Sever Debilitating Depression

[Bruunhilde]

Sever Debilitating Depression

For Happy Feet

Hiya Happy,

I have those feelings too, and I've been self-flogging constantly. Two things I've been working on to reduce the crushing depression and make it manageable - and they have helped, are to read a few books that bring a bigger perspective to your life, and also help you reframe your thoughts.

By perspective, I mean, whatever your religious beliefs are (or aren't), doesn't matter here, when I say, the purpose of your life may be much bigger than this one life you're living and supposedly screwing up. I bought a few books on life after death experiences, hypnotherapy (which also helps in the reframing your thoughts bit), and a few books on spirituality, exploring what it could be outside the definitions of organized religion. I personally found it comforting to think that this life may be just one step in a much larger learning experience. All the things you think you screwed up are tiny things in the big picture, nothing to beat yourself up over. We're all in the same shoes, to some extent. I like the idea that I haven't blown my whole opportunity to have fulfillment, even if I am in my 40's and still fighting the beast. It's a gift that we have this forum to share with each other.

Regarding reframing your thoughs - by this I mean to change the things you say to yourself, which causes the depression to multiply in severity because you're constantly berrating yourself. Catch yourself saying negative things to yourself about your life/choices/etc., and stop it, and replace it with "I am fine" "I will be okay" and grow it from there to more life-affirming phrases that fit with your ideal life, retrain your automatic thoughts to more positive messages. If you don't feel like it, fake it til you make it. Mother yourself. Treat yourself like you would have liked to have been treated as a child. Be nice to HFeet.

Create hopes and dreams too .... that's where I struggle, my dreams start with a giant lotto win.

[happyfeet]

Sever Debilitating Depression

Thanks for responding Fletch,

And, I know that I have to look at things from a "where I can go from here perspective," but to be honest, I just don't seem able to start those more positive thoughts right now. I keep trying, but I am just not moving past the "what's the point," "you had countless opportunities for happiness." Sorry - it is melodramatic and wimpy, I know, but I just don't think I can find a place where i can live with those wasted chances. Maybe just too much water under the bridge.

[taw]

Sever Debilitating Depression

Happy, now you have so many more opportunites, sober, and able to make the most of them...I feel your pain...I know exactly how you are feeling...there is never too much water under the bridge if you are doing something to get healthy and make your future better...maybe it is just a different bridge...You have a whole new sober world open to you that maybe had never been considered before...

It is scarry, I know, but if you want it, it is there for your taking ..you are in charge, not AL...don't let the non drinking part of the disease get the better of you....

[Bruunhilde]

Sever Debilitating Depression

Happy, I know exactly what you're saying.

Maybe you can try this. Every time a thought like "if you hadn't been prioritizing drinking for the last 20 years, you might have had financial stability by now or a family, but now you're alone and it's because you're a loser" - just STOP IT. That's all. Just focus on that. It's much more do-able than replacing with something else right now.

Eventually I was able to start a little replacement thought that was a little positive, but when I can't, at least I stop the bad. It really helps if you keep doing it, all the time. Please try it. If you can't do it, please find a Pdoc, to help you do it. We all need help sometimes. I'm worried about you.

At the very least, you know you're in lots of company here - alot of people feel like we do here, and many more lurk. That's what I find most comforting here, is that everyone else has been there. Do you ever stop typing thinking, "I can't say that" and realize, that here, yes you can. You are in the company of hundreds of people with the same issues.

And I read this past week that 90% of the human population have negative scripts running in their heads. So even non-addicts/alkies have this issue. You could talk to friends and family about it without being specific about your concerns, they'd relate to the negative thinking.The older you get, the more resistant you are to change that, but I think we have to change it, or things will get even worse.

Think of ten years from now, what if you find yourself looking back and thinking "I wish I hadn't wasted the last ten years beating myself up, I could have been so much happier?" That's what I keep reminding myself, to stop coming up with excuses to not live a better life NOW. The last thing we need is more regret!!

