Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

ignominious;1076191 wrote: I had no desire to get drunk whatsoever to get drunk on the 2nd occasion. I am not an alcoholic any longer, I dont think I am out of the woods yet with alcohol by a long shot. I still have issues with how much baclofen I'm taking, currently 110mg, and that I still haven't found another way to quell the torment inside me.

With you on all points. Hope you can find some way to quell the torment. I'm not feeling tormented, but I'm taking twice as much bac! ha

[bleep]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Hi Ig,

Sounds like the experiment was a success. Congratulations. 110mg's is not a dose to be frightened of, imo, there's nothing wrong with having to take a pill to maintain this, I don't think.

Good luck in the future.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Someone posted recently something about humming. ha! Remember the growling and the humming?
Tracy pointed out something about the vagus nerve? About how it was soothing or something? It was on the other thread (https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...677.html--also inspired by Tracy!) when you were still grappling with other Igs/Ids.
We were on to something, there, I think. Not the least of which was the ride to freedom.

So many full circle moments. (that's an Oprah-ism. :H)

I am suddenly awkward, again, here. A development that takes me bac to the start, too. Hope this isn't an 'oops', but no shock if it is. 'cause, hey, look at the time!

On to figure out what sobriety is... whatever it is, it's a helluva lot better than drunkeness. The view from this side of the bridge is clear, no fog. And so bright. Who knew? (we did.)

[startingover]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Still stalking you guys and loving the way you verbalise your thoughts, feelings and journeys.

[ignominious]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

The trouble I have with this baclofen stuff is that its a drug that's making me think differently. I know ........... that's the point ....... but its also a bit odd.

Someone in another thread was talking about it healing the world. Others, including myself, have had similar euphoric visions of utopia.

I live in a devoutly buddhist country where meditation, ridding your mind of thoughts and extracting yourself from the world is considered a good step towards godliness. A good poke in the arm with some heroin will achieve very similar results.

Is it not possible that those of us that have dysphoria or are anxious about the world are the sane members of the human race. If you can completely buy into the nonsense that is modern life then you won't feel uneasy and are unlikely too resort to alcohol to relax. Greed and desire for power will consume you and you will leave the planet worse off for your existence.

Bleep. I often feel 'under the influence' of bac. I'm a nicer person I'm sure. But I think I may have erred on the the side kinship too much in some recent business deals to my financial peril. I would be interested to hear if any one else has experienced this.

Ne. Good to see you're still in the saddle. I do remember the grunting/growling bit and although tongue in cheek it definitely helped me feel in touch with myself when my brain felt it was about to be shattered!

Hi Starts, how are you doing? Quite a lot of stuff on the boards these days. Haven't been following it all myself but its shaking some of the cobwebs off the bac laws.

[RedThread12]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Hi Ig: I'm definitely "under the influence" of bac (see TOO Much Baclofen thread I wrote this morning). So please take that into consideration if this seems offensive. Totally not my intention!

I just have a teeny-tiny thing to mention. Buddhist meditation actually isn't about ridding yourself of thoughts (ha! good luck!!) or extracting yourself from the world. Common misunderstanding, but misunderstanding, nonetheless. Here's a clip from a guy trained as a biochemist who is now a monk deeply involved with on-going scientific research about how mind-training (meditation) actually changes the structure of the brain in a beneficial way. Hardest work in the world, in my experience.
I think my meditation experience kept me out of deep shit last night.

Matthieu Ricard on the habits of happiness | Video on TED.com

Oh, and everyone's anxious, whether they drink or not. Except me, when I over-dose on baclofen and can't be bothered with anxiety because I'm too engaged in making sure the next breath comes. :H:H

[gratitude]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

I am not a guru... and I don't play one on t..v.
that being said my understanding of meditation is as follows. there is one energy in the universe. everything is this one energy. we think we are separate from this energy. this is what the mind does. separates and classifies things; good-bad, light-dark, etc. this separation is necessary for survival in this world- at first.
meditation is focusing on one thing-breath, candle flame,etc. as your mind wanders you bring your focus back to breath. this eventually calms the mind and takes it from higher frequencies to lower frequencies. beta to alpha to theta to delta.
the brain is divided into two halves-one of which is always dominant. unless you do meditation for a lot of years. meditation brings the two halves together through communication through the corpus collosum(sp?) hence whole brain thinking and less separation.
also, by focusing on one thing- breath or whatever you also realize that you are not your thoughts. that there is a watcher or witness behind the thoughts. this is the one energy of the universe being aware of itself.
o.k. TMI I'm sure.
someone else posted about oxytocin. this seems to have. hand in what you are talking about,ig. about empathy etc. hopefully they will chime in. gratitude

