not always sure what to comment on, and before I know it, it moves on to the next topic. For example, I have some thoughts on your cousin situation but I've been waiting to gather more info before I piped in. I wanted to know more about your cousin. Does he have any diagnosed psychiatric illnesses (I say diagnosed, because we know that many people self medicate undiagnosed psychiatric illnesses with alcohol) and if so, does he take his meds? Any other health conditions? Any criminal background that's not related to his substance abuse? You know, just a couple of things like that. Does your new apartment allow you the space to have him there? If not, maybe the powers that be already provided what you needed for your dilemma.

I'm glad you brought up the Cassander thing. I feel that I should have written something when it happened. I didn't agree with the whole thing, it felt like a witch hunt to me. But my lack of response is complicated. Firstly, I believe something I'd written in a PM was mentioned there. I'd written this PM shortly after I'd come down on bac, and was disgruntled at what was happening to my body and my drinking. I like all three people who were involved, and I tend to be diplomatic (to the extreme). I abhor drama and conflict, especially in my 'support group', and I don't have the time or emotional energy to get involved in it for the most part. I don't even have the time to post here as much as I'd like to in general. So I remained quiet. It bothers me to this day.

[spacebebe01]

Progress thread for ne

After wasting the evening pondering on your post Ne I think my last reply was wrong, because irs human nature I suppose and I cant help but be nosey I have spent hours looking through old posts with cassander in and cant actually find what you are on about, but instead found pages and pages and pages of bickering, none of then involving cassander!
So I would suggest you to either,... post what you have got to say on the boards, use quotes and make it all visible,.... or sort it out off the boards in pm ... or forget it. For people who wernt involved or maybe here at the time but didnt notice (me) or newbies its a wind up when its things being hinted at. To drop the bomb or to keep hold of it.

Yes I do think its important to air your views but Im not quite sure why you want to bring it up now. Red you said that it bothers you that you remained quite at the time, but thats life, it happens all the time when we think we should have acted differently, or if we could go back and change things, but we cant.

[GingerDust]

Progress thread for ne

Space, the argument wasn't worth the space it took up. I regret being a part of it. One person got surprisingly nasty, and I dropped out of the discussion (not that it ended up being a "discussion" anyway). Really, it's not worth unhappiness. As I told you in PM, I'm taking a break from MYO for reasons unrelated to that. So, I hope whoever has something to say just says it, everybody gets whatever vent out that they need, and the discussion goes back to being about how to get well. That whole getting well thing is something I'm thinking about a lot lately. It should be the focus of recovery talk too.

With that, I really am taking a break for a while. I hope everyone jams in the meantime.

[RedThread12]

Progress thread for ne

Oh, Ne. I've really been trying to stay focused on all of the unbelievable stuff on my own life, knowing that you would make the right choices regarding your cousin, with or without me chiming in. And in the spirit of full disclosure, I haven't read much of the past couple of pages, so I don't know who became kefluffled, nor why. And ya' know, any upset is always the business of the upsettee.

HOWEVER: reading a bit of your story about your cousin lands very, very close to my heart/mind (citta, but kinda' hard to just drop that word into any ole' conversation). My mother's brother had bone cancer of some kind when he was quite young, and, possibly due to copious amounts of morphine when he was young, and possibly because it's just who he was, grew up to be a drug-addict and alcoholic. Chronic. Institutionalized in all possible ways - prisons, asylums. So my childhood is fully embedded with both the honor and the horror of a brilliant man who also was, literally, at times, homeless.

He took his life via a gun in his mouth in his mid-fifties, I think it was. Yet one the most incredible blessings of my life was watching my mother AND my father do everything in their capacity to care for him. I remember phone calls in the middle of the night, after which my father would drive to wherever my uncle was being held in jail, to bring him to our house. During one of his "good" periods, he fathered 2 incredible sons - my cousins. My elder cousin lost his battle with brain cancer late last year, but the younger one is still a vital force in our family, and his daughter came, just last weekend, to my nephew's wedding, carrying in her belly the 7 1/2 month old grandson of my brilliant, blighted uncle.