Its never too late, it's never too late, it's never too late!

[Bruunhilde]

Sever Debilitating Depression

And may I say, Happy, you are brilliant. You and Otter are da bomb. All that information, and being able to speak the speak, brilliant.

[Bruunhilde]

Sever Debilitating Depression

Otter;1039280 wrote: The pharmaceutical industry now recognizes that serotonin deficiency can be treated by increasing serotonin levels. What genius!

I was waiting for this to happen, it seems like it took a long time for them to figure it all out. You steal from Peter and give to Patty, Peter will have less and he will *eff with your life.

[happyfeet]

Sever Debilitating Depression

Thanks Fletch,

just wish I could get some sort of fire lit here that is all ... hope->spark->fire .. accordingly, fire goes out, snuffs out spark, eliminates hope.

And I've got a lot of intellectual skills (as do many or most people on this site) ... just none of them are very marketable that's all - no real need for the intellectual jack of all trades these days - in retrospect, I would have been happy to trade some IQ for just a little more EQ way back when.

It is funny, you know - I look at all the people that seem to be in similar straits here, and I can't help but think of all the untapped talent and underutilized skills that are probably out there. It is hard to get things going over a certain age re: credibility (ie. ... "so what exactly have you been doing for the past 5/10/15/20 years?" ... "if you have the talent, why aren't you a success?" .... ), but I wonder how many people on here have skill sets and abilities that would blossom drug/AF free if only they were given a true chance for an outlet. Could these people help each other out ... sort of addicts helping addicts thing .... kind of a nice "nya, nya, nya, nya, nya" to the "you're all just weak" aspect of the world at large. After all, this is a community here on MWO in a very real sense, and I wonder if or when communities like this will take the very real next step into connecting across the real world as well. And I do fully realize that the community here is already helping people out in the most essential and profound way possible - ie. helping people free themselves of addiction .... I just wonder if the community could actually become Community ..... Well, anyway - that was just some ephemeral offshoots of a deflated mind ...

Oh, and to Otter - I know you were asking about the delerium factor, so I was wondering if you found this study - Delirium Associated With Baclofen Withdrawal: A Review of Common Presentations and Management Strategies -- Leo and Baer 46 (6): 503 -- Psychosomatics ... It hypothesizes a link between hypersensitive dopamine receptors (from Baclofen use) and the delerium which can accompany Baclofen withdrawal (up to 4 days after ceasing use) . Specifically, it says

"With continued use of baclofen, continuous inhibition of monamine neurotransmitter systems leads to emergence of supersensitive dopamine and noradrenergic receptors. Sudden withdrawal of baclofen would cause a disinhibition of previously suppressed monoamine pathways, that is, a release of norepinephrine and dopamine onto supersensitized receptors, leading to autonomic arousal (e.g., tachycardia, hypertension, agitation, restlessness) and delusions, hallucinations, and delirium.20,30 "

Sigh ... I could sure do with some hypersensitive dopamine receptors about now.

[Bruunhilde]

Sever Debilitating Depression

I know what you mean, Happy, I do know what you mean. I have alienated the three closest friends I have by being negative and doom-seeking, and envying their "free ride" with federal pensions. Financial insecurity after working since I was 14 floors me.

I think the only thing that is keeping me from being really depressed like that (which I was last week) is what Neva and Lo0p posted - the bit NE posted about the Dr saying that she would, after AF, smarter and sweeter and nicer, and her body would revert to her pre-AL state. Lo0p posted his before and after pictures.

AND many others posted their journeys here, with all of the details, which helps give me the roadmap to AF or MOD, which gives me the spark of hope. Believe me - there's been no hope for several years here.

As described, I've mostly stopped the mean voices in my head, and been pretty good about it. Being looping on bac helps me space that out when it comes crashing in on me.

Now I need to stop the blaming voice, which tries to shift my failures to others' shoulders - whether it's my mother, my brother, etc. I can find a scapegoat for every foible. However, I find if I can repeat to myself that I forgive them, and I forgive me, that it helps.

