Indifference.

[Isolde]

Indifference.

At work, so just a quick response. Your post that I want to quote is back a few pages. But it's basically to do with you being baffled as to why you are getting insomnia all of a sudden when nothing significant has changed.
The same thing happened to me. I was doing one of my normal titrations back up, and when I got to 120mgs (from 80), the insomnia hit. Which previously hadn't happened at levels any lower than 160. Luckily, the good SEs came back full force as well, so the insomnia was almost worth it!
Then after 2 weeks, I started sleeping very well again, and even started experiencing daytime somnolence (which hadn't happened in MONTHS)!
Bumped up to 130, 140, still sleeping well. At 160mgs now and the insomnia (and best of the best SEs!) are bac.

Bac is such a fickle mistress!

You've gotten lots of good advice on how to get some sleep, I don't have anything additional to add to that (employing some of those same tactics now myself). Just wanted to let you know I've been dealing with the same "out of nowhere" insomnia. Hope you get some relief soon! I try not to take it too often (because my tolerance builds up VERY quickly), but I took .5mg of xanax last night and slept GREAT. It's amazing how much better I feel today than I did the last 2 days.

Btw, after recommending it to you, I decided to re-read A Dirty Job. It's probably been about 5 years since I read it initially, so it should be all fresh and new again by now!

[tiptronic_ct]

Indifference.

bleep;1112645 wrote:

Tonight (it's 1 in the morning now) I took four amitryptiline. The recommended dose is 1 for a good nights sleep. It's 3 hours later and sleep is nowhere to be found. If the last couple of nights are anything to go by, at about 3 I'll fall asleep until 6ish. I am fairly tolerant of pills, but hesitate to take 8 sleeping tablets. The prescription was for 25 tablets, so I'm sure it's designed to last more than 3 nights!

Fuck! All pills are not like bac, where you can play around with doses in realtive safety. I think it was Murphy who pointed out that it is actually an AD.

I was prescribed amitryptiline alongside Wellbutrin. Not so much as an anti-depressant, but off-label to aid sleep and counteract the insomnia of bac combined with the Wellbutrin (a common SE with the latter). It is also used as a mild muscle relaxant and for headaches. It kinda worked for me... but not miraculously so.

I know of at least 4 other people who take it every now and again. Sounds as if it works well enough for them, but they STICK TO THE PRESCRIBED DOSE.

The only lasting solution for me came when I tapered down. Sleep returned from around 160mg (if memory serves - it feels like a long time ago).

[redhead77]

Indifference.

Bleep,

When did the insomnia start? Could quitting smoking be contributing to it? I know most people don't think of nicotine as a powerful drug, but you were a heavy smoker. There can be a period of weeks where sleep patterns are disrupted.

[bleep]

Indifference.

Thanks for all the tips people. I realise it was daft to take amitriptyline like that, and won't be doing it again. Was just hoping to be knocked out.

I have a feeling not smoking may be contributing more than I'd like to think it is. As Red points out, I was a heavy smoker. Certainly I don't want to overreact - if this lasts more than a few days, then I will get all drastic, and go the heavy pill route, but for now, I'm just going to calmly let it happen for a bit. If it is due to smokes, it should pass, in the meantime I can play around with my evening doses and see if some small relief can be found that way.

I just had close to an hour long nap, which has allowed me to view this whole thing with a little perspective. 6 months ago, I hadn't even heard of baclofen. Now, drinking is not an issue and smokes will hopefully soon be a thing of the past. If complaining about my lack of sleep is the best I can come up with, then I can only be delighted at where I suddenly find myself. I am in serious danger of becoming a relatively healthy person for the first time in my life, and it is a weird and wonderful place to be!

[Isolde]

Indifference.

Murphyx;1112778 wrote: I suppose the obvious things to try would be a larger bac dose at night or last dose earlier in the evening. Oddly both approaches have worked for different people.

Both approaches have worked for me at different times. Initially, more bac at night was helping me sleep really well.
With the last bout of insomnia at 120mgs, I tried taking my last dose a few hours before bed and that helped a lot.
Not really sure where I'm at now - going to try a higher dose before bed tonight and see!

[bleep]

Indifference.

This is indeed strange and baffling Is!

