Autism and Addiction

[Otter]

I have spent some time looking around other sites. I was very interested in the post by Tracy about Arbaclofen which is 10 times more potent than Baclofen and is being tested and used for treatment of autism by Seaside Therapeutics. I think this is a huge development.

I decided to Google autism and alcoholism and found a site of a woman called Donna Williams in which she tells of her life as a sufferer of autism. What is interesting is that she is also an alcoholic and the two conditions, in her view, go hand in hand. This seems to support what is said in the Time Healthland article that the underlying condition responsible for addiction and autism and, for that matter, all anxiety related disorders is a dysfunction of the brain's amygdala or anxiety/fear mechanism.

I apologize for my unscientific way of putting all this but it seems to me that this is very important and significant. The article in Time only came out on 1 December 2010 but it is all over the Autism forums with the same sort of comments sceptics have levelled at Ameisen and Baclofen.

I think the time is upon us where all these disorders are looked at as primarily neurological and a lot of what people see as psychological issues are seen as neurological disorders. Perhaps the real conditions that people here and elsewhere refer to as "underlying" alcoholism are not really psychological issues which can be "fixed" with counselling any more than craving alone can be fixed with AA meetings. Maybe these underlying issues are part and parcel of the spectrum of disorders brought on by amygdala/Gaba B dysfunction or whatever you want to call it and the development of Arbaclofen is the next step in the progress towards a better understanding of these disorders and their ultimate treatment, if not "cure".

On the other hand, maybe there is something to the idea of the plasticity of the brain and its ability to change if "retuned" in the way that some say is necessary with autism. I feel that the next step in alcohol treatment for anyone is to look at the symptoms one has which led to alcoholism, apart from those conditions which can be rectified with good nutrition and abstinence, and examine whether they relate to an autistic type condition and to look at the treatment of those disorders. We will have to wait until 2013 for the release of Arbaclofen so in the meantime I for one am starting to look at alternative approaches to dealing with these underlying issues as part of a range of autistic conditions.

Obviously, I stand to be corrected and any comments are, in the spirit of his forum, gratefully and graciously received.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Autism and Addiction

I asked Dr. Levin if he'd heard of the study starting in Amsterdam in Jan. 2011. From the notes I took:
He believes that baclofen is a ?very, very important? drug. I asked him if he had heard of the study in Amsterdam due to begin in Jan. 2011. He said there were studies being conducted on bac all over the world. He told me about one in the US that is studying the effect bac has on empathy in regards to Fragile X Syndrome (I think) and autism. Unrelated to addiction it works on MGLU5R, which regulates capacity for empathy. (again, I think.)

I have certainly used up all of my MWO facetime here today. And am way out my league when talking the medical/science stuff. Best, otter.

[Topsy-Turvy-Tracy]

Autism and Addiction

Thanks, Otter. Would you please post a link to the blog and article that you mentioned?

Interesting stuff for sure. When I was a kid, my oldest sister sucked her thumb well into the double digits of age. When she was punished for doing it openly, she hid herself away to do it or did it at night under the blanket. My parents had to buy nasty-tasting stuff to paint on her thumbnail to get her to stop.

My older brother wet the bed well into junior high school. He and I, separately and in private, rocked ourselves (on all fours) to get to sleep at night and to comfort ourselves in particularly stressful situations. We both did well into elementary school, and I started doing it again in adolescence when all the hormones hit, and again at age 20 when I was suffering from post-partum depression - because it was the only thing that made me feel better. I hadn't discovered alcohol yet.

So what of my two other siblings? One had very severe mental health problems - enormous anxiety - and was on valium starting at 13 years old. She used to - very literally - run and use her hands to bounce herself off the walls of her room to music - sort of a weird, frenzied dance. She is now mortally overweight (food is her comfort, high-sugar food), has had the stomach surgery and is now gaining it all back again. She cannot hold down a job and was recently told by her physician that she needs to be on disability because she is mentally disabled, but she's never been a drinker and her IQ is very high. My kid brother, who also had a stunning intellect, died a few years ago. He was a balls-to-the-wall alcoholic, always drank alone, and he never had a social life - to my knowledge he never even had a date - because he was thoroughly, hopelessly, terrified of people.

Now, at this late stage in life and with all the research and knowledge, I am getting that me and all of my siblings demonstrated decidedly obvious autistic behaviors.

Interesting stuff.

