Misinformation about baclofen

[Guest]

Misinformation about baclofen

I thought by asking questions I might get some answers and yes I do use google an awful lot. In fact I've been using it today, shock horror including searching for "baclofen dependency".

[AllyB]

Misinformation about baclofen

beatle;1051431 wrote: If one compares the resistance of many experts in the addiction field in academia, one should think of what happened in 1982, when Drs Barry Marshall and Robin Warren (Nobel prize in Medicine 2005) proved that a bacteria - helicobacter pylori ? was at the origin of gastro-intestinal ulcers. When I was a medical students, the dogma had it that like for alcoholism and addiction today, ulcers were a ?complex, multifactorial problem?. At its origins, psychosomatic/psychiatric disorders, eating habits, stress, heredity etc? The treatment required regular visits to a gastro-enterologist, weekly sessions of psychotherapy and expensive inefficient medications.
The discovery, to paraphrase Dr. Barry Marshall, was harshly fought by three lobbies: the gastro-enterologists who were making a living of performing endoscopies, psychiatrists and psychologists who were making a fortune from this life-long disease and the pharmaceutical industry.

I remember that, there was a UK documentary on it, in the 90s. IIRC, the only newspaper that would report the news initially was The Weekly World News, which is worse than never being reported on at all. You can see the WWN article here. Weekly World News - Google Books

[beatle]

Misinformation about baclofen

UKB, a lot of the answers to your questions can be found in these threads here. Reading through them would save you time and give you a broad spectrum of what different people know and think, and what resources there are regarding baclofen.

The discussion about addiction, the definition, how baclofen is not addictive... it's been going on for ages on these threads. You don't even have to do all the work of googling, sifting through reams of information, trying to make sense of scientific studies... it's all here on this forum.

I was going to say enough hijacking, but I realized this back-and-forth with UKB is exactly what this thread is about.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Misinformation about baclofen

I thought that she was looking for a distraction, and a little disruption. This, however is the result:

anon;1051450 wrote: Now I am now really scared about taking Baclofen I am on 50mgs a day and it is working well.

Apart from feeling tired at night it has reduced my cravings to amost zero and the rest I have to use the tool box to stay AF.

I am worried that I may become as dependent on Baclofen as I was on Alcohol.

I do know that my life has changed for the better since taking Bac but---
You are needlessly scaring someone whose life is being saved with blatant lies and misinformation. You continue to digress when confronted with the truth. ukblonde you are no longer a nuisance, now you are borderline destructive. Keep it up and I will flag every post you make regarding baclofen to the administrators from now until the end of my time on MWO. I promise.
I would politely suggest AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN that all of the information you seek is found RIGHT HERE (not on google) by minds MUCH MUCH less delusional than yours.

I will make it my mission to point out all of your discrepancies, starting with your blatant, outrageous lies and claims. Of which there are many. This will make me a bad person in the eyes of many, who will take it out of context. That would make me sad. But you are derailing, possibly endangering people by spewing misinformation here.

AllyB;1051426 wrote: Why do all of those people on that thread keep making derogatory references to baclofen as a "miracle?" They are like cavemen exclaiming at a telephone. Is the concept of science so hard to understand? Sure recovery on baclofen seems miraculous but no more so than treating infection with penicillin did 80 years ago.

It feels like a miracle. Especially since the professionals don't believe in it. I'll rethink my use of the word. That would actually be an interesting discussion to have on this thread, wouldn't it? The proper way to think about and approach this life-saving treatment so as not to spread misinformation (ie. sound like one is part of a cult or religion or investing in a charlatan's snake oil.)

beatle, I trust you to tell me if I've gone overboard and I'll rescind. But only you. or lo0p. or tip.

Karen

[Isolde]

Misinformation about baclofen

Ukblonde;1051455 wrote: According to information on here you will only be physically dependent - so no cravings, you will just have to titrate down carefull if you wish to stop, but that's all.

Your life is so much better now so that must be worth it.

Yup, my life IS so much better now and it IS worth it!

I look at the dependency the same way as anti-depressants. They're not addictive, but you can't just stop taking them, you have to titrate off.

