Indifference.

[Bruunhilde]

Indifference.

beatle;1087704 wrote: -We all know withdrawal can be dangerous. But Bleep doesn't intend to go through withdrawal. He intends to find out at what point he starts to feel "odd".

-Bleep has no intention of going off baclofen permanently. In the post, he reckons he might be on it for the rest of his life. I think he just wanted to try depriving himself for a short time to see how long it would take before his body would start to react to the lack of bac.

Ok, he has an odd kind of curiosity, but one I understand (then again, I'm one of the wall bangers:bang), and as long as he is careful, it could be of some interest.

Yes, I know, and I still think it could be dangerous. I'm confused beatle, are you for or against? This note makes it seem like you're all for the great experiment but your most recent post seems to be more cautionary like mine.

[beatle]

Indifference.

Bruun, I can see my two posts seem contradictory. My initial reaction was "why not?". I didn't think it would be too risky (still don't), and it seemed like a reasonable reason to do it.

After cogitating on it, I started to realize that maybe it wasn't necessary and to question Bleep's real motivation. Which is where I stand now.

I don't think he really needs to do this, I think he wants to do it. But I still don't see it as terribly risky or dangerous, so who am I to tell him what to do?

I added the element of questioning his motives... not that it's really important in the end. I guess I should have left that bit out... but then again, I think it's somewhat interesting. Perhaps Bleep himself is not aware of his other, or "real", motivation in this experiment. Or perhaps it's just bs.

Assuming he will go ahead with it, which we have every reason to believe he will, I was just offering what little advice I could regarding seizures, which is the worse-case scenario, I believe.

As I said, I think it is very unlikely based on what I know about alcohol withdrawal, and gave some advice what to do in case.

I think information like this (for worse-case scenario) together with his very careful plan, will make it a non-risky endeavor (that's personal opinion, not medical advice), and if he wants to do it, for whatever reason, he is prepared.

[TracyA]

Indifference.

The Bleepster comes across as a thrill-seeker to me too.

Maybe he is subconsciously planning a relapse. If so, I don't imagine it will go well (do they ever?). Not terribly important, like Beatle said.

Either way, he is very knowledgeable about bac. It's his life, his choice, and I completely agree with Beatle that it would be an excellent idea to have some back-up just in case something suddenly goes wrong.

But, I'm still betting on the thrill-seeking aspect.

[bleep]

Indifference.

Hmmm. This is interesting.

I'd like to think I'm not doing it for the thrill seeking aspect of it. It's giving me the willies, to be honest. I've told Mrs Bleep, she is okay with it, but not delighted. My main reason is simply to know how much time I'll have for that shitty day when your suitcase is stolen on holiday, or something like that. I think that's my main reason. Like I say, recent posts have made me question this somewhat.

If it turns out that I make it all the way to Saturday evening, I think I'll declare the experiment over, and conclude I have at least a full day of time in which to source more baclofen.

I am a thrill seeker, no doubt, but I don't regard this as a thrill. Thrills are fun, this is definitely quite horrid.

[bleep]

Indifference.

TracyA;1088706 wrote: ...
Maybe he is subconsciously planning a relapse. If so, I don't imagine it will go well (do they ever?).

...

It's tricky, as an avowed moderator, to plan a relapse, I think. It would be a physical impossibility to go on a bender these days, my heart is just not in it anymore.

Can you relapse from moderation? I'm on an AF stint at the moment, but it's hardly a life or death thing for me.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Indifference.

I haven't read all of the comments here. I'm sure they are well reasoned and sound suggestions.

Dude, look. don't forget your damn pills. Don't go on holiday. Carry them on your person. You're being silly with the what-ifs.

I'll give you a what-if. what-if the SEs when you start bac up are uncomfortable. What if you channel Jack? what if you undermine that beautiful balance you've achieved in your brain.

WHAT IF you give your brain and body a chance to heal and assess and make rational decisions? What if you give this a couple of months without any more too much or too little. What have you got to lose?
just sayin
Don't fucking leave the pills behind. It's not rocket science.
You know I like and respect you, but this is ... well. I'll leave that to you to decipher.

How many diabetics/chemo recipients conduct this kind of test? The ones who don't want to be well... hmmm.
just sayin

[coalfire]

Indifference.

Good luck(gulp!). I hope its not another coffee tale in the making. I understand that you plan on taking Bac the moment you feel funny. I don't know how easy it is to reverse the withdrawal process. At what point is it too late? I gather that you are banking on the fact that you can control it ie feel funny/swallow Bac/feel fine within an hour. Maybe you can. Maybe the tipping point for seizures etc is lower than you think. I am just thinking of epileptics. They don't see always see their seizures coming. Thats why they sometimes have them in public places. I know you don't have epilepsy but you get my point. Anyway I get the feeling that you wont be happy until you do this. Be careful and remember the curious cat and his fate. Anyway here is an interesting article on non compliance with meds and why people make this choice. I understand that you have said that this is a one off and that you dont plan on being non compliant generally but its an interesting article anyway.The medicine refuseniks | Society | The Guardian

[bleep]

Indifference.

