Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

[bleep]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Good to have you back Ig. I won't go into details, other than to say the place you are looking for, the one where compassion and wisdom awaits - well, we are all looking for it! So far, in my case, without much success.

Murph has a theory that baclofen turns us into normal drinkers, if we choose, and normal drinkers do exactly that, get drunk on occasion. At times, I fully believe the theory, and it makes perfect sense to me. Other times, I'm not sure. Maybe our years of "training" allow us to get drunker than normal people could on that occasion, so we read more into it than we should? I don't know yet, but I think about it often.

[startingover]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Good to see you back and posting Iggy pop
For what its worth, I think you did the right thing. When the boards piss me off I take a sabbatical.
Really hope the SJW helps. I take prozac for a low mood and it seems to work (mostly)

[beatle]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Cinders;1095738 wrote: Ig,

Welcome back. I hope I wasn't one of those who treated you unfairly, insulted you, or ridiculed you. I know I responded to the posts about psychosomatic SEs, and very probably disagreed with you. However, I disagree with my husband all the time and yet we are still good friends and mates.

Am I to understand from your post that you are going to stay at 90 mgs because you are not indifferent at that dose and want to work on your other issues? I am curious why you would rather do that than go up past your switch and then work on the dysphoria?

I may have missed some posts in the past that would explain this. Do you think that Baclofen is adding to the dysphoria or masking it?

Have you talked to a doctor about your dysphoria?

I don't mean to be intrusive, but I know that would be a difficult way to live and I am hoping you find some relief.

I have read that the omega oils, 5-htp (and by default, then L-Tryptophan), Vitamin D, and L-Theanine and other Amino Acids can be helpful. St John's Wort is also listed as a natural aid.

But, based on your posts here at MWO, you probably know all that already.

Best of luck to you in finding a solution.

Love,
Cindi

I would like to copy and paste this with my signature at the bottom... but I'd probably get caught on that (these MWO-ers are too sharp, I tell you)

Plus, I'd have to add my bit about lithium orotate, etc...

[beatle]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

bleep;1095743 wrote: Good to have you back Ig. I won't go into details, other than to say the place you are looking for, the one where compassion and wisdom awaits - well, we are all looking for it! So far, in my case, without much success.
Not sure what you are alluding to here, bleep. MWO used to be exactly that place for me until recently. (Or was it a more metaphorical idea you were referring to?)

bleep;1095743 wrote: Murph has a theory that baclofen turns us into normal drinkers, if we choose, and normal drinkers do exactly that, get drunk on occasion. At times, I fully believe the theory, and it makes perfect sense to me. Other times, I'm not sure. Maybe our years of "training" allow us to get drunker than normal people could on that occasion, so we read more into it than we should? I don't know yet, but I think about it often.

I think you read into it what you want, and do with it what you want. And you decide what a "normal drinker" is by your own standards. If getting drunk on occasion is what you define as a "normal drinker" and that is what you want, then go ahead and pursue your goals based on that concept, which is what you want it to be.

In many cultures, getting drunk on occasion is not considered "normal", while drinking 2 maybe 3 glasses of wine on occasion (as in once or twice a year) may be considered normal. You decide. But indifference is still indifference. Wanting to drink to get drunk is not indifference, the way I understand it.

[Murphyx]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Beatle, I don?t think Ig said he wanted to drink to get drunk. It sounds to me like he wanted to continue the evening with his friend in the way that friends do and have done for millennia (at least in my culture), by drinking. That sounds completely normal to me. Although as you say, that may not be normal in all cultures, but then again in some cultures its quite normal to subjugate the poor, gorge oneself on the flesh of endangered species and marry close relatives. That all sounds entirely abnormal to me, but the English Royal Family swear by it, and look how Prince Charles turned out, that boy could have been an extra on Deliverance.

Ig, good to have you back. You have opinions and you must be able to voice them.

