Progress thread for ne

[Mentium]

For me, the misery of abstention was not drinking but always wanting to. It was like having the brake and the accelerator on at the same time. 'Effortless' abstention is a goal I believe is worth striving for and that seems to be what you are after Ne. Your plan seems complicated to me, but that's because I don't understand it well enough, not because it is a bad plan I suspect. Good luck and all power to you if it is workable. I really hope it is.

No desire to drink here, which is quite something. Bored tonight though. The online SMART meeting is early on a Sunday.

Gee, Molly, I think you made my point about not wanting to post here about my experience! Thank you.

Far from being deranged, I'm actually feeling pretty darn good. Which would indicate (to me) that my brain chemistry is pretty well balanced at the moment. (With the exception of the fact that I am not actively treating my alcoholic drinking with baclofen...But that's a choice, and it's just for the month. I'll try to explain, though I doubt there are any who will take the time to understand.)

I am being productive, engaging in the world around me, keeping things in my home (relatively) straight and meeting my responsibilities. I'm on good relations with my husband, friends and my parents. I am also excelling in school. I still have good days and not-so-good days, of course, but nothing compared to what life used to be like.

My worst days now are akin to what my best days were like 4 months ago before I finally settled on a combination of antidepressants that work for me. My worst days now don't even compare to what it was like to drink alcoholically on a daily basis 5 years ago when I read Dr. Ameisen's book and found this place. That was an intolerable hell, even though I barely recognized it at the time. I just knew I was desperate to change my life, and I couldn't do that until I stopped drinking. Contentedly. I couldn't continue to do what I'd always done, which was attend AA, pray, take some meds or supplements, and do my best to white knuckle it across the finish line.

Baclofen changed all of that, of course. And that story is the one written here starting on page one of this thread.

The things you (and perhaps others) are insinuating or are possibly just confused about have to do with the decisions I'm making about baclofen and my drinking right now.

I thought I would just lay low for a while, seeing as there isn't really any activity going on here anyway, but perhaps, instead, I'll try to explain why I'm taking a bunch of medications, titrating down and continuing to drink. If nothing else, it will give me something to write about, and you all know how much I love that. right?

Peace out. Times a billion.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Why am I doing this? A little background...

I'm pretty sure I've had some level of depression for my whole adult life. (Not my childhood, though.) And there wasn't any way to separate that from the fact that I've had some sort of alcohol use disorder since I was about 14.

About a year ago, in the fall of 2014, the depression was debilitating. 2014 was a year of loss and extreme stress, too. Looking back, my husband and I decided that the depression really started in the fall of 2013. But by this time last year, I was always angry, constantly tired and miserable. I still wasn't drinking, so I knew it wasn't related to alcohol.

Possibly related to my misery, though, was the fact that in January 2013, I started titrating down from ~220mg of bac/month to 80mg/month by August. I still wasn't drinking regularly or alcoholically, though. But I didn't know if baclofen acted as an antidepressant for me (which seemed unlikely) or if I needed something else.

I got a prescription for an antidepressant, a low dose of effexor, around late fall 2014. I was having mild panic attacks that convinced me that I was having heart problems. After my third visit to the doctor about my heart (lol) he prescribed the effexor. It seemed to improve things for a while, but I think that was wishful thinking. (Ah, the lovely placebo effect.)

In December 2014, I started drinking more often and more of it. Still not out of control, and still not enough to warrant any concern, except that any increase in drinking is a concern for me.

Drinking continued to escalate through the spring, even as I escalated my baclofen dose.

The depression was completely debilitating. It was difficult to get out of bed, difficult to shower, almost impossible to leave the house, even to go to the grocery store. I had trouble looking people in the eyes, or making small talk. (What do you say when someone asks, "How are you?" and you want to say, "Completely fucking miserable. And you?") Worse than all of that, I was falling farther and farther behind in school. And by this time drinking to blackout (or close to it) daily. (Usually 12 beers or a bottle of wine or two.)

In late April, I was completely overwhelmed. I was two weeks from finishing school, and three from graduating. I missed too many classes but was still having trouble going to them. The professor was being very lenient, but I couldn't finish my work. I gave in. I got a medical withdrawal from my class and set about setting myself straight.

During that month I also met my current psychiatrist and she's the one who helped me put it all back together again.

