Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

[Murphyx]

Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

What is with all you Americans and the way you live?How can peeing on someone else's lawn even be an option? Don't you have barriers between your properties? Do you all live in a commune? You bunch of hippies!

OK, I have a 6 foot high brick wall all around my garden. For my dogs to pee on my neighbour's land, I would have to hold the dog over the wall while he does it. I think my actions might alert the neighbour.

Rudy: Middle age starts at 35. Tough shit, deal with it you old bag! :H

Hang on, you and your friend compared boobs? Was there any touching? Did you enjoy the experience? You didn't happen to video the event did you?

[RudyB]

Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

no video, no touching. though i do smack her butt from time to time. it and she are so darn cute! she's got this tight little yogi-rock-climber bod, and a beautiful chisled face with huge brown eyes. and boobs bigger than mine with barely-visible stretch marks. and she gets cooky like i do, wiggling around in antics with sound. oh how i wish my door would swing both ways... i'd have twice the fun!

[Murphyx]

Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

Thank God my bac-horny side effect has finally gone, or that last post may very well have sent me over the edge.

Rudy are you absolutely sure your door doesn't swing both ways? Perhaps an experiment is in order. Videoed, obviously.

[RudyB]

Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

murph, i have been thinking about that. i conclude that it would have to be just the right woman. and i'd have to be drunk and a little stoned. (i've only ever fooled around with women -twice- when i was a litttle of both.) since the former of those never ever happens any more, it's not gonna happen. ...unless it were just the right woman.

[RudyB]

Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

murph, i've edited that tittilating post to include something about boobs. maybe that'll do it. let us know how it goes on the other side of the edge.

[Murphyx]

Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

Rudy, you are a dreadful tease.

I hope your mum doesn't read this thread.

[RudyB]

Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

i'm betting she'd giggle with her hand over her mouth if she does!

[Doggygirl]

Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

Murphy, your thread needs to be rated in X's rather than *'s.

DG

[Murphyx]

Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

Today is my 6 month 'indifference' anniversary.

Half a year of not being enslaved by booze. Not waking up feeling like crap and being absolutely adamant that it won't happen again tonight, but by midday thinking it probably would and by 5pm being resigned to drinking to excess, stumbling around, slurring my speech and humiliating myself, yet again, in front of those I love.

Half a year of ups and downs, undeniably. There have been blips; I've drunk too much on one or two occasions but if you add up all the booze I've had in the last 6 months it would equate to less than a week's worth of my old drinking. At times I've been floored by the side effects but they're always temporary so I get over them. And the SEs were almost always of my own making; I titrated unevenly, randomly, both up and down. I should have planned better and recorded my dosage changes. I wonder whether that was deliberate; perhaps I was testing myself.

At times I've doubted whether it's wise to consume high doses of this powerful drug without medical supervision and worried about the long term health effects of doing so. But then I remember where I was before, what I was doing and where I was going. I doubt I would have lasted too much longer, behaving the way I used to. The booze would have killed me eventually: liver or heart failure probably. But my reckless behaviour would have got me sooner. I used to put myself in dangerous situations on a regular basis, partly because drunkenness wrests away self-control but also through choice: I was testing my mortality and would have been content with either result.

But that was then and this is now. Sober, I'm fitter, healthier and more engaged with those around me than I have been in many years. I'm not finished, there's still a lot to work out, but the future looks...well it doesn't matter how it looks, the point is I now see a future and look forward to greeting it. This is all thanks to baclofen and the support and friendship I've received from the people here. People, you rock :l and

BACLOFEN WORKS, BABY!

Ne, happy ? anniversary.

[RudyB]

Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

good for you, murph! much of what you write resonates with me. especially the part about reckless behavior. taking a walk comes to mind! like that time i walked as my son rode his bike. i fell onto him and he got hurt. in the morning, his question about why i kept falling down broke my heart. i knew something had to change. thank god i found you guys and then baclofen!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

Bac at you my dear friend! :l
Looking forward to the BIG one. (7 months. :H)

[Doggygirl]

Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

Congratulations Murph! Your post is such a good reminder that no matter what ups and downs we might be having now, there is no comparison to the hell of "how it was."