[ignominious]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Thanks to Red and grat for the replies. No offense could be taken Red, ftr I realised what I was saying was provoking but let it stand as is. Also its interesting to note the replies I got from people who have some understanding of buddhism, Fairly sure that it would have evoked harsher responses if I had likened christian priesthood to heroin addiction. I think the point I was trying to make is that on the face of it there are probably more similarities between being high on heroin vs deep meditation than differences. Of course there is a difference between the peace that comes from within and that which comes from outside influences.

Therefore the idea, expreses many times on these threads, that one can be completely fixed by baclofen is flawed. On the few occasions that I have heard OA in interview in English I have felt that he also maybe doing a less than adequate service to bac as a cure to alcoholism by concentrating too much on its therapeutic affects on anxiety. I feel that the message has become diluted to some extent. Baclofen has enabled me to stop drinking when nothing else could but it has not sorted out my dysphoria to my satisfaction. For that I need more. The evangelic adoration of all things baclofen has had me running for cover sometimes and I'm a convert!

[bleep]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Ig, I don't feel qualified to reply here, other than to say I follow your quest with great interest. I also wish you luck, for all the good that does!

Was sulpiride of no use to you?

[ignominious]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Bleep, you're just as qualified to help as I am.

I remember someone talking about sulpiride and another mentioning oxytocin or something. For the time I'm loath to add anything extra to the mix. I am trying St John's Groat and have no idea if its beneficial to me or not. Life seems a bit of a roller coaster at the moment, I look at each and every situation from a different perspective. How much is due directly to the baclofen and how much due to regaining/loosing my mind is still not certain. I plan to finish the bottle of St John's and then go a few days without and I may then be able to accurately assess its effect on me. May sound like I'm overdoing the caution but I don't want to be putting drugs into my 'temple' without knowing what they do!

You're a very positive force on MWO and you shouts of encouragement don't go unnoticed. I'm more comfortable with the intellectual than the emotional. Rather I should say I'm uncomfortable with the emotional and intend to correct that before the fat lady sings! That's my way of saying "thanks and it does help". Someone else gave me a good lesson in the benefits of emoticoms and lol's which I completely get intellectually but still don't feel comfortable with!

KOKO
Good luck to all
xo to all fellow baclofiends

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Hiya, Ig.

I've been gnawing at this psychosomatic SE thing for a while now.

I didn't want to contribute to anyone's angst by responding to it on someone's thread that is in the midst of suffering from dramatic side effects, for instance.

Nor on the ones where it quickly became a snide, snarky (though often humorous) gender war.

I take issue with the suggestion that SEs are psychosomatic. Have a real problem with the way it's been addressed so far, and would like to take the time to discuss it sanely and rationally on neutral ground.
So I brought it here.
Would you like to have a dialogue about this?
Ne
*or maybe we can do it off the boards if that makes more sense?

[ignominious]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Hi Ne I was very interested in talking about it which is why I started a thread with psychosomatic in the title. If you have questions please put them there so that the forum doesn't become more difficult to navigate. Hopefully the hysteria has played itself out on the Gender thread!

As for myself I have now got more than 4 months of sobriety under my belt. Reggie congratulated me on this on another thread but I feel like a cheat taking much credit for it. I've chosen to do the right thing a few times, been aware that alcoholism might catch me unaware some time so have been cautious when in high risk situations. But all in all its been ridiculously easy not to drink, thanks to baclofen. Other times when I have gone AF have been an hour by hour battle and if I'd ever got 4 months under my belt I would have been waiting to reward myself with a righteous piss up!

Since my last post about drinking I have had another 2 occasions when I've imbibed which now brigs it up to 4. On one occasion I didn't want to go against the flow, so joined in and had a few of the world renowned cocktails. I didn't feel drunk, my friends went on for some serious drinking and I went home where I found that the drinking disturbed my sleep. The next occasion was to repay a drink to someone from 6 months previously - I bowed out after 2 mugs of beers and every one was happy.

