Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

hmmmm.
Any day now. so...
:l
WELCOME HOME!!!
:l

I know you'll find a seedy internet cafe shortly after arriving!
If it's a seedy bar first, I'm sure lo0p and serenity will want to hear all about that too!
:disco: :hallo: :h

[Bruunhilde]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Nev, you're killing me....

[ignominious]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Belated thanks for the welcome back. Rather late in checking in here. Seems I am keeping fairly busy at the moment though seem to be achieving v little.

Cigarettes - I'm sure I enjoy the nicotene less but I still get cravings and thankfully nicorettes are available at the airports so no more need to be smoking in the plane bogs. Suspect it will be some time before I get a handle on that one. Same old story, one cigarette is so innocuous and irrelevant that I can't resist it. If I had a rerun of my baclofen saga I would have tried to quit smoking at my switch dose. Maybe that would have quenched the cravings. Any heavy smokers reading, please give it a try.

Had a rough time emotionally in England and still tough going financially but haven't been compelled to drink.

Tapered down to 80mg about 6 weeks ago and was really getting edgy, I wanted to have some room to use a prn dose when I was in England. But too much, so over the course of a week, went back up to 120 which is where I am now. At 80mg I was getting into a frame of mind where getting sloshed seemed like the sensible thing to do in Bangkok. At 120 I came to my senses and don't feel likely to get derailed from AF by events.

Still feeling pissed off and cheated by life and circumstances. Still no euphoria found. Had a bit of crack and some tramadols too see if I could get high on that - just to get a break. But no joy. Never really liked coke and the tramadols confirm that I really don't like opiates much any more. Not gone down the sex addicts route yet. Still giving my intimacy issues a chance to get sorted out. What else? Still smoking, still broke, still a miserable git!

Trying St Jhons Wort but no idea if it lightens my mood or not. Up/down on the Bac dose will probably over shadow that, however think I'll stay at 120 for a while and I should get an idea about St Jhon's when I finish the bottle.

[startingover]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Iggy pop, ya miserable git. Ive missed you!
Good to see you still in the game x

[ignominious]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Thanks for the reply Mrs Starts, sentiments right back at you. xo. I'd like to ask you, do you still suffer from cravings at all? And have you considered trying a small dose of bac for them?

Some things I forgot to get off my chest in my first missive.

I saw 2 Doctors in England. Both of them friends of the family. Neither one was able to hook me up with any type of therapy - waiting lists to long - not really surprising in this fucked up world! The other thing was that neither of them had heard about Bac for alcoholism and both firmly refused to prescribe it to me - so I'm still stuck with with a $150/month habit at 120mg. Incidentally at this dose I am getting SEs of somnolence, forgetfulness and pressure to the head. Nothing debilitating but I hope they go away eventually.

I was given various reasons, one being that their practice could be shut down for prescribing off label to which I countered that maybe they had a duty to fulfill and they could be in danger by not prescribing. That'll get some heckles up and I suggest anyone contemplating that route go armed with more information than I did. The argument is theoretically sound but I think crying might get better results - what d'ya think Nev? Also Otter. do you know the percentage of prescriptions that are given off label in England?

One more thing concerns a friend that hit the bottle hard during the 5 years since my previous England trip. She's always been a party girl with a long term addiction to cocaine but the booze had gotten out of control and she now looks like Mick Jagger! Smallish girl drinking a bottle a day at the peak. Hope she isn't reading this. Internet's not her thing and if she is then she would undoubtedly agree. Long story short. I introduced her to baclofen. She started on 3 x 10mg and has been on that for over a week.

She's got the "joi de vie" buzz and tells me that she's still not sure if its the baclofen or just a placebo effect (familiar emotions for many of us). By herself she's able to resist going to buy booze fairly easily. When friends come over its a different story - she says that may be due to habit. Occasionally mild vertigo. Her liver is not in good shape and she was well pleased to find an article about baclofen saying it could help alcoholics or cocaine addicts with liver problems. Basically all systems go - however when I suggested that she increase her dosage she said she would rather not. Concerns about addiction to yet another chemical (I've been there myself) and a desire to do it by herself (willpower) that I am a proponent for when taken in perspective.

Having found myself in the position of self appointed physician I would have liked to see things run their course according to plan. i.e. regular titration untill 'switch' and then deal with the concerns about being on this brain altering chemical for life. My 'patient' also agrees that baclofen is preferable to drinking herself to death. Multiple rehabs and AA meetings have done nothing for her in the past. She doesn't want to be a moderate drinker, she would like to be like me - unaffected/indifferent to alcohol around them.

My main concern is that baclofen may loose its efficacy if taken in small doses and the brain continually being taught that moderate alcohol consumption is pleasurable. I'm sure that Beatle and others must have some thoughts on that. I truly believe that even with baclofen the the desire and strength to stop comes from you and therefore the journey is still uniquely yours. Consequently don't want to push (for want of a better word) her to take more Bac. Any and all input on this is welcome and wanted.