Just after 8 o'clock, I made a nice cup of tea, took magnesium and melatonin, curled up in bed and read for a while. At about 9, I started yawning, and fell asleep! Some time later I woke up. I sent little runners out to various parts of my of my body and they all reported being awake and ready for action, so I guessed it had been the standard 2 hour nap. I was therefore quite miffed to discover that only 40 minutes had passed! It's now a few hours later, and I'm hoping to feel tired again before work in 6 hours.

Tomorrow night I will try not taking baclofen for a few hours before bedtime, and see where that leads.

I also want to get my hands on some zolpidem, as per beatle's recommendation. Hopefully they have heard of it in this part of the world!

[bleep]

Indifference.

Digging around a bit more, I think Red hit the nail squarely on the head. It's a common and well-known SE of quitting fags. Well, apparently well known - I had never heard of it until Red told me. There's this, if anyone is interested:

Quitting Smoking and Insomnia

Lasts anywhere from 1 to 3 weeks apparently. I think this, in combination with funny sleep from baclofen, is really what's going on. The site is full of those absolutely useless insomnia "cures" - take a hot bath, don't have a coffee nightcap, etc. No help at all, other than to identify the cause.

Knowing it's most likely a temporary glitch in the matrix makes it much easier for me to throw some artillery at it, so I'll speak to the doctor tomorrow for some zolpidem. I was reluctant to take medication without knowing the cause - what if it lasted forever? I don't want to have to take sleeping tablets every night of my life.

[bleep]

Indifference.

Well, a few developments here in Bleepland. I managed to get Zopiclone, which sounds similar. Beatle - help?? I remember reading about the difference recently, but can't remember where. Last night was a disaster. I don't know how much I slept, but it wasn't much. Bah, who cares, it's sleep. Today I'm tired. Life goes on. I have a very kick-ass sounding pill to throw at the issue tonight, so we'll see. As Isolde's signature says (and what I had been considering putting as mine for ages!) - better living through chemicals.

Of more importance, I discovered some very interesting things about baclofen and Zimbabwe, which explains why the supply is so grim. Baclofen is a controlled medication here, which means it is supposed to be licensed, and in the past it was. We had some really bad economic times here recently, and the license was allowed to lapse. It costs a few grand for the pharmacies to renew the license, and obviously they can't be bothered, given the low demand for it here.

3 things came out of this. One is the demand is starting to go through the roof here, the pharmacist was saying. He said there are now a few people on doses comparable to mine! The word has started to spread, at last! Speaking to my doctor later in the morning, he said he is trying with a couple more people, and they are reporting success. We didn't go into detail, but he wants me to give him a suggested titration schedule. Progress is coming to Zimbabwe, hallelujah! I'm giving him the report this afternoon.

The second thing is that the supply side is only going to get worse. Short-term, this is a nightmare for me, and for the other users. Zim is not a dynamic place, it will take a long time for the pharmacies to realise there is an increase in demand, and cater accordingly. On with my other schemes then.

Lastly, baclofen appears to be entering the country illegally and ending up on the shelves quite happily regardless. The pharmacies don't know how the guy is smuggling/getting it into the country. It's pretty obvious he is backhanding someone, but it just goes to show what a crazy place this is.

Sorry for the length of the post, it was an interesting morning!

[missyabby1]

Indifference.

Hey Bleep,

Despite the probs with getting the Baclofen into the country, it is great to hear that the word is spreading! Hopefully your supplies will become more easily obtained in the future.

Sounds like a very interesting morning for you!

Missy

[ignominious]

Indifference.

bleep;1113255 wrote: It's a common and well-known SE of quitting fags.

Have a few sleepovers with your girlfriends until you get used to it!:H

Great news about Zim. Is your Dr. the one who treating all the bac takers or are there other prescribing Docs in the country? Every silver lining has a cloud, or something like that, so I hope you can sort out your own stash promptly. Maybe you could get a license and be the main bac wholesaler in Zimbabwe!

[beatle]

Indifference.

bleep;1113500 wrote: Well, a few developments here in Bleepland. I managed to get Zopiclone, which sounds similar. Beatle - help?? I remember reading about the difference recently, but can't remember where. Last night was a disaster. I don't know how much I slept, but it wasn't much. Bah, who cares, it's sleep. Today I'm tired. Life goes on. I have a very kick-ass sounding pill to throw at the issue tonight, so we'll see. As Isolde's signature says (and what I had been considering putting as mine for ages!) - better living through chemicals.

