Bruun's Titting UP

[LadyLush]

Bruun's Titting UP

Hi all!

I went and saw the movie Jack and Jill last night. Lifelover aka Brenda (tell us the name you prefer)...YOU ARE Jill! gosh, that is you!
Tell me B, should it be 'and' or "and" around the movie title?
Anyway, the movie was not as funny as I thought it would be.
I hate thinking about puntuation and grammar; not good for MWO! So many languages and so many countries!
It hurts others if we point out such trivial crap when we all are after the same goal.
To the point, I got a PM because I teasingly corrected her and it hurt. I am as guilty as anyone.
So sorry. I am worse than most and no better than anybody.

Love everyone,
LL:l

[ifulovelife2]

Bruun's Titting UP

Isolde;1207377 wrote:
I hope you made sure to get the unrefined organic kind.. ?I got the only kind in the health food store: "Perfectly Pure Coconut Oil" it says. I've just noticed it says: "refrigerate once opened"...oopsie!

Doggygirl;1207543 wrote: I eat it from the jar! I eat it from the jar!That sounds like it deserves a crude joke in reply but I can't think of one. OMG I'm losing my only power!!!!:upset:
LadyLush;1207555 wrote: So sorry. I am worse than most and no better than anybody.

Bullshit. You're one of the nicest people I know
LadyLush;1207555 wrote: Love everyone,
LL:l

And we love you Lushy.:l

[spacebebe01]

Bruun's Titting UP

Ive still got no coconut oil so I feel left out, I will have to get some soon

[Doggygirl]

Bruun's Titting UP

ifulovelife2;1207713 wrote: That sounds like it deserves a crude joke in reply but I can't think of one. OMG I'm losing my only power!!!!:upset:

Hell is freezing over! Hell is freezing over!


spacebebe01;1207763 wrote: Ive still got no coconut oil so I feel left out, I will have to get some soon

Definitely get some! Good for the body and the soul methinks!

LL - we love you!!! We are all just fellow travelers on the same road.

Where is Bruun? How is Bruun? How was dinner with Dad and bro?

DG

PS - I fixed the link a few posts back. I typed in ".org" instead of ".gov" the first time around.

[RudyB]

Bruun's Titting UP

lifer, coconut oil is perfect for curries. just cook it as little as possible, maybe use olive for the sautee part, add coconut in the end for extra flavor and richness. you could also throw some into a shake.

lushie, sheesh, i feel i must apologize for all the syntax crap i've inspired around here, especially if i've ever offended you. you must know that it's all just fur fun in my case; i actually enjoy figuring it all out. but i know not everyone does so i try to leave others alone unless they really deserve to be bothered. (and i have no idea about 'and' or "and" btw.) and lovely, you mustn't put yourself down! it's totally unjustified! we all love you, too.

how's it goin' bruun? (that reminds me, i have to call my father...)

xo rude

[sjm]

Bruun's Titting UP

my favorite ways to use coconut oil:

spread it on my (gluten-free) bread when it's just out of the toaster, then add salt and/or cinnamon;

use it 50-50 with butter or olive oil when sauteing onions, garlic, other veggies for scrambled eggs or the start of a soup;

soften it, with a little butter over low heat, then add tasty treats (sunflower or almond butter--heat to soften, then add coconut flakes, ground flax, sesame seeds, chopped nuts), some salt, cinnamon and stevia, then pat it in a pan and refrigerate it, cut it when cold. i experiment with proportions of oil to other ingredients, and every time it's different. i keep it refrigerated or it will fall apart! oil, salt and sweet--a very satisfying treat.

[ifulovelife2]

Bruun's Titting UP

RudyB;1207820 wrote: lifer, coconut oil is perfect for curries. just cook it as little as possible, maybe use olive for the sautee part, add coconut in the end for extra flavor and richness. you could also throw some into a shake.

Haaaa, weird you should mention that, I used it in a curry for lunch and it turned out pretty well. I've swapped around my lunch and evening meals because I tend to have carbs (rice, pasta) in the evening meal, which I shouldn't be (if that makes any sense). In a shake? Yeah, it'll probably work in one of my fruit smoothies. Thanks.