Lastly for anyone interested. I have, at last, sent Dr Levin some money. I decided to send him an amount equal to the monthly salary of my live-in maid, which I thought is reasonable. About 15 bucks. Maybe another example of one size doesn't fit all?

[bleep]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Hi Ig,

I don't think she will "adapt" to baclofen as such. Saying that, you do need to convince her to titrate up. The pleasurable SE's she has experienced in that regard will surely help, although I can see having your work cut out for you if and when any of the unpleasant ones drop by to say hello. I think maybe printing out a few of the switch posts and showing them to her may help?

Could you send your live-in maid to me, I'll double her salary!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

A resounding welcome bac, Ig. Thanks for the tome.

Don't know how many times I have to tell you about the crying thing. Especially when it's true. Sheesh. Still, I don't think even I would've walked out with any baclofen. Though I might've been cagey enough to talk about muscle spasms or something. But I doubt it. I don't lie well. hmmmm. maybe.

Glad your friend got the bac. Truth hurts but we all need some, occasionally. You want me to call her? :H She's got to go up! up! up! Bummer that she can't spend an inordinate amount of time here, surely she doesn't have anyone there to talk to about it. Tough going on your own.

Later!
:ls
xo
Karen
and : /- about the maid and the $15. And even the $150/month. WITH insurance this stuff is costing me that much. Still, any price for freedom, right, brother?

[startingover]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Yes Iggy pop, I do still get cravings, but its more of an emotional craving than a physical one. I find if I use my other coping mechanisms I can get through them and they pass..however I had a blip with the nicotine at Christmas. Didnt smoke but managed to munch my way through 735 pieces of nicotine chewing gum that I had residing in the cupboard....I am now a week nicotine free thank feck

[ignominious]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Starts - 735 pieces, sounds like some kind of record! You must have had jaw ache and managed to dislodge any fillings that were getting old! Sorry to hear that, lucky feck came to the rescue. That's a friend of Tip's from down under if I remember correctly. Sincerely hope your well and back in the saddle. What decided you to start chewing? And your thoughts on Bac please.

Bleep. I like your positive attitude. I'm just a little concerned that the brains powers of regeneration will after time find a way around the bac switch if enough effort is applied, i.e. drinking moderately. As to convincing her to titrate up, I had a similar gut reaction, however after several paragraphss into my pitch I wondered what I was doing. I am not 100% satisfied that I understand the long term effects of baclofen and felt some ethical dilemma setting in. I feel fine telling her about my experience and understanding of Bac but also feel my obligation should and must stop there. I think its the right and sensible course of action to titrate up but the decision is ultimately hers.

Karen darling. Muscle spasms would surely have worked but in my foolish innocence I thought that a logical approach should be used. After all they were doctors and employ reason and deduction every day plying their trade. More fool me. Part of my self growth is to stop expecting people and life in general fit together how it should. The crying tactic has never been very successful for me, doesn't seem to conjure up the knight in shining armour that you girls can achieve. I have suggested that she join a forum to talk about this but she was adamant that she wouldn't do it. I will suggest it again as MWO has been so helpful to me.

The maid situation is true by the way and whilst I would love to accommodate you Bleep you'd need to arrange for her to return to her village every bank holiday or equivalent! I have a counter proposal, I'll also pay double for anyone who speaks English that you can send out to me. Health cover, food and board, guaranteed clement weather. Any takers?

[startingover]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Totally back in the saddle now Iggy. Feck is my bezzie mate I think...
I think I started chewing because I had a nicotine craving at Christmas. I find this time of year particularly hard for a number of reasons and this year I lost my mum in the October so it was doubly hard. I had a craving and thought just 1 piece of gum would sort it....Its never just the one of anything for me...

Bac would worry me...from what I have read some people do get a nice warm buzz off it. Having been the opiate queen in a past life, I really dont think I could handle anything like that, so am going to just rely on my life changes and the fact that that I dont crave very often.
I am very interested in bac tho because I have started to work with people with drink/drug/mental health issues and I want to be able to tell them of the help that is available. Even tho in this country, people look at me as if I am mad

[ignominious]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

I was addicted to heroin myself for 2 years solid, plus another 2 years leading up to it. Nice warm cozy buzz. The Bac gives a nice contented buzz as well. For me the difference is with one I was happy doing nothing and with the other I was happy going about life.

You seem to have the same concerns that my friend has about it possibly being too enjoyable and maybe addictive. Recreational drugs are moreish, people who buy the occasional gram of coke for a party: would, if they had 10g, not stop partying until it was finished. Heroin for me involved daily use of my will power not to increase my consumption, I could always have taken a bit more and after 2 years I was using more than was sustainable.

Baclofen on the other hand has never been something I wanted to take more of. To many intents and purposes the end results are similar. I now have a daily need for a chemical, without which I will suffer. I have a habit that may reside with me for life. It costs me more than I would like ( 1 months worth is the equivalent of 1 days worth of heroin but its still more than I'd like to pay). Withdrawal symptoms are a fact.