[_serenity_]

I get it, I think. That you're trying to figure out the interactions with BAC and some of your other meds. See which ones are helpful, and which ones might not be (at least while on BAC) and then titrate back up and try and switch a lower dose so you aren't on an ungodly amount of medication. Is that about it?

I get it too. If my post above seemed harsh, please trust that it came from a place of love and deep concern that you could head down that horrible path to depression and blackout again.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I understand, Mentium. I like your analogy of having your foot on the brake and the accelerator at the same time. I feel the same way. So, so, so glad that you don't feel like drinking. That's a wonderful feeling, isn't it? Keep it up!

I get it, I think. That you're trying to figure out the interactions with BAC and some of your other meds. See which ones are helpful, and which ones might not be (at least while on BAC) and then titrate back up and try and switch a lower dose so you aren't on an ungodly amount of medication. Is that about it?

I get it too. If my post above seemed harsh, please trust that it came from a place of love and deep concern that you could head down that horrible path to depression and blackout again.

I missed your post, Dun, before I wrote the beginning of my explanation. That's exactly right. I don't want to take 400+ of baclofen if I don't have to, and I have no idea if the meds I'm on are interacting with bac...

You're post wasn't harsh at all, Sere. I don't think you have it in you to be harsh. Especially not with me. :hug: And yes, Sere, I think that I feel much safer doing this because I see my psych every single weeks, usually for two hours!

Thank you both for understanding. I am taking one drug in particular, (prescribed) adderall, on a semi-regular basis, that I think counteracts bac. Or vice-versa. I know that when I was new to sobriety, way back in mid-2011, I took an adderall one afternoon and by that evening I was craving alcohol for the first time in a loooong time. The thing is, the adderall is extremely helpful with schoolwork. So much so that I can't believe the difference it makes. I'm particularly reluctant to give it up because it's so helpful, especially since my drinking isn't escalating and isn't totally f*cking up my life. Which is not to say I intend to keep taking it if it does in fact interfere with baclofen. But I can't take the time to figure that our right now. I don't have that flexibility. Soon, though, I will. In about a week, actually. My very last graded assignment is due in two days. (WOOHOOOOO!)

I'm at 1500mg of Gaba and 80 Bac. Not interested in alcohol in the slightest. Will keep going up to 1800 gaba and will also see about going down a bit on Bac (to 60 mg). My Pdoc will probably only prescribe higher gaba with a decrease in Bac (which it why she wanted to try the combo). Hoping the increase in Gaba and decrease in Bac will keep cravings at bay while getting rid of the nerve pain.

So the nerve pain is still a problem? In a way, I hate that your pdoc is making you go down on bac in order to increase the gaba, since I think the bac is much more effective on the receptors that make us drink. On the other hand, if you're still having nerve pain then it's probably a good thing. Especially since you don't feel like drinking at all. Maybe I'll use it when I start back up on bac? Probably not though. I'm taking enough damn pills.

At some point this year I decided to try gabapentin. I don't remember when or why, but I ordered enough for like 3 months and then promptly forgot about it. (Can you imagine spending that much money, getting the box in the mail, and never even opening it? That's depression, folks.) Anyway, I came across it and sent it to a friend of mine overseas who is drinking like a fish and refuses to take bac again (even though it did help the first time...). I really, really, really hope it works for my friend. Actually, the first thing is that I really, really, really hope that s/he takes it. That's always the first and hardest step, isn't it?

Wow. Novels from me today and now I'm (as usual) running late.

Much love.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Part 2 of the background

You've got to be asking yourself (I am) why I'm sharing all this on here. There are two reasons. One is that we don't talk enough about the fact that many of us take other meds, or should be taking other meds. The second is that we often talk about the doctor as the enemy. It's hard to find the one that works for you but they are out there. Oh, and the third is to keep it straight for myself and continue to explain why I'm titrating down on baclofen.

I should have said in the beginning that she diagnosed me with major depression and an anxiety disorder. I told her I had been diagnosed with ADD before, but she said she didn't think so and we went with that...Even though I was pretty sure I'm the walking textbook definition. But anyway. That's another story.