Good tips SJM, thanks. Lots of things to try there.

Spacebebe, Holland and Barrett sell it, if you have one near you.

[Isolde]

Bruun's Titting UP

sjm;1207830 wrote:
soften it, with a little butter over low heat, then add tasty treats (sunflower or almond butter--heat to soften, then add coconut flakes, ground flax, sesame seeds, chopped nuts), some salt, cinnamon and stevia, then pat it in a pan and refrigerate it, cut it when cold. i experiment with proportions of oil to other ingredients, and every time it's different. i keep it refrigerated or it will fall apart! oil, salt and sweet--a very satisfying treat.

SJM, that sounds wonderful!!

[Bruunhilde]

Bruun's Titting UP

Hello campers!

DG, that free TIP stuff is great but the fact that anyone can order as much for free including shipping is a great example of where we could cut back a tad in govt spending. I'd rather cut that than social security, for sure. So glad about the pup!

Visit with Dad was great - if very sad, too much nostalgic talk - and I asked for more of his childhood memories, always fascinating. Real milkmen, real food, real jobs (not typing away all day every day), real neighborhoods and communities and families. I know there are such great conveniences and gadgets we all wouldn't want to give up, but to have lived a generation earlier than mine, I could have experienced it all and be almost done by now, without the worries of no pension that my generation has and his didn't have.

We talked about how four of us "kids" of his are in our 40's-50's and alone and lonely. He said "gee B, I'm really sorry you guys never found anyone to be miserable with" chuckle chuckle - he said that he thinks, in looking at us, that people have to hook up in their twenties when they're still forming so they can meld together a bit, or at least get used to each other and latch on for the long haul. And Dad looks and acts ancient, it scares me. I felt like he was doing his "goodbye" tour. I'll see him in two weeks at Thanksgiving, which will help my melancholy. This time of year is always difficult.

Saw my brother and he asked if I had a face lift! LOL I was thinking "no, I just look better now because I'm sitting at dinner being served instead of prepping/cooking/cleaning up your dinner" aka being the kitchen slave we women turn into around the holidays.

[Isolde]

Bruun's Titting UP

ifulovelife2;1207841 wrote: In a shake? Yeah, it'll probably work in one of my fruit smoothies. Thanks.

Brenda, there is a trick to adding it to smoothies. Because it hardens up when cold (feel free to insert snarky comment here! :H), it can tend to chunk up in smoothies. But if you liquefy it first (I just nuke it for a few seconds), then add it to the blender while it's going, it incorporates perfectly. It makes smoothies very satisfying! One shake I've been having for the last few days which holds me for HOURS is a modified banana shake:

2 frozen bananas
1 tbsp. ground flax seed
1 tbsp. liquefied coconut oil
splash of vanilla extract
stevia
and enough raw milk to get the right consistency

Delicious and satisfying.

[RudyB]

Bruun's Titting UP

wild, mom, i was gonna make something very similar today! and lifer, glad you got my telepathic message. what's with these psychic connections?!

hiya beloved bruun! that's cool what your bro said about your face! i bet it's the less-drinking, too. glad it went ok with your dad, though sad. i know what you mean about wishing you'd grown up in his generation. i feel like i almost did: we used to play around the neighborhood until dark (kick the can, rollerskating, kickball, bikes), food from the garden, dad walking home from the office for lunch, mom sending us to school with our lunches wrapped in wax paper in plaid lunch boxes. times have changed, but some charms of the past remain, like the fact that i still use wax paper, and when he's old enough, my son will be playing with the neighbors until dark. but enough about me...

i think it can be true, what your dad says about meeting someone in your twenties being ideal, but i think that tends to backfire for those who have huge transformations in their adult life: what if you change but your partner doesn't? once upon a time, we didn't change as much, i think, and it was more natural to stay and stay and stay together. nowadays, we might change as fast as technology, which can make a relationship thrilling, or send it to ruination. anyway, just musing here. i think it's never too late to meet someone and fall in love, and the best way to do that is to engage and indulge in things that captivate you, through which you'll meet like minds. bruun, how much do you think about that for yourself, about meeting a partner? i've never gotten the sense that it occupies much of your energy. (and, btw, did you call that self-absorbed guy who might fix your stereo?)