The biggest differences are that I don't get immediate pleasurable gratification from baclofen (have yet to try injecting it). I don't have any desire to take more so that I have an extra good day but I may jugle my doses or take an extra prn dose if I'm going to a party or social gathering where I want to be more than usually sociable. There appears to be a dose at which an individual's brain gets fixed and there is no benefit worth gaining from increasing this. Long term - We have little idea of what may be coming. I personally would love to read another book by OA or at least get his insights about his journey so far.

It seems to me that you would benefit from a small dose in much the way that Sunny has. You have kicked alcohol using self control and determination. If you subscribe to the theory that "it" is a disease then you are in daily battle with it - your position is stronger now than yesterday but still the threat and the need for daily vigilance remain. With a little baclofen you could possibly gain an enormous amount of quality time for yourself.

Not sure I know what happened to my ability for short succinct replies!

[bleep]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

I'm glad you lost the ability of short replies, that was a fantastic post.

I don't really have anything constructive to add, other than the obvious one about baclofen not being regarded as an addictive drug. Fairly useless, if you have to take it for the rest of your life, whether it is addictive or not, although you won't want more, I suppose.

[startingover]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

I know what you mean about the heroin Iggy, me too...plus any other opiates I could get. I had a blip when my mum died with her pain meds. In fact I think I nearly killed myself...
For me also, I seem to need some sort of chemical to keep me going. This stems right back from a tiny child where I was given sedatives, and drugs such as adrenalin for my asthma...
I now take Prozac to keep me happy and that seems to work...I have tried stopping it with disastrous results...
If my need were to escalate or become out of control, I would for sure consider bac. But for now, the thought of adding another drug to an already sizable daily intake (asthma and depression) or having to "score" albeit from a pharmacy really doesnt appeal. Having said that, the fact that there is something out here that I know works, is very very comforting.
Thank you for that wonderful reply x

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Before I digress, yes, that was a great post and thoughtful response to Starts. I disagree, of course, but what's new? :H
Now, to the reason I'm here this very early morning.

ignominious;1063763 wrote:
Karen darling. Muscle spasms would surely have worked but in my foolish innocence I thought that a logical approach should be used. After all they were doctors and employ reason and deduction every day plying their trade. More fool me. Part of my self growth is to stop expecting people and life in general fit together how it should. The crying tactic has never been very successful for me, doesn't seem to conjure up the knight in shining armour that you girls can achieve. I have suggested that she join a forum to talk about this but she was adamant that she wouldn't do it. I will suggest it again as MWO has been so helpful to me.

Jesus, Ig, sweetheart. You do know how to push my buttons. Logical approach? Walking into the office of a physician with whom you have no relationship and demanding high levels of a medicine to be taken by you in a faraway country off label with no supervision? How's that logical? And then questioning their commitment to helping others?
Perhaps you should stop expecting people and life to fit together how you think it should and start keeping your expectations in line with reality. The posts on here about the docs in England are resoundingly bad news. Worse than the ones in the US even.

Damsel in distress my ass. I know how to achieve my goals when I keep my eyes firmly fixed on them, and I have friends who help me out with that when I get distracted. Especially the gits who ruffle my feathers and help me remember that I "accomplish things." Ha. Yes. I do. Still do. I don't see any white horses in this living room, much less a knight. Sheesh. Those disappear almost as quickly as I conjure them. Fortunately I don't need them. I cry when I'm moved. When I'm humbled beyond endurance. When I need help and can't take another minute of my sorrow on my own. It moves people, for sure. I can also be a demanding bitch. As you know. :H I'm trying to figure out which is effective under which circumstances in order to help me get to the goal. Not in a manipulative way. In a most sincere, naive and honest way.
So nyah. nyah. nyah. nyah.
So feckin' glad you're bac.
Darling Karen/Ne

[ignominious]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Hopefully a quick post (I'm never sure nowadays) just to answer your concerns Ne.

I had hoped to appeal to the logic of the Doctors. Did I not mention that they were friends of the family, oh there it is.

ignominious;1063480 wrote:

I saw 2 Doctors in England. Both of them friends of the family.

About a decade ago one of them bought the family house, my parents still live in the same village, the other has a son who 30 years ago I taught to ride a bicycle. Therefore I had expected to be taken seriously and was somewhat surprised by the resistance that I met with, I assume that being a weak willed alcoholic was reason enough for them to ignore my arguments. Once again my hat off to OA.

I believe you agree with the direction I see my 'self growth' taking but you sound as if you think you came to a different conclusion. I'll put that down to it being early in the morning!

As for the crying part. Its high time in this post sexism, enlightened world that men should be encouraged to express themselves. With this in mind I shall cast my inhibitions to the wind and shed some tears next time I am unable to verbalise my emotions. I find it an endearing quality and I'm sure my customers will feel the same way.

Nice to be back sweetness. xo