I'm sure now that I don't actually enjoy alcohol but acutely aware that my cavalier attitude towards it is very dangerous. We shall see and I shall report.

[beatle]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Ne/Neva Eva;1085289 wrote:
I've been gnawing at this psychosomatic SE thing for a while now.

I didn't want to contribute to anyone's angst by responding to it on someone's thread that is in the midst of suffering from dramatic side effects, for instance.

Nor on the ones where it quickly became a snide, snarky (though often humorous) gender war.

I take issue with the suggestion that SEs are psychosomatic. Have a real problem with the way it's been addressed so far, and would like to take the time to discuss it sanely and rationally on neutral ground.
So I brought it here.
Would you like to have a dialogue about this?
Ne
*or maybe we can do it off the boards if that makes more sense?

I agree with Ne. Your "psychosomatic" thread has become unwieldy and not conducive to a serious, focussed dialog. The thread as it stands (or did a day ago) is peppered with posts that deter from the focus.

I, too, would like to see the suggestion that SEs are psychosomatic discussed sanely and rationally on neutral ground.

I think it would be a great disservice, and quite cowardly to boot, to take it into the back rooms. Not of benefit to anyone except those participating.

[ignominious]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

I haven't posted for some time for several reasons. One, I've been away from my desk on a business trip and two that my last posts about psychosomatic considerations caused too much consternation.

I felt that I has been unfairly treated, insulted and ridiculed. My immediate reaction would have beeen to lash out at the perpetrators where it most hurts - I don't want to follow this modus operandi any longer and therefore this was not an option. It also appeared not to be an option to continue to speak my mind without being insulted again and quiet possibly causing others discomfort. I had hoped to find a place where I could resolve this issue and be able to come back here with a voice of compassion and understanding having had an epiphany about how to integrate this type of situation into one's life. Unfortunately I haven't found that peace yet! But I'm trying.

I reduced my dose to 90mg about a month ago. At this level I still felt indifferent to alcohol but I did agree to have a drink with an old buddy. After a few bears and several cocktails in 'good' company he wanted to carry on and I agreed. We returned to my home where we proceeded to demoloish several bottles of whiskey, he had to be poured into a car to get home and I blacked out just like old times. I think this is the 4th drink I've had post switch and probably the most 'normal' one for me. Since then I have felt in no way compelled to drink but the fact that I actually enjoyed and got the old time euphoria from drinking is significant. The conclusion I draw is that 90mg is 'on the cusp' and I feel, a good level for me too get in touch and hopefully to grips with my basic dysphoria.

I also tried Xanax for the first time after a couple of sleepless nights. 0.5mg knoched me out like a light. I tried it recreationally/experimentally the next afternoon and was unable to detect ant effect. Again in the evening it sent me quickly to sleep. I did feel slightly hung over the following morning and not full of beans. Someone told me that it would interfere with my REM sleep and although I don't know how much truth there is in that I don't feel that I had good quality sleep the 2 nights that I took it.

I also stopped St John Wort a couple of days ago after 2 months because it was doing nothing for me. I felt so down this morning that I started it again! The jury is still out!

[Cinders]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Ig,

Welcome back. I hope I wasn't one of those who treated you unfairly, insulted you, or ridiculed you. I know I responded to the posts about psychosomatic SEs, and very probably disagreed with you. However, I disagree with my husband all the time and yet we are still good friends and mates.

Am I to understand from your post that you are going to stay at 90 mgs because you are not indifferent at that dose and want to work on your other issues? I am curious why you would rather do that than go up past your switch and then work on the dysphoria?

I may have missed some posts in the past that would explain this. Do you think that Baclofen is adding to the dysphoria or masking it?

Have you talked to a doctor about your dysphoria?

I don't mean to be intrusive, but I know that would be a difficult way to live and I am hoping you find some relief.

I have read that the omega oils, 5-htp (and by default, then L-Tryptophan), Vitamin D, and L-Theanine and other Amino Acids can be helpful. St John's Wort is also listed as a natural aid.

But, based on your posts here at MWO, you probably know all that already.

Best of luck to you in finding a solution.

Love,
Cindi