[Otter]

Autism and Addiction

Donna Williams Blog

Here it is.

Donna Williams: Autism, Addiction and Indulgence

The article is:

New Version of an Old Drug Could Treat Autism (and Addiction Too) – TIME Healthland

[beatle]

Autism and Addiction

This is fascinating and exciting.

1) Could it bring baclofen treatment for addiction finally into mainstream?
2) Could STX 209 be even more effective treatment than baclofen (and perhaps less side effects... and perhaps lowering the amount of pills that need to be taken and the short intervals?)

[Otter]

Autism and Addiction

The angry man syndrome!!

The reason this interests me is that there is a problem in medicine and law in relation to alcohol use. Doctors won't refer someone to a psychiatrist if they are not free of alcohol. Someone who is mentally unwell but is drinking cannot get a diagnosis of their illness if they are drinking. Of course, you can never get a diagnosis because when you sober up the psychiatric issues are then attributed to alcoholism.

Diagnoses of a mental or physical illness are very important because they allow a doctor to legally prescribe and at the moment there is no effective medication recognized by the medical profession at large as a treatment for alcoholism, except for Campral (which is useless).

The article about Arbaclofen is interesting because it suggests that the underlying condition in addiction and alcoholism is the same, some sort of amygdala disorder which results in anxiety.

I find it interesting that Olivier Ameisen's description of his anxieties is very similar to Donna William's symptoms. Is he autistic, or is Donna Williams an alcoholic? Ultimately the two are probably the same but if saying you are autistic cuts through the problem with prescribing Baclofen then maybe it is better to get a diagnosis of autism. Also, it puts you in a different category in legal matters because alcoholism is not recognized as an illness whereas autism is. This opens up defences in criminal cases and sentencing options for courts so it is quite important if by any chance you get into legal trouble which is a common problem with alcohol and drugs!!

I went on to some Austism sites and opiate sites. It was very amusing that the people on them made exactly the same comments as people on this site. Some said that Ameisen was a name dropper and had not discovered a "cure" but only a treatment, if that. Many were quite rude and blunt. The autistics were open in admitting that part of their condition was being very direct and not being afraid to offend. Does any of this remind you of anyone?

My attitude towards it is that a lot of the argumentativeness on this site is part of the illness which affects a person's ability to interact and which also causes social phobias common in alcoholism and autism. So, if you find some of the posts on this site a bit offensive, perhaps bear in mind that this could be very much part of the illness and not deliberate attempts to be unpleasant. Actually, we all suffer from it. We all get anxious and we all get snappy. The difference is that a person with an amygdala disorder does not have the capacity to recover and either engages in repetitive, compulsive behaviour or takes something which calms them down.

Alcoholism is not an illness; alcohol is a medication for an illness...and so is Baclofen.

Just a thought.

Best wishes

[Guitarista]

Autism and Addiction

Good stuff Otter,

I relate to a lot of this.

It's handy to understand the reason's why we self medicate, and often we need to get sober/straight to begin to understand, or if we already know, to work on our healing. Anxiety, and an overly sensitive soul are common.

Best wishes, and great thread. G-bloke.

[beatle]

Autism and Addiction

Otter;1026479 wrote: The reason this interests me is that there is a problem in medicine and law in relation to alcohol use. Doctors won't refer someone to a psychiatrist if they are not free of alcohol. Someone who is mentally unwell but is drinking cannot get a diagnosis of their illness if they are drinking. Of course, you can never get a diagnosis because when you sober up the psychiatric issues are then attributed to alcoholism.

Diagnoses of a mental or physical illness are very important because they allow a doctor to legally prescribe and at the moment there is no effective medication recognized by the medical profession at large as a treatment for alcoholism, except for Campral (which is useless).

The article about Arbaclofen is interesting because it suggests that the underlying condition in addiction and alcoholism is the same, some sort of amygdala disorder which results in anxiety.

I find it interesting that Olivier Ameisen's description of his anxieties is very similar to Donna William's symptoms. Is he autistic, or is Donna Williams an alcoholic? Ultimately the two are probably the same but if saying you are autistic cuts through the problem with prescribing Baclofen then maybe it is better to get a diagnosis of autism. Also, it puts you in a different category in legal matters because alcoholism is not recognized as an illness whereas autism is. This opens up defences in criminal cases and sentencing options for courts so it is quite important if by any chance you get into legal trouble which is a common problem with alcohol and drugs!!