[bleep]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

beatle;1095781 wrote: Not sure what you are alluding to here, bleep. MWO used to be exactly that place for me until recently. (Or was it a more metaphorical idea you were referring to?)

In Ig's first post, he alluded to the metaphorical place, I think, that's what I was referring to as well...

beatle;1095781 wrote: I think you read into it what you want, and do with it what you want. And you decide what a "normal drinker" is by your own standards. If getting drunk on occasion is what you define as a "normal drinker" and that is what you want, then go ahead and pursue your goals based on that concept, which is what you want it to be.

In many cultures, getting drunk on occasion is not considered "normal", while drinking 2 maybe 3 glasses of wine on occasion (as in once or twice a year) may be considered normal. You decide. But indifference is still indifference. Wanting to drink to get drunk is not indifference, the way I understand it.

As I say Beatle, my mind wobbles around on this, I don't quite know what the answer, for me, will turn out to be. I'm enjoying debating it here, and with myself though, so any discussion is welcome.

[ignominious]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Cindi and others, thanks for your kind words.

I feel that at 90mg I'm not high on baclofen, I have zero SEs unless I concentrate on looking for the sensation as my next dose hits my blood stream. No somnolence, vertigo, forgetfulness. I feel much more grounded. I also feel more in touch with my dysphoria, which while not pleasant is also not delusional. I'm completely in control of my drinking but at this level I can more clearly see the things that would have set me off - I would like to resolve those issues internally rather than rely on a drug. Hope that makes some sense and doesn't make me sound too full of myself.

Starts. Yeah, none of us needs to be anywhere we don't want to be mentally.

Bleep and Beatle. Sure I was talking of the metaphysical place that we're all (hopefully) are looking for.

[LadyLush]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

ignominious;1095838 wrote: Cindi and others, thanks for your kind words.

I feel that at 90mg I'm not high on baclofen, I have zero SEs unless I concentrate on looking for the sensation as my next dose hits my blood stream. No somnolence, vertigo, forgetfulness. I feel much more grounded. I also feel more in touch with my dysphoria, which while not pleasant is also not delusional. I'm completely in control of my drinking but at this level I can more clearly see the things that would have set me off - I would like to resolve those issues internally rather than rely on a drug. Hope that makes some sense and doesn't make me sound too full of myself.

Starts. Yeah, none of us needs to be anywhere we don't want to be mentally.

Bleep and Beatle. Sure I was talking of the metaphysical place that we're all (hopefully) are looking for.

Iggy,
Glad you are back. I miss your knowledge. I apologize too if I caused you grief but I believe I was absent out on a binge at that time
I totally agree with what you are saying about being at 90mg. when I am around that number I feel in control. When I got to 180mg and/or near it I felt completely insane. I came back down instead of going up and I got my control for the moment back. I know (I think) there will be a time to go back up and past the insanity to get to the "real" switch but I need to be ready mentally and I just am not there yet. My "control" has kept me sober 8 days so far so I am going to stay here for awhile. Maybe I can hit the switch remaining steadfast at 80mg to 120mg? Time will tell.

Again, glad to have you back:l
Also are you both Igmominous and Ignominious? :-)

Lady

[ignominious]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Hello all. I thought that I'd mention that I am not trying to chastise any one for me being a wounded soul. I just wish I could find a state of mind where I was better equipped for dealing with with my emotions. OK 'nuff said.

Lady - glad to here you're still at the bac. Your 'control' that has kept you sober for 8 days is very much at the heart of the switch I think. The 'switch' being when exercising that control doesn't require undue willpower. I realised I'd hit my switch at 250mg and now I'm getting accustomed to using common sense I have been able to reduce my dosage. I hope you're able to find your switch at the lower dose, I feel that quite a few people have overshot their minimum switch dose out of eagerness, maybe this includes you. See how you fair at this dose for a while and if its not working for you then you have the option of increasing.