Fredson, I actually took and take my antidepressants regularly. It really helps that it's one pill(s) first thing in the morning. And I wasn't on Effexor for very long. She switched me over to the newer (and non-generic!) one, called Pristiq. She said she found that people who had some response to Effexor, but that were still depressed, did well with Pristiq. So we tried it and it made things a little better. During this time she was also prescribing small amounts of xanax, to take PRN.

My pdoc kept talking about all of this in terms of percentages and baselines. If the Effexor was only effective enough to make me 50% less depressed, then it wasn't the right medication, but perhaps the active ingredients were effective and if they were in a different formulation, or if I took more of it, or added something to strengthen the actions they would bring my percentage higher...I'm not explaining it well, and honestly, she speaks to me and explains all of this very scientifically. It's not something I could reiterate verbatim here.

But everything she said, and the actions we were taking made rational sense to me.

And at the same time I was titrating up on baclofen. It took me about six weeks to admit to her about the alcohol, and another two weeks to admit to her the entire baclofen story. (At first I told her I was only taking 80mg! ha!) She was shocked, of course, since it'd been two months and never came up.

We agreed that we would be completely honest with one another from that point forward and that changed everything. That didn't just mean that I wouldn't lie to her, like I did about the baclofen. It also meant that her feedback related to what she knows about AUDs and alcoholism like mine, specifically, had to be honest. She's not an addiction therapist. And her assumptions were the same as most doctor's assumptions. That I couldn't be trusted, that I couldn't take medications that were considered abusable, etc. and on and on. Mostly very negative stuff, I think we can all agree.

I liked her before, but now I see her as a partner in this journey. One who, when I explain myself, can give me rational feedback about my decisions and thoughts.

The last and real reason, I suppose, for anyone to share their experiences with mental health on here or anywhere else is because secrets kill us. They do. I'm not ashamed that I have a closet full of medications that help me be normal on any given day. Or I try not to be. And I'm definitely not going to let the people who believe that I am fooling myself, or not my real self, or replacing one addiction with another, dictate how I live my life. They can stay stuck in 1933. I'll embrace 2020, thank you very much.

Much love.

[bleep]

I completely understand why you want a period without baclofen, I have had the same desire several times in the almost 5 years of joy since starting on it. Surprisingly, each time I have been off it, I have felt no difference, only the slight freedom of not having to take something every day. Still, that hasn't stopped me from rinsing and repeating the same old formula! Life is an adventure, try different things. Some people seem able to come off it entirely, what if you were one of those people and never tried?

There is a little part of me that also enjoys just having a drink without any fucking analysis or interference. Just, yay. That's what probably got me to this forum in the first place though, so it doesn't deserve much leeway. Still nice once in a while though. I'd shit myself and have a completely different attitude if baclofen weren't around though. But it is around.

I've also found that when going down, it does seem possible to take greater drops than the literature dictates. I would never advise a rapid decrease because the literature is scary, but I generally titrate off from 240 in about 3 weeks to a month. You will soon know if you have bitten off more than you can chew. I think also that when you have been on baclofen for some time, it is a very different drug to the first time you titrate, so throw that in the mix before you decide anything drastic.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Yep. My reasons are a bit different than yours, bleepster, but the rest you got right on track. Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

I can't really talk about my titration (down or up!) anymore, because frankly it's not anything I want anyone to freak out about and I definitely don't want anyone to emulate it.

Suffice it to say, my titration down is a bit more drastic than anything I've ever seen or done, and it hasn't bothered me a bit. I'm staying where I am for the moment until next week when I'm completely done with schoolwork. Don't want to mess that up at the last minute! But I expect to be off baclofen by the end of December, or close enough that it doesn't matter. Then I'll titrate up in January. That's the plan for now, anyway.

[Lostinspace]

Ne - I’m really sorry if my last post came across as unsupportive. I didn’t understand what you were trying to do, and I didn’t realize that you were under your pdoc’s care every single week (! For two hours!). I just wanted you to be careful as you were coming down on bac and it sounds like you will be. I wish you the best in figuring out all this medication stuff.

[Mom21961]

. I'm staying where I am for the moment until next week when I'm completely done with schoolwork. .

Yay! That's what I was worried about . Good luck on your finals!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Yay! That's what I was worried about . Good luck on your finals!

Last class today. Comprehensive two hour exam and then I get to give a presentation to the class about mental illness and suicide, some of my favorite subjects. After that, I only have a final for my psych class. And even if I didn't take it, I'd get an A in the class.

