Progress thread for ne

[Mentium]

Thanks. I actually googled it.

...and didn't find anything..

[Mom21961]

Another good example is sleep apnea. People who already have sleep apnea can have a really hard time taking bac, because it can exacerbate the condition. They can choose to quit baclofen because it can get so bad. But there is also the option of getting a CPAP machine (if it's affordable) because the sleep apnea was preexisting and will continue to affect their sleep patterns. .

Yup. Count me in on this one. Love my new cpap. NOT!

[Mom21961]

Thanks. I actually googled it.

...and didn't find anything..

LOL. I did the same thing when I first saw that to no avail, then I was reading back on some of the old threads and found it

[nicnak68]

I too have terrible tension in my neck and shoulders and I do think it's because of Bac but hopefully it will go away over time.Keep saying I will go for a massage but don't seem to get around to it and not sure where to go.I need a proper one not a beauty parlour one

[Ne/Neva Eva]

My experience with the tightness in my neck and shoulders was very likely bac-related because it was more like spasms and it happened shortly after I would take the pills.

Sorry I didn't explain jkttdp earlier!

More from me later today.

[Molly78]

Since baclofen is a muscle relaxant, I don't get the fact that it causes "spasms". It's actually prescribed to treat leg cramps. Could the pain be boney or ligamentous, Fred? Maybe as a result of your normal muscle tone not supporting your neck so well? Just an idea. I get back pain when I increase my dose & that definitely comes from the bones!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I've never bothered to figure out the difference between say, Flexeril, which is a muscle relaxant, and baclofen, which is (clearly) an altogether different kind of muscle relaxant. I mean, they don't treat spasticity with Flexeril and they don't treat back pain with baclofen. So I think when you talk about "muscle relaxants" there must be two different and distinct medications...Same name. Does completely different things.

I like to refer to baclofen as an anti-spasmodic. That way, there isn't any confusion. Or maybe there still is, but it makes me feel better.

[Molly78]

So if it's an "anti-spasmodic", why is it causing "spasms"?

[Molly78]

Sorry, I'm being pedantic again! But I think it's useful to try to understand why certain SE happen? No?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I agree. I have no explanations, however.

One of the SEs I got from HDB was nystagmus. I've never heard of anyone else getting it. (Though others have had changes in their vision. If that happens to you, don't buy new glasses until you finish titrating up! Ha!)

And low dose baclofen is actually used to treat nystagmus.

Perhaps in people who don't have spasms it causes them, or perhaps it's the doses we're taking? (Speaking for myself. I was well above the FDA-approved amount in the first month that I was taking baclofen.) (Because I was foolish and impatient.)

I'm just glad you posted on my thread, because I'm in the middle of writing my second paper for the day and needed a diversion!

[Molly78]

Well I think you're right - "it's the doses we're taking". That's the point I made earlier: some SEs might never have been seen with baclofen at "normal" ie FDA approved doses, but we see them because of the high doses we're taking.

Bac at normal doses is used to "treat" scoliosis, or rather to relieve the muscle spasms caused by irregular forces on the spine. But at much higher doses it reduces the power of those muscles considerably, thereby destabilising the spine. So maybe the same applies to nystagmus - the higher doses cause you to lose some of the effectiveness of these muscles, thereby actually causing the problem.

Do you see what I mean, Ne?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Bac at normal doses is used to "treat" scoliosis, or rather to relieve the muscle spasms caused by irregular forces on the spine. But at much higher doses it reduces the power of those muscles considerably, thereby destabilising the spine.

I've never heard of either of those things before, Molly. And it kinda freaks me out! Where did you read that it destabilizes the spine? Holy sh*t.

Lo0p found that HDB actually increases muscle strength for some scientific reason or another.

Maybe you can help me out terryk? Probably not. I'll wade through Lo0p's thread later or on Saturday to see what it was he found out about HDB and hormones and muscle strength.

I just remembered that I was going to post some things that I did when I was a newbie that helped, and some that messed me up. Don't know if I'll get to that today, but it doesn't seem to me that any of you peeps around here are playing with fire, so no worries. ha!

It used to piss me off how often Cassander said it, but he was right, in a way, that exercise can make all the difference in the world. Lo0p was living proof of that, and so was I, though I didn't know it at the time.

The key, my beloved alkie friends, is to take it slow and steady. (Lis.) (And Kronk) so as not to get all banged up before the magic happens. I was STRONG. raaaaawwwrrr. And never felt better in my life.

I finally cancelled the gym membership I haven't been using, but I did walk the pain-in-the-foot-puppy twice today, so there's that. (Honestly, I can't lose too much weight. I finally broke down and bought clothes for this body which is much bigger than the last body. Fortunately, at age 46, I'm not likely to drop xx pounds in a matter of a couple of months. Maybe by spring? Then I won't have to buy clothes for that season! And I'll use these clothes for...mumus. [Just kidding.])

[Molly78]

It's a muscle relaxant, which is why it's used for cerebral palsy (spasticity). But the effect is dose dependent - just enough relaxes the muscle spasm, too much makes them lose the tone that keeps them upright. Voluntary muscles, ie the muscles you use when you exercise, run, lift weights, are different - these are what L00p would be referring to. He's probably right that you can exercise more easily & build strength in these muscles if they are more relaxed. Core muscles which keep you upright aren't under voluntary control - you are unaware of them.

I sense I'm on a loser with this discussion. I'll try to find some articles about use of bac in cerebral palsy.

Or maybe I'll just give up & go to bed.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Nope. I think I get what you are saying. That baclofen, based on dose, has an effect on involuntary muscles, but not on the voluntary ones?

I don't have time right now, but I would love to google and find out the differences between muscle relaxants, like flexeril, and muscle relaxants, like baclofen. And especially how HDB affects our involuntary muscles (including, I suppose, the heart, which is a muscle in it's own little category).

But it's dinnertime and then bedtime for bonzo over here.

Keep digging, Molly, you've made me very curious.

[Lostinspace]

Ne - Didn’t Lo0P mention the fact that bac raises human growth hormone levels? Maybe I’m confusing him with some other post I read from a while back. Anyway, human growth hormone helps you build muscle if you’re working out. And those agonizing back spasms are a side effect of titrating up on bac? I didn’t know what the hell was happening to me when I had them. I told my husband I was having a Charley horse in my upper back. That does fit the timeline, though. It started when I started going up higher on bac again and has tapered off recently, now that I’ve been steady at this dose for a while.