DG

[Cassander]

Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

Murphyx;1157844 wrote: Today is my 6 month 'indifference' anniversary.

Half a year of not being enslaved by booze. Not waking up feeling like crap and being absolutely adamant that it won't happen again tonight, but by midday thinking it probably would and by 5pm being resigned to drinking to excess, stumbling around, slurring my speech and humiliating myself, yet again, in front of those I love.

Half a year of ups and downs, undeniably. There have been blips; I've drunk too much on one or two occasions but if you add up all the booze I've had in the last 6 months it would equate to less than a week's worth of my old drinking. At times I've been floored by the side effects but they're always temporary so I get over them. And the SEs were almost always of my own making; I titrated unevenly, randomly, both up and down. I should have planned better and recorded my dosage changes. I wonder whether that was deliberate; perhaps I was testing myself.

At times I've doubted whether it's wise to consume high doses of this powerful drug without medical supervision and worried about the long term health effects of doing so. But then I remember where I was before, what I was doing and where I was going. I doubt I would have lasted too much longer, behaving the way I used to. The booze would have killed me eventually: liver or heart failure probably. But my reckless behaviour would have got me sooner. I used to put myself in dangerous situations on a regular basis, partly because drunkenness wrests away self-control but also through choice: I was testing my mortality and would have been content with either result.

But that was then and this is now. Sober, I'm fitter, healthier and more engaged with those around me than I have been in many years. I'm not finished, there's still a lot to work out, but the future looks...well it doesn't matter how it looks, the point is I now see a future and look forward to greeting it. This is all thanks to baclofen and the support and friendship I've received from the people here. People, you rock :l and

BACLOFEN WORKS, BABY!

Ne, happy ? anniversary.

To all

I am so inspired by what you, Murph, and all of you guys are doing. Yes, it takes quite a bit of courage to say no to the monster and take more than a few little pills that most MDs won't prescribe. When OA gets his Nobel Prize I hope he thinks to share it with the pioneers on this board who are ploughing forward without the support of the medical establishment and the healthcare community.

I, too, am concerned that there may be long term implications to taking HDB over a long period of time. We simply don't know, do we? I am encouraged by the fact that baclofen has been prescribed for over 50 years for spasticity with no apparent evidence of harm from longterm use. I am also encouraged that OA has been on HDB for what? eight years? now without reporting a problem. But long term use of any medication can have consequences and it is beyond irresponsible that the medical establishment is not out in front studying this.

The more time I spend on this board the more I do also worry about the SEs, but I am also encouraged that they are most often temporary. It also seems hard to tell in some cases whether an "SE" is really an SE or the result of irregular administration or an "interaction" with another medication or simply a complication of chronic alcoholism. Again, the unwillingness of the medical establishment to supervise the process is extraordinary. Perhaps even negligent in the legal sense.

It also seems pretty evident to me that while baclofen relieves craving it doesn't solve all our issues. So be it. It seems to me that if the craving is addressed and the monster tamed at least we then have a fighting chance for a life. For a life where the "other issues" can be addressed.

I read everything posted here and I know that lifelong issues of depression, social anxiety, chronic shyness and loneliness, difficulty "relating", all these issues (that may have been masked to some extent by the booze) don't necessarily disappear with the craving. But it seems clear to me that without the monster at the door, these other issues can finally be peeled back and addressed. Hopefully, over time, with the help of therapy, loved ones, specific additional medications such as antidepressents, and yes, EXERCISE, the "other issues" can be addressed, too.

I capitalized exercise because I believe it is and should be understood to be a wonder drug, right up there with baclofen. Exercise relieves anxiety and it relieves craving! It does. As we all say, we aren't doctors (where are they!), so take this with a grain of salt: I think that if baclofen and exercise were combined in some kind of integrated therapy, addicted persons could use HDB to get to their switch and then use a combination of exercise and reduced baclofen, perhaps even greatly reduced baclofen, to maintain.

If you are one who has reached indifference and is wondering what's next, and how to fill the hole in your life where the monster lived, FWIW, I strongly recommend regular exercise. (Personal testimonial: I started exercising in 2004. I got serious in 2007. I quit drinking in 2008 and am largely indifferent today. But I still cope with the anxiety that led me to medicate with alcohol and I am addressing that, as well as I can, with exercise.)