I salute your choice to honor blood over behavior. I know that my own life would be far less rich if my mother had capitulated to the "doctors" advice to keep my uncle away from my sister and me, and let him find his way on his own. My uncle was my favorite play-mate, during those times when he came to stay in our home. I can only now appreciate what a challenge it was for my mother. And what a gift my father offered to her by not making judgements or demands about her brother.

I will read back a bit and find out if what I'm responding to is relevant, at all. But I hope it is, in the way of acknowledging you and Ed for making room for a reality that you had not f'in idea about. My position is that, of course, doing something is so much richer than doing nothing. You'll know if it's time to do something else. He will, too. But, wow. Again, just wow. Ain't this an amazing omniverse? Of course, I wish you all, all the best. But I already know that that is what is happening. With no preference regarding the outcome, eh'? Onward!!!!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Manomanoman, RedT. Thanks.
The thing about my cousin is this: I do not know how to (successfully) help people. I'm not there yet. It is, to be honest, in the top three of my goals. To be of...help.
But what I absolutely totally in my heart-of-hearts know is that if I listen then I'll do what I can and that's what I've got.
Michelle's suicide was really a blow. Partly because it seemed inevitable, honestly. I know how that sounds. Can you imagine how it feels? But I also know with absolute certainty that if she'd had appropriate medical care she'd be alive today. So even though my therapist--via the universe, and the universe itself--indicates that it was "her time" I don't believe that bull shit. I could be working on acceptance but I don't feel like it. I reject acceptance right now. :H (And apparently not just in this matter. oy. Something to look at.)
I'm not playing the blame game. The situation was WAY beyond little ol' me. I mean that with as much humility as I can muster. Actually, I mean that with absolute humility. It is not mine to give life or save lives.
We'll see what happens with my cousin. He got some genetic stuff from all sides! His mother was very mentally ill. We've got endless alkies in our blood. We'll see. I'm certainly going to do everything I can to be present. And I'm not alone in this. My mother, unknowingly, is marshaling her resources for this situation too. It is a beautiful thing to see and know. I had a wonderful weekend with her.

Space. Sorry about the hinting without clarification. On Cassander's Anxiety thread, it was related to Ginger's response to an abstract of a study that he posted. And on this thread, it was Ginger's response to some things that I posted related to my own beliefs about baclofen, and my own experience. On the other thread, it descended (as you both pointed out) into a fracas that is really detrimental for everyone. It certainly undermined the tenor of a really relevant, thoughtful and thought-provoking thread. When I tried to address this in private message format, it was not at all productive.

Ginger, obviously it was not a big deal for you, and I respect that. It was for some of us. It certainly was for me. I don't want to fight or argue or bicker. I also don't want to leave things unsaid or undone, particularly when I feel that they are harmful. (To me, anyway.) But I have no grudge, no issue, no need to drag anyone or anything out and beat it to death when it's dead.

I understand taking some time away from MWO, and you've certainly got your plate full. I hope you continue to find comfort and solutions--and good doctors!

RedH--I'm betting, as I mentioned, a bevy of stuff is going on with him. How could there not be? And really and truly you know that I am in no position to navigate that. Which reminds me that I MUST call pdocs today. I wish I would hold myself accountable to that goal. I really don't like doctors at all. ugh.

And as to the monastic life? Yeah, that's unlikely. :H I just went shopping. And the SHOES!!! Silk shantung espadrilles on sale at Macy's now, in really great colors! (and no, I'm not shilling for Macy's. ) Every now and then the flood gates open and I have a bit of a spree. Usually I regret it. But these shoes? No way. Loooove them.

I don't have time today to think or write about the kerfuffle. I don't really have time to be here now! But I appreciate everyone's responses very much.


Hope it's a good day, everybody.
:l

[spacebebe01]

Progress thread for ne

I dont think monastic life was really on the cards, wearing a hessian robe and sleeping in a cell, hmm what do you think, the shoes are definately not allowed:H

The issue with cassander I still dont know about and also have decided I dont want to, whatever it was is done and in the past. I shouldnt have asked really, thats why I deleated my last post because I didnt want to risk stirring anything up.

Between the move, your cousin, your grief over your friend and studying and work and everything else you deal with please dont forget you need care and time, and so does Mr Ne. It is great that you enjoyed the weekend with your mum, there the kind of things we should aspire to:l

[COSGringo]

Progress thread for ne

Sorry to hear about all the strife Ne. Hang in there!

[redhead77]

Progress thread for ne

Ne/Neva Eva;1316748 wrote:
RedH--I'm betting, as I mentioned, a bevy of stuff is going on with him. How could there not be? And really and truly you know that I am in no position to navigate that. Which reminds me that I MUST call pdocs today. I wish I would hold myself accountable to that goal. I really don't like doctors at all. ugh.

And as to the monastic life? Yeah, that's unlikely. I just went shopping. And the SHOES!!! Silk shantung espadrilles on sale at Macy's now, in really great colors! (and no, I'm not shilling for Macy's.) Every now and then the flood gates open and I have a bit of a spree. Usually I regret it. But these shoes? No way. Loooove them.

I don't have time today to think or write about the kerfuffle. I don't really have time to be here now! But I appreciate everyone's responses very much.

Yeah, shoes are a good thing. It doesn't matter how much weight you gain, or if you're having a fat day. Your shoes will still fit, and you can feel better wearing a great pair of them! That's what I tell myself when I buy a pair. Like you, I try not to go crazy too often.

I know the feeling about doctors. They are just people, though. Even the ones who don't know it. :H I think a lot of us have trouble with doctors and the healthcare system in general. Outside of the very obvious problems, we've been treated differently. Many of us have had bad experiences. Either because we were (are) substance abusers, or because of other conditions that are sometimes judged... like mental illness. As a group, I'll bet we've experienced some of the worst of it. Which is really awful, because these are all diseases. Just like diabetes or hypertension (IMO). And I know in yours.

What do you mean by pdoc? Is that a primary care doc or a psychiatrist? I'm thinking psychiatrist, because you mentioned you needed to find one recently. I need to get a new primary care doc, but I have a great psychiatrist. He really listens to me. It sometimes shocks me, he takes such detailed notes. I saw him a month ago, and he was able to correlate something I said to something I said in 2009! I hadn't seen him since last July, I've not needed to see him recently. But he's there when I do. I'm at the point, I might even feel comfortable. Do you know how I found him? My therapist at the time. He referred me to him. I lucked out, but part of it might have been that I had a good therapist. Just a thought to maybe make your search easier. :l

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

I had an AHA! moment last night. I realized that all this stuff that I've been worrying over is a function of dysfunction.

Gnawing on problems, rehashing past issues, that is a direct signal to me that I am not taking care of my underlying fundamental "anxiety" disorder. It is usually coupled with some other signals that I recognize immediately, so I missed it this time. (I used to wake up and compulsively check to make sure that my husband was breathing. I also obsessed a bit about my dog's health. Usually in the middle of the night.)

I've spent more money on clothes and shoes in the last week than I have in the last six months. This, too, is a signal that I'm looking for solace in something outside of myself.
Hell, I spent so much money at the hair salon yesterday that I am a bit chagrined about it. (But omg, my hair color is fantastic! :H I should hope so. I was there for four hours. ugh.)

Humble apologies, Ginger. I'm sorry that the very old business was one of the things that happened to come to the forefront.

And thanks everyone, for the words of encouragement. It was your post, COS, that helped me *see* it, actually. I realized that while the things I need to think about are many, and obviously big, they are not overwhelming. There is no strife...There's just life!!!

The really good news is that now that I see it, I know how to deal with it. Exercise! Nutrition! Stop, for crying out loud, missing bac doses! And meditation/acceptance works for me. Maybe some of that other med, too, if I can't get a hold on my sleep patterns. Woohoo!

RedH, that is exactly my problem with pdocs (the European version of psychiatrist.) But I need a local support system in order to be able to help other people, and obviously a local source for baclofen. Relying on a distant doc isn't the best solution. I'm really glad that you have seen your old pdoc and that it went well. It's very important, don't you think, to treat this disease with a medical doctor who might actually know something about the disease!?!?