Bit of both Murph, didn't set out on the evening to get drunk but enjoyed the drinks more than in the last 4 months. Then I was a willing accomplice.

And yes I'm also the misspelt Ignominous, which I started posting as when I thought one drunken evening that I would write my first and probably only post on a forum and see what happened!

[ignominious]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Hi there and Happy New Year from Asia. Its water festival time here when everything closes and people turn out in droves to splash water on each other and celebrate.

My ingrained idea of a celebration is to have an understandable and viable reason to drink excessively! But that's not really what I want this year.

However yesterday my head was doing its usual, "Nothing's happening, everyone else is drinking, sun's out and hot, one cool lager would taste good and wouldn't harm and anyway one drunk day after so many sober is no big deal, no reason not to really."

Suddenly

I remembered that I had forgotten to take my previous evening's dose of 30mg bacllofen. When I noticed in the morning that I hadn't taken it, I didn't think a big deal, just get on the days dose and things will be fine. But when I started my old style justifications for getting drunk and remembered my missed bac I was quite shocked. I'm shocked how sensitive I am to a change in dose and shocked about how easy it could be for me to fall back to my old ways. I had almost forgotten how insidious and stealthy alcohol can be.

Coming Sunday I'm heading for the one AA meeting in town where I'll try to do some non pharmaceutical work on me loaf!

[tiptronic_ct]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Hey, Iggy

Way to go!

Interestingly, when I forget to take a dose (yes, it bloody well is happening more and more often), it is Mrs. T who generally notices first, with small changes in my behaviour.

She also sometimes asks me if if I've taken it when I am irritable for an entirely valid reason :H

[ignominious]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

Uncanny, humbling and a bit scary isn't it?

I'm on 90mg atm, whats your maintenance dose?

[tiptronic_ct]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

ignominious;1098634 wrote: Uncanny, humbling and a bit scary isn't it?

I'm on 90mg atm, whats your maintenance dose?

Very humbling indeed.

I'm on 70mg. Was on 45mg for a few weeks , but anxiety levels crept up. From time to time, I feel I could do with a p.r.n. dose of about 20mg every now and again, but I can't do that at the moment - I only have 70mg a day available to me on prescription.

Inhouse has now also suspended all deliveries to South Africa, so the taps have well and truly been turned off.

[PbarE]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

I have a question for both Tip and Ig.

Were you guys "only" alcoholics, or were you addicts as well? The reason I ask is that I am "only" a cocaine addict - alcohol was never my preferred substance. Also, I have not experienced indifference as you both describe it. And I went all the way up to 280 before the SE's kicked my ass.

I was wondering if this may be because I am an addict and not a "pure" alcoholic.

Having said that, bac has dramatically reduced my cravings, which I consider a great miracle. If that is the all I end up getting from bac, I am still a very satisfied customer.

But on the other hand, if I could reach indifference in the same way you both have, I am going to come up with a plan and increase my dosage. I am at 120 right now.

[tiptronic_ct]

Sobriety. From one who knows. A sober point of view.

PbarE;1098645 wrote: I have a question for both Tip and Ig.

Were you guys "only" alcoholics, or were you addicts as well? The reason I ask is that I am "only" a cocaine addict - alcohol was never my preferred substance. Also, I have not experienced indifference as you both describe it. And I went all the way up to 280 before the SE's kicked my ass.

I was wondering if this may be because I am an addict and not a "pure" alcoholic.

Having said that, bac has dramatically reduced my cravings, which I consider a great miracle. If that is the all I end up getting from bac, I am still a very satisfied customer.

But on the other hand, if I could reach indifference in the same way you both have, I am going to come up with a plan and increase my dosage. I am at 120 right now.

Hiya PbarE

I guess I could be classified as an Alkie only. I was always too scared of other narcotics like coke, acid etc and never tried it. I was afraid of becoming addicted to the stuff, little realising that AL had done that job already :H:H:H