Indifference.

[bleep]

Indifference.

Thanks Bruun. I just realised I have mis-reported my dose - my titration schedule of x by 30mg's was based on 10 times a day, but with my erratic sleep, I have been taking every dose, so it's actually 360mg's a day, down from 400mg's. I have altered my first post accordingly.

For the first time in a while, I am adjusting to the dose, and that stoned feeling is starting to wear off.

Baclofen is not an easy drug to take, as you know, despite my relatively easy ride on the SE front. I would wish it on both my worst enemy and best friend though, if they needed it.

[Sunnyvalenting]

Indifference.

I think any habit change needs be at first quite intentional. It is only after practicing the change that it begins to feel natural. When I started the good habit of exercise and diet it took a lot of planning at first to overcome the natural inertia. I don't think just thinking about changing our relationship with alcohol means we are not succeeding with baclofen. After all we are all on these boards for the very same reason so we must be thinking about it and acting on those good plans. Why else would we be here? What is different for me on bac is that alcohol crosses my mind without getting stuck and without me having to act on the thought of drinking. Before baclofen, even the thought of drinking would regularly lead me to the action of drinking. It startled me at first to be at "perfect drinking opportunities" and not reach for the booze. That to me, is the goal and allows my continued permanent abstinence. I had lost hope of ever reaching this state. Now I take it for granted. What a change.
sunny

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Indifference.

Really great post, bleep. Thank you for that.
I'm still unclear about drinking thoughts vs. thinking about drinking. Though I know I'm being obtuse. I'll have a 'well, duh' moment probably. In the meantime, would you elucidate?
Sunnyv, your post was also very helpful. Thank you.

[Guest]

Indifference.

I think what SV is saying is that things need to be practiced before they become second nature. I have had periods where I've followed diets and at first it feels very odd, boring and sometimes difficult. But after a while you get used to the foods you are eating, and in fact they become very tasty, and spreading your eating out during the day becomes routine - abit like oh it's 3 o'clock I have my fruit now. After a while you find you haven't thought about a single packet of crips(chips in the US I think), haven't touched pastry or chocolate for some time and it doesn't bother you. Same with exercise, initially it's a real drag but do it regularly for long enough and it's just automatic. It just becomes second nature, but you have to get over the initial uncomfortable phase first, which is where the effort has to be put in.

[Guest]

Indifference.

That can be a difficult one NE. AL takes up such a lot of thoughts and actions when it's a problem, that it's a bit odd when not there anymore.

One thing I've been told to do if I get a drinking thought is to recognise it for what it is, and then say "Ok, I'm having a drinking thought, hmm bye bye" and get back to whatever you were doing. Sort of acknowledging it then moving on, rather than continuing the train of thought. For me it's the effect not the taste so much, but I do get flash backs occasionally.

[bleep]

Indifference.

neva eva;1049396 wrote: ...
I'm still unclear about drinking thoughts vs. thinking about drinking. Though I know I'm being obtuse. I'll have a 'well, duh' moment probably. In the meantime, would you elucidate?
...

I'll give it a bash, not very eloquent at this sort of thing...

When I thought about drinking before, it wasn?t a thought, it was a way of life. The thought would involve the where, when and how of booze, and it would be instant. Invited to a gathering, I had calculated which bottle stores were on the way, whether there was a bar there or not and what time they closed, etc, and it was all instant and unconscious.

Now, it?s actually a thought, and mostly still habit, I think. I think Sunny put it well, this will require a conscious effort to change. The thing is, I?m not so sure I want to change it. The whole calculating booze availability, that I?m sure will change over time, since it?s no longer a priority. Deciding to buy a drink on the way, well that?s because I want one when I get there. It remains to be seen if this approach will be sustainable. Can you imagine curing yourself, and re-addicting yourself? I?d crawl into a very deep hole.

Moderation was always my goal, it seems to be on offer, although it?s obviously way too early to tell.

Hope that helps, if not let me know and I?ll have another go.

[Guest]

Indifference.

Quite a few people have told me over the years that you have to change the way you do things to beat this. Obviously bac takes away your attraction or craving for alcohol, but do you then have to carry this through into your whole life - that's the question?If you do readdict via reinforcing old behaviours, do you then have to titrate up to an even higher point?

I'm probably at a different angle to this because when I drink I don't have a life, full stop yet when I don't drink I have a lot of things not compatible with drinking that I'm interested in. Or should I say I'm not interested in drinking when I'm doing them. I'm more interested in being alert, and fit and bright.

[Isolde]

Indifference.

neva eva;1049396 wrote: I'm still unclear about drinking thoughts vs. thinking about drinking. Though I know I'm being obtuse. I'll have a 'well, duh' moment probably. In the meantime, would you elucidate?