Last, I've stopped visualizing all the gloom and doom I feared for my future, at least for now. (Next week you may need to kick my ass for glooming and dooming online, so I'll expect it!)

One thought I keep close to my heart is that all sorts of people swear that visualization and expectation create your future, so I don't want to visualize/expect the worst. Instead, I visualize things I might want, I don't know what I want though, having spent so many years hiding, but I'm trying things on for size, and not limiting my imaginings to what I think constrains me in my current reality.

[Otter]

Sever Debilitating Depression

Hi

Yes, I have that article. I was looking for precise examples of the sort of hallucinations it causes which has been answered on my other thread.

Have you read Seven Weeks to Sobriety? You can read about it at Health Recovery Center

It is a must read for anyone with alcohol problems and the treatments are natural. They do work. We tried them. You have to read about depression and L-Tryptophan and Melatonin. It is probably the best treatment for alcoholism pre-baclofen and and I think a lot of what is used by them is necessary in addition to Baclofen. Their pills are quite expensive though and you can get most of it elsewhere more cheaply but it is well worth trying. Apart from anything else, when my wife used it her hair, skin and nails improved to the point she looked about 10 years younger. It relies a lot on high doses of calcium!

I thoroughly recommend getting the book.

Best wishes

[Bruunhilde]

Sever Debilitating Depression

I think you can't take melatonin until you quit the bac, right?

[Bruunhilde]

Sever Debilitating Depression

Happyfeet, are you okay?

Hi Happy, I've been wondering if you're okay, you were so down in this thread. Are you okay? Please let us know!

[happyfeet]

Sever Debilitating Depression

Yes, I'm still here, and I am feeling a bit better. I have stabilized my use back to around 160 mg a day and the worst of the empty hollowed out feeling in my chest has receded, but the overall malaise is still there. Still have elevated blood pressure though, and that pressure band around my head feeling ... and various cognitive deficits. I will stay at this level for a few days and then try and come down very slowly.

I still feel empty at the thought that having this whole experience 15 years ago (the first time I decided enough was enough and tried to quit) would have resulted in a truly successful life in all aspects. I think that what is happening here is more than just biological/drug induced depression, mid life crisis and/or "closing a chapter on my life" blues - I think the Baclofen has removed a film of confusion regarding consequences that I think I have had all my life. I have always been rationally aware of the negative consequences of my behaviour re: long term health/near term social/career destruction, but that has never been enough to stop me before. In this, I have always thought that I (and maybe many of you) am just a little bit different than other people. Many or most people seem to make this connection with little difficulty and, therefore, have simply no understanding of why an addict continues to repeat such obviously destructive behaviour. It has always seemed to me to be like a small level of fearlessness or mania that keeps the connection from being made. Is this a result of the dopamine/BDNF/proprioception thing?

Perhaps (or probably really), but now I think I see things clearly in this regard (despite being muddleheaded and searching for words on Baclofen which is driving me crazy). The actions have consequences idea has more power ... in regard to many other choices I have made or will make as well, which is the truly odd part.

So, to answer the question - my roiling, reeling, complete and overwhelming despair has evolved into a constant but nagging feeling of regret and loss. Maybe next week will be better.

[Bruunhilde]

Sever Debilitating Depression

Glad to hear from you H,

You said: I still feel empty at the thought that having this whole experience 15 years ago (the first time I decided enough was enough and tried to quit) would have resulted in a truly successful life in all aspects.

I feel the same way. Except its 25 years. To me, you're catching it early. Just think, if you did it ten years later, like me. There's always more to regret if you think about it enough.

And yes again ... my drinking buddy and me used to think all the non-drinkers were no fun, and had no joy. Little did I know that they had the secret and I had no clue.

I'm finding bac keeps me so spaced out, that I'm not obsessing (to use a favorite word of NE) on the gloom and doom like I naturally do. Maybe that's because it removes anxiety.

Glad too that things are a bit better for you. It reminds me of a conversation with a friend a went who went AF 15 years ago, and he said to me at one point, "life without booze isn't that great either" ...