[Guest]

Misinformation about baclofen

I have posted today that I fully support baclofen being promoted for the use of alcoholics. I've not told any lies and when I typed that baclofen was addictive I was merely mixed up between addicted and physically dependent(my own stupidity and clumsiness perhaps a side effect of the Baclofen I have been taking?). There is plenty of information out there for everyone who is concerned to read - which should dispell any fears or worries, as well as hundreds of posts. I ask questions to be put right and I've fully accepted the answers. I've also apologised for being so thick, stupid and ignorant. I only want to know the answers. If that is wrong so be it. If I'm to be flagged because I don't understand something then so be it.

I understand the dependency or lack of regards baclofen, and have been on antidepressants myself once. Stopping them suddenly doesn't give physical symptoms though, more the risk you might have suicidal thoughts etc. Whereas with Bac you can experience physical complications, but you aren't actually mentally dependent nor 'addicted'.

[Guest]

Misinformation about baclofen

Isolde;1051500 wrote: Yup, my life IS so much better now and it IS worth it!

I look at the dependency the same way as anti-depressants. They're not addictive, but you can't just stop taking them, you have to titrate off.

Fantastic Is!

[I-want-to-be-sober]

Misinformation about baclofen

Suddenly stopping baclofen after long-term - especially high dose - use can result not just in an unpleasant "discontinuation syndrome", but in fact dangerous withdrawal symptoms that are quite similar to that of other GABAergic substances like alcohol, benzodiazepines, GHB...

The main difference is that those other substances have abuse potential, can lead to psychological dependence and - in case of alcohol - are pretty toxic.

So the point is not to be afraid of baclofen (alcohol is much much worse). Just ensure you always have enough bac available and when you taper down, do so slowly. That's all.

[37degrees]

Misinformation about baclofen

I talked to a couple of neurologists - just community docs treating MS and spastic patients, not research or academic types - last week, and "very high-dose" of BAC to them means 120 - 150 mg. In fact, before getting to that level, they would refer a patient for an intrathecal pump.

Yes, BAC is pretty safe even at Ameisen-level doses, but they aren't used much in current neurological practice.

[fennel]

Misinformation about baclofen

I can't post links on my phone, but I found this good news a few days ago ...an anonymous donor has donated 750,000 to start a baclofen study. Go to Olivier Ameisen, MD

[Murphyx]

Misinformation about baclofen

37degrees;1051533 wrote: I talked to a couple of neurologists - just community docs treating MS and spastic patients, not research or academic types - last week, and "very high-dose" of BAC to them means 120 - 150 mg. In fact, before getting to that level, they would refer a patient for an intrathecal pump.

Yes, BAC is pretty safe even at Ameisen-level doses, but they aren't used much in current neurological practice.

And on a side point, did they happen to mention whether they make their patients titrate up slowly or quickly, or indeed at all?

[Guest]

Misinformation about baclofen

I've seen that too and the trial is supposed to be starting now(or infact has already!).

[fennel]

Misinformation about baclofen

Huh. I guess I CAN post links.

[Murphyx]

Misinformation about baclofen

Ukblonde;1051503 wrote: I

I understand the dependency or lack of regards baclofen, and have been on antidepressants myself once. Stopping them suddenly doesn't give physical symptoms though,

Oh yes it does! Unless you taper off Prozac very slowly you can end up with severe dizzyness and the freakyest brain zaps. I don't know whether it's dangerous, but it makes doing anything quite impossible. Trust me, I've been there.

[Isolde]

Misinformation about baclofen

I was surprised to see that the article was from Bluelight. I used to be a very active participant on those forums. That was back when I was taking E a few times a year, but they have other forums there that are non drug related that I liked as well. For the most part, they are a very open minded group of individuals, some of which are insanely smart.
If you want to know the in-depth science of exactly what certain drugs do to your brain and body, and what to supplement with to best off-set it, there are people there who can break it down for you in mind-numbing detail.

Bleep is right as well - there are also tons of people on there desperate for a high, most of them being young and stupid. But you find the other side there also - the responsible well-informed recerational drug user who is all about harm reduction.

Not sure where that person got the idea that bac is addictive! But most likely no one who responded to that thread had any interest in quitting the sauce (or just didn't have any issues w/it in the first place), and so were not really interested in researching it further. The GQ article (which I finally read last night), didn't really paint bac in the most positive light, as Martin never got sober with it. It wasn't the best representation, and it seems that the forum members there were solely responding to the information article, without any other knowledge about bac, and w/out researching it further for themselves. Which is a shame! But who knows, maybe by them starting the discussion there, someone who does need help with AL will start researching it, especially after Beatle's wonderful direction here to MWO!

Well done, Beatle!! :goodjob: