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[bleep69]

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Ok, some definite side effects creeping in at 160mg's.

A not unpleasant feeling of being slightly stoned all the time. It's quite easy to work around, and function normally, and is in fact only really noticeable if I think about it, in which case it becomes very noticeable. My head seems to thinking differently from the way it normally does, if that makes sense. Thoughts seem more deliberate.

I'm also finding my concentration span is shorter, and my mind is wandering more. I just finished a phone call, and halfway through it I realised that I hadn't been listening at all, which was a shame, because it was quite an important call! It's only happened a couple of times, so not too bad so far.

I'm a leg-tapper, and this seems to be getting worse. Now I'm tapping both legs, faster than normal!

Also, when I'm walking, I have a slight feeling of falling forwards.

None of these SE's are unpleasant. Yet! The concentration thing is annoying, but tolerable.

[Grommet]

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Bleep,

I am at 135 mg now (up from 120 mg last week). I am having almost identical SE's as you describe. Nothing unmanageable, but I do have to "try" to concentrate during long meetings and/or conversations.

I am not a leg tapper, but I have always suffered from nervous energy. I need a cordless headset because I pace when on important phone conversations. I also used to be a pencil chewer, but I went to mechanical pencils and that took care of it :H. The positive is that Bac has reduced this nervous energy. I am much more calm in conversations/meetings which is allowing me to be more insightful (I think...).

None of these SE's have been unpleasant for me either. But I do have to make a conscience effort to listen and pay close attention during longer conversations.

How is your sleep?

[bleep69]

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Grommet;1040357 wrote: Bleep,

...I need a cordless headset because I pace when on important phone conversations...

...How is your sleep?

Hah, describes me to a tee, the pacing around with a phone pressed to my ear!

Sleep is ok, no issues yet. The only time I have issues with sleep, touch wood, is when I stop drinking. For a few days it's terrible, then it seems to sort itself out. I think the no-sleep issues may be because of my very rapid titration (there's that word again!), so perhaps the bac isn't in my system properly. Most people seem to have sleep issues, it seems, so I'm not expecting to avoid it.

[Isolde]

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bleep69;1040253 wrote: Ok, some definite side effects creeping in at 160mg's.

A not unpleasant feeling of being slightly stoned all the time. It's quite easy to work around, and function normally, and is in fact only really noticeable if I think about it, in which case it becomes very noticeable. My head seems to thinking differently from the way it normally does, if that makes sense. Thoughts seem more deliberate.

I'm also finding my concentration span is shorter, and my mind is wandering more. I just finished a phone call, and halfway through it I realised that I hadn't been listening at all, which was a shame, because it was quite an important call! It's only happened a couple of times, so not too bad so far.

I'm a leg-tapper, and this seems to be getting worse. Now I'm tapping both legs, faster than normal!

Also, when I'm walking, I have a slight feeling of falling forwards.

None of these SE's are unpleasant. Yet! The concentration thing is annoying, but tolerable.

Yes, yes and yes. I absolutely daze out in calls. If they are long, and especially if they are something I don't really need to pay close attention to, I will basically fall into a coma. It's harsh.
Leg tapping definitely worse at higher doses. Very nervous energy, sometimes it has gotten to the point that my whole body is just tense all the time.

For the concentration, you might want to try piracetam. I was forgetting absolutely everything, completely scatter brained. And once I started supplementing with piracetam again, those SEs got a lot easier to deal with.

[bleep69]

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Hi Isolde,

Thanks for the tip. I'm already taking more pills now than I ever have in my life, so I'm going to try avoid taking more, but if it gets any worse, I'll be in there like a shot!

The bit you said about your whole body being tense - It makes perfect sense, thats exactly how I feel, just hadn't realised it yet.

Concentration - I've gone back and fixed mis-spellings and typo's about 30 times already in this post!

It's really nice you aren't alone in this journey... Thank you.

[Lowcountryman]

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Hahaha, the telephone-thing
Didn't that bring a smile to face? Mostly made me laugh though. Being totally indifferent to what another person has to say to you.
I really had to write everything down.
The walking part also. Since my little one could walk, I've told her 'lift your feet'. Untill my brains were introduced to Bac and I stumbled across everything higher dan 2cm. Somehow the brain adjusts to that also. I may have been walking like a marching soldier for a few weeks, but eventually I lifted my feet like I should and I walk normal again.

Making a normal post or writing an e-mail without all the spelling-mistakes was for me virtual impossible. Took a long long time. Even in my native language, that I try to treat like the sweetest angel, it's a problem.

My vocabulary has been shrinking and shrinking during the journey. In both writing and in speaking. I could speak, just couldn't find the words.

[bleep69]

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Grommet;1040357 wrote: Bleep,

...

I am much more calm in conversations/meetings which is allowing me to be more insightful (I think...).

...

I missed this the first time around. It's exactly what I am feeling as well, I'm also not sure if I am actually more insightful, or it just feels that way! It's strange when you read something like this that describes how you are feeling, but hadn't yet consciously realised it.

I am on 200mg's today, and am feeling the same SE's as before. There is also an increase in libido. That sounds too clinical, scratch it - I am as horny as hell! Permanently! Drinking has always made me fairly horny, but this is a definite increase over and above the drinking-induced horniness. Again, a not unpleasant SE. So far I think I've been extremely lucky on the SE front... Touch wood...

Due to the complete lack of nasty side effects, I'll go to 240mg's tomorrow and reassess. I'm a little concerned with the speed of my titration (10 days to get this point from the start of Project Baclofen), but from what I've read here it seems people have quickly titrated up to the point where SE's became unpleasant and then slowly adjusted. Any thoughts you may have regarding this would be welcome!

Cheers,

Bleep.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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Dude, Did you miss this???

terryk;1038456 wrote: Without hijacking this thread, I'd first like to respond to Happyfeet's post:

1) During my long titration (7 months) to my switch @280mg/day I had some intense side effects. Some of the most troubling were a few (2 or 3) instances of an intense, life crushing depression. Worse than anything that I felt in my life. Not just down in the dumps and sit around and not do anything mope, but an almost panic-y I can't be in my body sadness. I could *tell* that it was almost certainly chemical, but it didn't make me feel any better. It would drive me to drink (I had not reached my switch yet) and that would make things worse. Eventually it resolved itself and hasn't returned.

2) I also experienced periods of rocketing high blood pressure (170/110) and edema (swelling of the ankles/feet) accompanied by anxiety. There seemed to be no rhyme, reason, or correlation to anything I was doing at the time that I could tell. My Bp is usually high (I'm on a beta-blocker, an ARB and sometimes a calcium channel blocker to keep it down). It too completely resolved itself so much that I stopped the calcium channel blocker and my pressure when to my personal best 128/74. It has since creeped up to low 140's/low 80's. It is my experience that baclofen raises systolic and lowers diastolic pressure.

3) Lastly, and this is just a hypothesis that I'm exploring and something I haven't mentioned before. About a week or two after I reached my switch, *I lost it* for a day or two. The only things I could pinpoint that I did differently around then were this: a) I ran out of Allopurinol, the medicine that I take to combat my gout, and b) I was drinking many "energy" drinks like RedBull, Monster Hitman, etc. to stay awake. I'll briefly mention that the lack of Allopurinol would cause a surge of Uric acid in my blood (uric acid is reported to be psychotropic) and the "energy" drinks contain a bunch of chemicals that may counteract baclofen's anti-craving mechanism (inositol is the ingredient that caught my eye:


This seems relevent to me because it mentions levels of the compound in the (cerebro)spinal fluid, where I believe baclofen's action begin at GABAb receptors, and because I believe that baclofen's anti-craving mechanism happens from a dopamine/serotinin modulation that is occurs downstream from the GABAb receptor (but is initiated at the GABAb receptor

To simplify, I'm saying that I believe that baclofen works more by changing the way the "feel good" chemicals dopamine and serotonin work in our brains and less by making us less anxious by working on our GABAb receptors. It's Just a theory and it's not important. What is important is this: Baclofen can cause intense side-effects and fast titration (up or down in dosage) can (and almost definitely will) multiply that intensity. In my experience, my body has (almost) completely adapted to high dose baclofen (still at 250mg/day after reaching my switch on Sept 26th, 2010 - 3 months+) I say almost because I still start to nod off in the late evening while watching tv and still get some residual tactile and visual sensations from time to time.

Happyfeet, I believe I have an idea of what you are going through and I wish you the best. For me, it completely resolved itself eventually, and I have good reason to believe that it will for you too. I can't say whether or not your rate of titration (up or down) played a part in landing you in your current predicament. I can say even less about the best way to navigate out of it, except maybe to recount a somewhat similar episode from my titration

(which is also somewhat of a response to Otter's original question):

I'll go into detail at some later time, but early in my titration (around 150mg/day) I had some of the terrible depression I've alluded to in this post. I decided to make a big push and jumped up to over 230mg/day for 5 days. I totally lost touch with reality, starting drinking *a lot*, wound up restrained in the ER (USA) where they admitted me for 5 days and restricted my baclofen intake to 80mg/day. The doctors there (highly respected US hospital) had no idea about high dose baclofen - one doctor even told me that it was poisonous. Ativan (lorazepam) kept me calm for a few days, but I wanted out of my stay in the hospital, so knowing that I had to be ativan free for 24 hours before they could release me, I started refusing it. I was incredulous that I was only given 80mg/day baclofen (at a very, very haphazard schedule - 2x a day, 4x, 3x, missed doses). Reality came back, but full on constant hallucinations, anxiety, and depression started. I didn't mention it, and had my partner sneak in extra baclofen that I immediately started titrating back up to 150mg/day. And here is the relevant response to Otter's question: for the next two days I had what felt like a scary low grade acid trip with only mild visual disturbances. *everything* looked dirty to me, I felt like everyone was looking at me and snarling, I realized while driving to work that the landscape appeared flat and 2 dimensional and that I had no business driving. Worst of all, I didn't sleep or close my eyes for more than 48 hours (my brain was racing). 24 hours no problem, but after night 2 of not a second of rest I ran out of my apartment at 3:30 am to a 24 hour convenient store and bought 2 bottles of mouthwash and chugged them both before the 200 yard walk back to my house. After about another terrible hour, I slept for about 2, which was the best thing in the world at that point. Not my finest hour, but that was the last alcohol I drank until I reached my switch 3+ months later.

I'm rambling and I apologize that my well thought out post has degenerated, but I'm late for an appointment right now. Like I said I will post more details later. And most importantly I don't want to scare people with this post. BACLOFEN HAS WORKED FOR ME, AND SAVED MY LIFE. I am ENTIRELY indifferent to alcohol. I will explain that in more detail later. Rapid titration was not a good idea for me, in fact, my titration had to be slower than that recommended by Ameisen or LeVin (who I have spoken to 4 times), and I'm a big (5"10", 220+lb 39 y.o.) crazy motherfucker who used to drink a bottle of scotch, a handful of pills, and still be able to run around gingerly with a full keg of beer slung over his shoulder. I'm not saying that rapid titration can't work for anybody, just not for me. More later, good luck to all. -tk 250mg/day reached switch @280mg/day Sept. 26th 2010
And just in case you need more:
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ons-47330.html

Also look back about 6 months and follow the people who gave up. Lots of them on the other threads right now.
Also, I just had what I still think was a seizure when I went from 200 to 240.
I know you're reading it all, and keeping yourself informed. I am NOT an expert. I am NOT pretending to be the resource for baclofen titration/taper!
This stuff can mess you up. Don't trifle with it. You asked for input and that's mine.
That said, no judgement. You've got to do you, and I'm hoping the switch is around the corner.
Good luck! Check in with the same regularity, will you?
:l

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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Also, find the post by Guardian about what his doctor said was the reason for slow titration. And the post by Ig about how 240-250 felt for him, if it's still around.
best, friend. That's all I've got, I swear!
ha!
prn is as needed

[Grommet]

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Bleep,

I cannot say whether it is too fast for you or not. I think L0op got to where you are in like 45 minutes

I started out the gate way too fast and a had an incident that scared the crap out me. It was around bedtime on a Saturday and I had had about 14 - 15 units over about 4 hours - standard fare for me on a weekend night pre-Bac. I was on 40 mgs and a week into Bac at that point and really wasn't feeling much. So I popped and extra 40 mg that evening. We live in an old Farmhouse with a steep, hardwood floor staircase and a brick floor at the bottom. I was going downstairs to get some water and at the top of the stairs I lost coordination. Luckily, I fell on my ass and only slid down a couple of steps.

Now this is something I have done for years on 14 - 15 units and have always been able to do it like a ballerina. I am pretty sure my body wasn't ready for that high a dose that quick which is why it happened (couple with the AL, of course).

So, cheap lesson learned. I then made the decision to go up real slow. I started 11/19 and today am on 135 mg. Never had a problem like that since. In fact, my SE's have been ordinary and manageable and I am functioning fine even on the nights I drink. I take my last regular dose at 6:00 pm with a smaller "top off' dose when I am in bed. And I will never again go outside my dosing schedule. Also, now I just fill up my water from the bathroom sink before I go to bed.

This incident was purely a result of my own irresponsibility and it could have happened on benadryl. I have never taken prescription drugs before (other than antibiotics) and I was stupid and naive.

Don't mean to be a bummer, but as Neva said, you did ask for feedback...

[Lo0p]

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Grommet;1041010 wrote: I think L0op got to where you are in like 45 minutes

Well, no. Technically it was day 2 before I hit 250. I kinda hate saying it now though. Aside from me there was paulslice and that's it I think.

[bleep69]

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Hey Neva,

Thanks. Will hunt those threads down. I read the thread you quoted, but if I'm not experiencing these grotty SE's, does it apply? Not being funny, genuinely curious. I'm not trifling with it, I can certainly feel that it's a powerful drug. But since it different for each individual, surely I can go to the level at which the bad SE's kick in and then slow down? I hope this post comes across in the genuinely curious manner in which I wrote it...

[bleep69]

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Grommet and Lo0p, thanks for the responses - you posted while I was replying to neva.

Lo0p, what dose did you hit your switch at? Nice to know that I'm not a statistical outlier here!

Grommet, no bummer at all!

[Lo0p]

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300

[bleep69]

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Lo0p;1041054 wrote: 300

Wow, and you were on 250 almost straight away? That gives me a lot of hope! Thanks. I'm sure I read your thread, will have to go back and refresh...