I love the word elucidate. It rolls off the tongue so nicely. I am a great lover of words, in general. That's an especially good one.

I think I got what bleep was saying, at least here is how it came across to me:

Drinking thoughts = obsessive thoughts. When I would think about having a drink before bac, there was no MAYBE. The thought became an obsession and continued on until I'd decided I'd had enough or got too tired. Once I had drink one in hand, I would obsess about drink two, and so on.

Thoughts about drinking = lacking an obsessive quality. Example - I think that maybe I will have a glass of wine with dinner. Whether I decide to do so or not doesn't matter, because the thought holds no sway over me. If I do have the glass of wine, there is no thought about a second, it's usually a chore to finish the first one anyway. If I decide not to, the thought leaves completely and doesn't keep nudging and poking me.

[bleep]

Indifference.

Logophiles unite!

Thanks Is - that's pretty much it, right there.

[Lo0p]

Indifference.

I have thoughts about drinking all the time!!! Well not much anymore, but I still get them.

I think it's hilarious! They go like this:

"Hmm...Would a glass of wine be good right now? Maybe."

Then I can't help it, I just start cracking up because it's too funny.

"Yeah fuggng right dude, you could pour yourself a glass of fine Russian River Valley Pinot right now and smell it (you might even like the smell), taste it (it will probably be DAMN good too) but you know you're gonna find it 5 hours later when it's time to go to bed where you last left it and try to pawn it off on your sister! She might drink it so at least you don't have to pour it down the drain."

More uncontrollable laughter.

"And then wtf are you gonna do with the rest of the bottle? You'll only ever drink fine wine anymore because you can't stand 95% of the crap that comes in a bottle anymore. How long will it last in your cupboard? You could give it to friends when they come over I guess."

And then then nail in the coffin.

"Can you seriously picture yourself putting your shoes on, driving to the store, walking down that aisle, looking at all of the bottles, picking one that you like (in spite of the enormous price tag) coming home and still not losing interest? Yeah right dude. You'll be standing in that aisle for 45 minutes, picking a bottle up, reading it, feeling luke-warm or cold about it and putting it back. Rinse and repeat."

I often enjoy it to no end when I get these thoughts, it usually brightens my day. :rofl2:

That my friends, is what it feels like.

[gratitude]

Indifference.

is,
I think you nailed it. obsessive thoughts. I've been sober for 3 1/2 years and I would have to say that I've thought about alcohol every single day of that period. I don't think
"normies" do this. if they want a drink they have it and then move on. I am unable to do this. the one drink would lead to the physical craving and extreme obsession. like a lot of alkies I drank for the relief it gave me from anxiety and a feeling of just not being comfortable in my skin. a couple drinks and I was a very likable ,funny,comfortable guy to be around. not so much after about 10 years.
so... does BAC remove the obsessive thoughts? does it remove the physical craving? both? good thread.

[Isolde]

Indifference.

gratitude;1049512 wrote: is,
so... does BAC remove the obsessive thoughts? does it remove the physical craving? both? good thread.

Yes and yes! Yup.

[gratitude]

Indifference.

inconceivable! haha!
if I could get rid of these F'n obsessive thoughts about drinking and be free....yeeehaw! of course, I would be taking BAC for that purpose but there is a sneaky suspicion that what I really want is to just drink like a normal man. a conundrum wrapped in a riddle.

[Isolde]

Indifference.

Lo0p, my thoughts on wine are like that too!! I belonged to two wine clubs for awhile, really good stuff from Napa. So now I have a bunch of really good wine, and I don't want to open any of them because I know I'll most likely only have a glass out of it (and maybe not even finish it!) and then the rest of the bottle will go to waste. A few weeks ago I opened a bottle of sav. blanc to have a glass and it's still sitting in the fridge, hasn't been touched since. :H
Luckily it was just something that one of my brothers got for free that they brought home for anyone in the house to try, so I don't feel bad about it going to waste.

I had some Russian River chardonnay recently when I was out to dinner for my bday, which I've had before and really liked. It didn't do anything for me this time though. The bad thing about getting wine out at a restaurant and not enjoying it is that you're paying a LOT more for it! All the more reason not to even order it in the first place.

Odd that I've even had whites recently, I used to drink reds almost exclusively, and I really don't care for them now. Again, all the more reason not to bother!

[bleep]

Indifference.

gratitude;1049532 wrote: inconceivable! haha!
if I could get rid of these F'n obsessive thoughts about drinking and be free....yeeehaw! of course, I would be taking BAC for that purpose but there is a sneaky suspicion that what I really want is to just drink like a normal man. a conundrum wrapped in a riddle.

gratitude, that's exactly what I'm trying to do, abstinence was never a goal. Saying that, no booze tonight simply because I can't be bothered. Soon we'll be discussing various coffee's here, then its over for this thread!