The case for exercise and mental health is made brilliantly by Dr John Ratey in his book, Spark, which is available on Amazon and most internet booksellers.

But, bac to baclofen. What is the medical establishement up to? There must be doctors who are becoming aware atleast anecdotally of the miraculous success of HDB in eliminating craving. Why are they not publicly pushing for more scientific study? How can you square the Hippocratic Oath with (I hate to use the word) indifference to the potential of baclofen? How can you do it? If there is a doctor out there specializing in alcoholism or addiction treatment who can square his obligations under the Hippocratic Oath with a total unwillingness to understand and master the implications of medical treatment with baclofen I would love to hear the argument.

And what are the national health services up to? The various national health services in the (at least until recently) wealthy Western democracies spend tens, probably hundreds, of millions of dollars on alcoholism and addiction programs. That don't eliminate craving! That don't work! Where are they? If I am a senior scientist drawing a pay check at the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism how can I go to work with a straight face without demanding that baclofen be subjected to clinical testing and proved out one way or the other? I simply don't get it.

And what of the pharmaceutical industry? We are all aware of the premise that the pharmaceutical industry is not going to fund additional research on baclofen because it is off-patent. But you have to believe that the pharma companies are aware of Dr A's discovery. There must be research costing millions of dollars going on in secret to find a compound which acts on the GABA receptors like baclofen but which has a different structure and is thus patentable. So they can spend millions to find a patentable compound but not something in the neighborhood of $750,000 (the amount that the University of Amsterdam study is apparently costing) to test baclofen? Don't the pharma companies feel any obligation to serve the common good? Some of them give away drugs to the poor...well there are plenty of poor dying of alcoholism and drug abuse...

And what of the legislatures and the law enforcement community? Treating alcoholism as a crime seems to me to be indefensible if it is a disease. The evidence that it is a disease is now overwhelming (at least it seems to me) and yet the addict risks convictions and jail sentences and lifelong stigma for a disease! And what if its a treatable disease?

And how can society rationalize paying the enormous costs of untreated alcoholism, measured in unproductive and broken lives, lost jobs, hospitalizations, consequential disease (liver, heart, kidney, pancreas, etc, etc), broken families, divorce, and early death, when there may be an effective treatment. I don't get it.

And where is the media on this? True story: I called up a classmate who is a producer for the highly successful and respected 60 Minutes news program here in the US. I said, "Bob. You need to cover the baclofen story. It is a miracle." A week or so later he came back and said, "We can't. Its too anecdotal. We've been burned on anecdotal stories before. Plus ABC already covered it." Well, yeah, ABC wrote a story three years ago. Today there is plenty more evidence baclofen works where no other treatment, not rehab, not AA have worked.

And then there is the rehab community and AA. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that there is no support there. Too much of a vested interest in the old way, I guess. But imagine if a 28 day stay in rehab could be used to teach a patient how to titrate baclofen properly and avoid SEs, etc, etc.

Lastly, I just want to say, again, what a remarkable community you are. Impossible before the Internet age, you have come together from around the (English-speaking) world with a common problem, a common disease, and your intelligence, your good sense and good humor, in finding your way through this challenge, are remarkable to me. Just in terms of the quality of dialog in Internet chat rooms, this community is remarkable. I will hazard a guess that the kind of support you are providing each other will turn out to be another major underpinning of successful integrated treatment of alcohol addiction going forward.

Enough for now. God speed!

Cassander

[Cassander]

Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

PS I hope this won't offend anybody, and I don't think it will, but I think that someday in the not too distant future AA will be viewed as the equivalent of witchcraft in terms of treatment efficacy.

[bleep]

Murph’s Baclofen (or should that be BacloFUN) diary

Ah, the sweet smell of freedom Murph. It lets in a lot of the smells of real life, which aren't always roses, but it's better than last nights whisky fumes anyday.

Congratulations!

Cassander, you raise a lot of very valid points. It's starting though. Slowly, very slowly, but it's starting...