Thanks for the article CF, an interesting read. Don't know if I would go so far as to lose my hand because I didn't want foreign chemicals in my body though!

I'm quite happy with the thought of taking baclofen for the rest of my life - I was going to take 2 bottles of wine per night otherwise, so it seems a fair trade.

People are saying that the reversal of withdrawal might not be so easy. This has me a little worried, to be honest. If anything, I am going to err on the side of caution as a result, but I imagine it will be fairly easy to reverse withdrawal. I'm hoping terryk or 37 or someone like that reads this and chimes in before D-Day, but I'm sure I'll be fine.

Wing and a prayer, and all that...

I have to say, it feels odd not to have taken my pills. I'm much more tired than I would be normally, so it's off to bed for me quite shortly. Perhaps I'll sleep the whole night.

[redhead77]

Indifference.

Sweet dreams bleepster. 37, doesn't post here anymore. He rarely visits this forum in general.

[TracyA]

Indifference.

bleep;1088999 wrote:
Wing and a prayer, and all that...I have to say, it feels odd not to have taken my pills. I'm much more tired than I would be normally, so it's off to bed for me quite shortly.

Okay, a wing and a prayer, but no dreams of wing mirrors. Especially cracked ones! I know you will error on the side of caution because you are a sensible nut. But when you wake up, keep talking to us just so we know you are okay, k?

Speaking of "k," a funny story. Some hopeless nerdy young adolescent got her first cell phone and was learning text-speak. She didn't quite get the point of it. She was sharp enough to see "k" as an acronym for "okay." But she thought it would be clever to instead of responding "k" to type in "potassium."

Have a good night, Bleep.

[Cinders]

Indifference.

bleep,

Please take care. Stopping abuptly is dangerous.

I take other meds with the same consequence. I stopped them all at once one time because I was just danged tired of taking them.

The consequence is that I had a seizure. Not an alcoholic seizure, a seizure from stopping my meds (the inserts told me that if I did that, it might happen, but did I believe it?? No. I am stronger than that.)

If you have a seizure that is documented by the medical society or police, you will lose your license to drive for six months until they know you won't have another. Go figure. No drivers having seizures.

I was stupid. Please don't be stupid.

Cindi

[coalfire]

Indifference.

We want to hear from you early in the morning Mr Bleep!!! For what its worth,I have a feeling that you are a jammy git and will probably be fine:H

[Murphyx]

Indifference.

Bleep, you're mental!

[terryk]

Indifference.

bleep;1088999 wrote: I'm hoping terryk or 37 or someone like that reads this and chimes in before D-Day, but I'm sure I'll be fine.

I felt my ears burning...I'm not sure exactly what's going on , but if you're going to induce withdrawal for an experiment I think that it's a really bad, bad, fucking bad idea. Mostly from the literature, I gather that baclofen withdrawal really starts to take hold after 3-4 days of abrupt cessation. Just like alcohol withdrawal, severity of the withdrawal is largely related to the length of time a person has been using the substance. A few months of high dose baclofen is enough to expect (but not guarantee) problems. I went from 235mg/day to 0mg for 36 hours and then 80mg/day for 3 days when I started have total constant hallucinations (birds/flies everywhere in my field of vision), people snarling at me, terrible sweating, and my perception of 3D perspective and depth perception pressed flat like a picture. I started titrating back up on day 4, and didn't close my eyes, much less sleep for more than 2 days. And it took a week before I felt l was normal (as in normal for titrating up on baclofen with lots of side effects normal). For me I feel that the baclofen takes a day or two to really establish its effect in my system. I reached my switch a few (2-3) days after I increased to my final switch dose (an experience I've read many times here). My point is that, if baclofen's effect take a day or two to fully kick in, waiting until withdrawal starts to get bad might be difficult to remedy in a timely manor. Just a possibility. And then there' s kindling, which may or may not be relevant here, but could make future withdrawal from baclofen even more difficult and unpleasant. Sorry for the sloppy post. -tk

[Cinders]

Indifference.

Not a sloppy post at all Terry.

I probably didn't state the case strongly enough.

Don't freaking mess around with Baclofen.

Titrate down slowly if you want to get off of the med.

I ignored my doctor's warning about my anti-seizure drugs (I never had a seizre before, the drugs are for pain management.) and went off of them abuptly.

I had a seizure.

Do not do this voluntarily.

One of the things this site is about is understanding the risks.

Please be careful.

If you get through it safely, great.

If you don't? Then what?

Cindi