Things are really good here. I hope that's true for you all, too.

[Lostinspace]

Hey Ne. How are you doing? You went from posting like mad every day to total radio silence. Are you doing alright?

[dundrinkn]

Was wondering the same thing...

[terryk]

I got in touch with NE today. She's doing well, in California with her family for xmas, and evidently she graduated from her nursing program. Congrats to her.

-tk

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Sorry for the long delayed update, my friends.

As you can imagine, the last three weeks have been a whirlwind.

The short version is that I graduated (magna cum laude, thank you very much!), then had a big party, then left for Christmas in California, then got caught in the storm in Chicago on the way home for two excruciating days and nights, and finally got home yesterday.

I've been completely off of baclofen for about a week. My drinking is stabilized. I have been with family since the 19th, though, so it's not like I've had a lot of free time on my hands to drown myself in the bottle. That's not to say that we (as a family) don't drink a lot. We do, for sure.

Anyway. Tried to get drunk in the airport on Tuesday to pass the time and wait for delayed/cancelled planes...Didn't work, though I did pass the time and have fun. And spend way too much money. Gawd. A beer for $8? Very annoying. Still, there were a lot of stranded travelers and I finally put my book away (yes, I was reading at the bar) and spent several hours bitching and moaning and talking with strangers. It's been a long time since I've done that in a bar! Ha!

I'll start baclofen tomorrow at 20mg. Increase every 3 days by 20mg until I reach indifference again. I'm looking forward to the experiment.

I can finally say that I think the spell MWO placed on me five years ago is broken and I find myself not really thinking about posting. I have to admit, it's a relief. I will try to keep this thread up to date, and rest assured, that if everything hits the fan, it'll be posted here first! Otherwise assume everything is copacetic and I'm plugging along...studying for my national certification and looking for a J-O-B. My first in three years! Yikes!

I hope all is well out in MWO-land.
And cheers (with a non-alcoholic beverage) to a safe and content 2016. Love you guys. Take good, good, care.
xo

[Spiritfree]

NE -Great news to read today, great post, and huge congrats to you. I literally read your entire post and I am grateful that I did so. Your former friend but not a troll SF.

Edit: Ne- I was just thinking once again about your post and pulled over the ole truck to the side of the road and add the following: You graduated Magna Cum Laude -nursing school and you did so at at an older more challenging part of life. I have two family members who are nurses and they became so at an early age. You have shown people that real-huge-positives things are possible at a little older age and you are to be commended. We who have had chemical struggles in our lives seem to come with the dangest amount of energy and spirit to accomplish certain goals/things in our lives. Again, congratulations.

Sorry for the long delayed update, my friends.

As you can imagine, the last three weeks have been a whirlwind.

The short version is that I graduated (magna cum laude, thank you very much!), then had a big party, then left for Christmas in California, then got caught in the storm in Chicago on the way home for two excruciating days and nights, and finally got home yesterday.

I've been completely off of baclofen for about a week. My drinking is stabilized. I have been with family since the 19th, though, so it's not like I've had a lot of free time on my hands to drown myself in the bottle. That's not to say that we (as a family) don't drink a lot. We do, for sure.

Anyway. Tried to get drunk in the airport on Tuesday to pass the time and wait for delayed/cancelled planes...Didn't work, though I did pass the time and have fun. And spend way too much money. Gawd. A beer for $8? Very annoying. Still, there were a lot of stranded travelers and I finally put my book away (yes, I was reading at the bar) and spent several hours bitching and moaning and talking with strangers. It's been a long time since I've done that in a bar! Ha!

I'll start baclofen tomorrow at 20mg. Increase every 3 days by 20mg until I reach indifference again. I'm looking forward to the experiment.

I can finally say that I think the spell MWO placed on me five years ago is broken and I find myself not really thinking about posting. I have to admit, it's a relief. I will try to keep this thread up to date, and rest assured, that if everything hits the fan, it'll be posted here first! Otherwise assume everything is copacetic and I'm plugging along...studying for my national certification and looking for a J-O-B. My first in three years! Yikes!

I hope all is well out in MWO-land.
And cheers (with a non-alcoholic beverage) to a safe and content 2016. Love you guys. Take good, good, care.
xo