Of more importance, I discovered some very interesting things about baclofen and Zimbabwe, which explains why the supply is so grim. Baclofen is a controlled medication here, which means it is supposed to be licensed, and in the past it was. We had some really bad economic times here recently, and the license was allowed to lapse. It costs a few grand for the pharmacies to renew the license, and obviously they can't be bothered, given the low demand for it here.

3 things came out of this. One is the demand is starting to go through the roof here, the pharmacist was saying. He said there are now a few people on doses comparable to mine! The word has started to spread, at last! Speaking to my doctor later in the morning, he said he is trying with a couple more people, and they are reporting success. We didn't go into detail, but he wants me to give him a suggested titration schedule. Progress is coming to Zimbabwe, hallelujah! I'm giving him the report this afternoon.

The second thing is that the supply side is only going to get worse. Short-term, this is a nightmare for me, and for the other users. Zim is not a dynamic place, it will take a long time for the pharmacies to realise there is an increase in demand, and cater accordingly. On with my other schemes then.

Lastly, baclofen appears to be entering the country illegally and ending up on the shelves quite happily regardless. The pharmacies don't know how the guy is smuggling/getting it into the country. It's pretty obvious he is backhanding someone, but it just goes to show what a crazy place this is.

Sorry for the length of the post, it was an interesting morning!

Oh Bleep, I made it perfectly clear to you last night to make sure you get zolpidem and not zolpicone. Look back at our chat (that's where you read it).

But, you were severely sleep deprived, and who knows what else, and done is done.

The main difference is that Zolpicone (known as Imovane in Europe) will knock the lights out of you, probably for 8 hours. It's one of those kick-ass sleeping pills you were wary about and I wanted to avoid for that reason. But ok, it's not a benzo. Not as addictive. No highs (just sleep). Def not as scary. (Doctors are not warned off of prescribing it to people with addictions or previous addictions, as they are with benzos -- that says something.).

However, unlike Zolpidem, you have to plan ahead. (Zolpidem works very quickly -- fast in, fast out -- so easier to take on a prn basis.)

But ok, plan ahead then. Take it an hour before you go to sleep and at least 8 hours before you want to be functional. And the most important thing is that you will get some sleep.

I'm looking forward to your post tomorrow.

I will never ever say jkttgdp w/zolpicone... but I will say jttgdp. Tonight. And tomorrow, maybe. Then a break for a day or 2. See how it goes.

[bleep]

Indifference.

Dammit, I knew something wasn't right. Still, the thought of 8 hours uninterrupted kip is something else. I haven't had that since January! I want a couple of nights of coma, then I want to return to my now usual pattern of 5 or 6 hours sleep in a night.

Thanks for your help beatle, much appreciated! I'll let you know what it's like, hopefully not at 2 o'clock this morning!

I think the majority are my doctor's patients. But this is a small place, so he would have been chatting. I've spoken to a couple of doctors myself. It seems baclofen is slowly gathering momentum here. Visions of progressive baclofen rehab centres popped through my mind, before I remembered, hey, this is Zim, the whole country can't get organised enough to keep just you in baclofen!

[bleep]

Indifference.

Well, I gotta say I was quite hopeful, after beatle told me that I had bought big brother instead of the calm and gentle sleeping tablet she had recommended.

I didn't expect to be here, 2 hours later, asking for more advice...

They are 7.5mg tablets. I took 1 at 8 o'clock. Can I take another one now?

[RudyB]

Indifference.

bleep! i had no idea you were in zimbabwe!
i just made friends with a guy who does fair trade importing from there (earth to spirit is his company, do you know it?). he bought my tractor. chris. heck of a guy. don't tell the zim gov't, but he just sent my son many paper dollars from said country. if the currency goes outa whack, please don't let them knock on our door for recompense.

[bleep]

Indifference.

Hi Rudy! Don't know him personally, but will ask around tomorrow and see... We all have boxes and boxes of money around that is now useless, you are welcome to it!

The sleeping pills were somewhat of a disappointment! I doubled the dose, as well. It is things like this that encouraged me to go straight to 4 with the amitryp. I definitely nodding a bit more than normal, but I expected/hoped to be stretchered into work tomorrow!