And I said, that's why we started to drink in the first place. I really feel strongly that (probably because I've read it in several places/books including Seven Weeks and Depression Free Naturally) that we drink to ease life, because we don't cope well with certain aspects of it. We don't develop our coping mechanisms enough to withstand the faulty wiring in our brains, and then we get behaviorally and physically addicted and it's almost impossible to stop. When we stop, I, at least, feel like I'm missing out on some fun, and escape, and I don't have the 25 years of emotional growth my counterparts have. I don't have many tools to cope with this, nor with the stress that encumbers me daily, the gloom and doom thoughts. They take me over, sometimes, and my poor friends and family suffer as much as I do, then. One thought I've tried to banish is the thought that I am unable to banish the thoughts or the AL.

So, I'm becoming expert at banishing the negative thoughts, if nothing else.

[hangingoninFL]

Sever Debilitating Depression

Hi guys, some of you may remember me posting from last July through November, then I kind of drifted off the boards, just lurking occasionally. This thread got me to sit up and take notice.

Happy feet posted about feeling grief and despair over a wasted life. I could have written almost every word of that entire post, it sums up perfectly how I have been feeling for the past several weeks. As the thread title says, a severe, debilitating depression, which has caused me to isolate myself, including no longer posting.

I too, have lost countless career opportunities and wasted +$100K dollars over the last several years, due to either alcohol, or trying to recapture youthful memories (I am in an EXTREME mid-life crisis). I have lost my marriage, my drivers license, strained my relationship with my children, etc. etc.

However, these losses did not occur overnight, nor did my alcohol use increase overnight. A year ago, I was in these same circumstances, yet I still had a very positive, hopeful outlook. In July I started taking BAC, and it was shortly after that when the depression started. I have to believe there is a correlation. For that reason, I have vacillated back and forth between titrating up and down, which has also led to an up and down in my drinking.

I am at a crossroads - I don't want to continue to drink, but I CANNOT continue to suffocate under this blanket of depression, because the end result could be just as bad, or worse, than if I continue to drink.

[happyfeet]

Sever Debilitating Depression

Hi Hanging,

As I said earlier, the world tilting despair that I felt last week has receded somewhat; however, I still feel totally empty inside, and I do think that it is Baclofen related, but I don't necessarily think it is making me "depressed (I will explain why shortly)." In addition, I don't think I am experiencing either a serotonin or a dopamine deficiency (although dopamine may have had something to do with my mood last week ).

When I look at my life now, it is highly depressing, but I also think I am looking at it with total clarity. I do think we walk through life with rose-coloured glasses on for the most part, and I think Baclofen is acting to remove the filters I normally possess. As I also said before, I think there is a certain suspension of disbelief that goes into addiction, whereby the cravings or urges completely override our logical awareness of cause and effect. In my case anyway, I think that inability to connect cause and effect in the long term has been responsible for a lifetime of poor choices and ridiculous pie-in-the-sky hopes and dreams. I do believe the brain mechanisms underlying a lot of my decisions in addiction and in life are related, and, one day, I am confident medical science will be fine-tuned enough to truly address these issues for future generations. Unfortunately, that doesn't do me much good (or you), and it certainly doesn't give back the time lost.

Whether I can learn to live with being a failure, I just don't know at this point, but I am going to try a meditation class tonight ... and you can take some solace in the fact that at least you live in Florida ... I will have to brave -15 on the way to class (and total darkness on the way home from work) ... yeah ... fist pump for Canadian winters.

P.S. And I have been to a psychiatrist to discuss this and have gone in the past ... then as now, I feel no better for the experience. And anti-depressants are not the answer - they as well have had no effect on me in the past, so I see no reason to believe that they will miraculously start working now ... besides, the idea of taking any more drugs just makes me want to scream. ... pills by the bedside, pills in the medicine cabinet ... for me (and only for me!), and for the first time in my life, I just want to run and hide from a life like that.