I went on to some Austism sites and opiate sites. It was very amusing that the people on them made exactly the same comments as people on this site. Some said that Ameisen was a name dropper and had not discovered a "cure" but only a treatment, if that. Many were quite rude and blunt. The autistics were open in admitting that part of their condition was being very direct and not being afraid to offend. Does any of this remind you of anyone?

My attitude towards it is that a lot of the argumentativeness on this site is part of the illness which affects a person's ability to interact and which also causes social phobias common in alcoholism and autism. So, if you find some of the posts on this site a bit offensive, perhaps bear in mind that this could be very much part of the illness and not deliberate attempts to be unpleasant. Actually, we all suffer from it. We all get anxious and we all get snappy. The difference is that a person with an amygdala disorder does not have the capacity to recover and either engages in repetitive, compulsive behaviour or takes something which calms them down.

Alcoholism is not an illness; alcohol is a medication for an illness...and so is Baclofen.

Just a thought.

Best wishes

I find this last post simply amazing (especially the conclusion).

AND: "The article about Arbaclofen is interesting because it suggests that the underlying condition in addiction and alcoholism is the same, some sort of *amygdala disorder* which results in anxiety."

Why hasn't this been/or being studied more? It sounds almost revolutionary.

I can't help but think these are groundbreaking findings and hypotheses.

While I try to digest it and add my thoughts and questions, I am bumping it to make sure it doesn't get lost. I think it will be mind-opening for many others.

[missyabby1]

Autism and Addiction

I think I have just lost it so take this post with a grain of salt. Otter I am sure you are a really really nice person but your blanket statements have just done me in.

My doctor is quite happy to refer me to a psychiatrist whether I am still drinking or not.

Campral is not useless.

I am not direct, argumentative or blunt because I have something bloody well wrong with my brain.

I do not display ANY symptoms of autism, and if I get caught drink driving it is because I am a pisshead.

I am not grumpy and anxious because of any underlying psychiatric disorder but because I live in the 21st century where stressors abound.

I learnt to drink to excess, after being sober for the first 40yrs of my life, because of situational matters which I could not handle.

This bloody awful compulsion has come about because I fucked up my brain whilst indulging in too much alcohol. Simple as that.

I do not, nor ever will believe that my opinions are more worthy or more informed then anyone elses on this forum............nor would I dare promote one way of getting sober over another because I can only say what is right for me . My own success or failure, as the case may be.

That is all I have to say at the moment because I have given myself a bloody headache getting angry (or maybe its because I am displaying autistic tendencies)

I just got so riled because I just thought if I was a newcomer getting up the courage to seek a referral to a psychiatrist , whilst still drinking, I would be despairing because of your post. Don't post these things as fact when you don't know what you are bloody well talking about.

You are truly tarred and feathered for the time being. There are new people entering this site everyday and they take seriously what people say on here. Just be more mindful of that.

[Otter]

Autism and Addiction

Here is a post to some articles about the significance of the amygdala:

Amygdala in Bipolar Disorder -- Neurotransmitter.net

Ameisen has been lauded because he has discovered a treatment for all addiction. I and others on this forum now believe that this discovery will change the view of mental illness and that he actually discovered a treatment for all mental illness.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Autism and Addiction

Otter;1075119 wrote: Here is a post to some articles about the significance of the amygdala:

Amygdala in Bipolar Disorder -- Neurotransmitter.net

Ameisen has been lauded because he has discovered a treatment for all addiction. I and others on this forum now believe that this discovery will change the view of mental illness and that he actually discovered a treatment for all mental illness.

I emphatically agree Otter! WOW!
It took me long enough, I know.


:h
Thank you, friend.

[Otter]

Autism and Addiction

Yes, you were suffering from anxiety which is a result of a depletion in the chemical which calms the amygdala. You turned to alcohol because it also calms this area of the brain. There are only two man made treatments for this condition...Alcohol...and Baclofen.

You plainly did not have an underlying pre-existing condition but your anxiety led you to drink and your own ability to produce calming chemicals through a period of extreme stress was interfered with by alcohol. If you do decrease your stress, return to a normal brain homeostasis and are able to stop drinking with Campral and counselling then you will have beaten your alcoholism.

A lot of people are not so lucky. I suppose this part of the brain differs from one person to another and works differently. Our pituitary glands are also different and produce chemicals in different amounts from person to person. If we all had identical brains we would all be sober and exactly the same height.