So those are my first phone calls when the sun comes up. The numbers I have are all recommendations from my therapist, so your thought bodes well!

I've got to go sit on a mat and then sweat out some of these rotten old bones I keep gnawing on. Hope it's a good day, everybody!

[spacebebe01]

Progress thread for ne

Im glad things are becoming clearer to you now Ne, have you called the docs yet, I take it you are hoping to get your bac of someone close by. I also think its very important to get treated by a doc, thats why I have always had reservations about bac, but since thats not going to happen I will have to say that sentance as "I do think its very important to get treated."

[RedThread12]

Progress thread for ne

Again, not having read through but popping in re respond to what yells out to me . . . Ne, one cannot really learn to "help." What we CAN learn to do, which is scientifically proven to "help," is to remain fully present to others and to whatever the situation is. No joke. Studies show that people in accidents who have someone with them - just being there, with them - while the medical experts "triage" the victims and move them to their next destination have a significantly higher rate of successful recovery than those who are alone.

So, just glancing through your latest, it appears that you've stumbled into that reality all on your own little self. I've been following (among others, I know, but this one is really worth a mention), the work of Dr. Gabor Mate. He writes on addiction "In The Land of Hungry Ghosts," the body/mind connection as it relates to disease, "When the Body Says No," ADD and ADHD - forget the title of the book. But his premise regarding ALL of these plagues is that they stem from our lack of the reliable, continual "presence" of our mothers and/or other family members from very young. This lack of presence determines how the neurons and neural connections get put together, and also to what genes actually get triggered, and which don't. I know you need more to read like you need another hole in your head, but it all boils down to PRESENCE being the most and most lasting way to be helpful.

I actually think that between you and me and a few other MWO members, we probably know more about treating this disease with bac than anyone else (well, maybe Olivier), but the most doctors who are informed and willing to help, the better it will be. And one possibility is that a regular doc might be able to help mitigate some of the worst SE's. I've been studying on that one.

But the way out is different for everyone, huh? And since there is SO MUCH we don't know, I think it's even MORE important for bac'sters to follow their deepest inclinations regarding what, how, who and everything else. And then report back. And, of course, the more "balance" we can establish regarding diet, exercise, meditation, great friends, challenging goals, etc. . . . the more clearly we can see what works and what doesn't. Not that I'm heeding my own advice right now :H. But it sounds good, non?

I've lots more to say about this, but no more time, or I will begin to get anxious, which breeds fear, which breeds all kinds of discomfort. Take care of yourself and you WILL BE taking care of others. Really. :l

[COSGringo]

Progress thread for ne

A wise man once said, "This too shall pass".

That's what I kept telling myself when I had a kidney stone. That and the percoset helped me through.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Wow. I just had a phone conversation with a psychiatrist. It was mind-blowing.

There apparently isn't a way that she can understand that I would prefer to meet with her before we do an official intake and evaluation. The purpose being, of course, to find out if I would actually hire her and entrust my health care to her.

Which is pretty cool, I suppose, since there is now way in hell, no way on this green earth, that I would entrust my health to someone who could not figure out a way to schedule a 20 minute appointment so that we could meet. lol.

I'm really, really glad it was a phone call and not a consult that I actually had to pay for.

Oh. And when I told her that my long-distance psychiatrist prescribed baclofen, she said, "I don't prescribe baclofen." I waited a moment and she said, "I won't prescribe baclofen."

Well, that about takes care of that, doesn't it? On to the next one.
(I think this might be...invigorating. :H I like it when I get mad...Then I get shit done.)

Thank you all for your comments and thoughts. More from me tomorrow. I am literally burning dinner. Yipes!

[COSGringo]

Progress thread for ne

I never had any luck with shrinks. The ones I had just wanted to hand me an SSRI and call it a day. Counselors were loons or just wanted to talk about themselves half the time. I think most of them are more mental than their patients.
Hell, that was what I wanted to do when I was in college. Become a psych and get my own practice. Sounded like a gravy job.
The heck with them.