god, i'd better run if i'm going to get my run in before g's playdate ends...

fun rapping with y'all! les quiero.

xo ru

[Isolde]

Bruun's Titting UP

sjm;1206927 wrote: If anybody needs more convincing about the benefits of coconut oil, read the book by Sally Fallon and Mary Enig, Eat Fat Lose Fat.

While reading up today on brewing kombucha (I'm getting ready to bottle my first batch!), I came across a website that references a cookbook called Nourishing Traditions. I started reading up on it on Amazon, and I think it pretty much follows the way that I have been trying to eat for awhile. It's also written by Sally Fallon and Mary Enig - sjm, are you at all familiar with it?

With all of our talk about diet here and eating things that are good for us, I thought you guys might be interested: Amazon.com: Nourishing Traditions: The Cookbook that Challenges Politically Correct Nutrition and the Diet Dictocrats (9780967089737): Sally Fallon, Mary Enig: Books

[Bruunhilde]

Bruun's Titting UP

Hi Ru, thanks for the photos of your childhood, sounds like your folks did a great job, I already knew you have a great mom tho. les quiero! Good observation about how people change faster now - I think I always have, which is why I never got married, couldn't stand any guy for more than about 18 months once I turned 30. In my 20's, I had an 8 year romance tho.

Never called that guy - girlfriends told me he was a booty-call type of guy, in it for the sex with younger women plus there wasn't any chemistry or connection nor attraction for me. So ... you're right, I've given up on a partner until I beat this thing because I'm physically, emotionally and mentally not up for it. Ten years ago, I did and was - that was about your age, I think, 39? Or are you younger than that? This last five years the alcohol/depression/lonliness/working & living alone stuff has been robbing me of my life. I'm working on the AL first.

Is, yes that is a Sally Fallon/Weston Price book, I bought it for a friend a couple years ago. Don't own it myself, and have found my friend doesn't use the recipes out of there but she's not really a brew-your-own type of person, she has all sorts of friends who do it for her as a favor. She's very into fermented foods. Good book for that is Wild Fermentation I'm told, by the farmers market person. Just finished up The Raw Milk Revolution today - awfully written partly because its based on blog quoting (note to self, do not write book about self using bulletin board dialogs and blogs). Great history on raw milk tho, glad I'm in California!

In fact, speaking of books ... I'm about to finish the Jason Vale book, I'm hoping these last pages deliver the punch I need tonight and in the future. DG - if you see this, I was telling you (in my head while reading the book) a few minutes ago that I have commentary about his rationale and I think it works for some people like a charm and not others because of at least two issues, one being the one you suggested many people have here - Dual Disorders.

He doesn't address that, but I'm sure he would say once you quit the drink, you'll HAVE less anxiety etc whatever your disorder is, and you'll be more able to treat it. Problem is getting to quit while you're tortured by both? I see that as a bump in the road, and not insignificant.

(I see baclofen as a wedge solution here for many people who get relief from anxiety instantly on baclofen so they can then taper or quit. I don't mean they switch, I'm just talking about the people who find instant anxiety relief immediately upon baclofen and then can quit or titrate up to switch if needed.)

The other things about the book I think he isn't really addressing are the physical aspects beyond physical addiction itself, which he sums up as something that you can whiteknuckle out of in 4-10 days. Then its all mental - which is true I guess, but he doesn't discuss insulin response, hypoglycemia or chasing the highs which are all hand in hand in my book most of the time, in terms of driving the desire to drink. Which made me wonder as I was reading, is the quick light buzz I get from the first drink or two just sugar-fueled insulin response to hypoglycemia AND/OR is it actually a 'high' which I've always thought it was (in addition). I mean, does one cause the other, and if so, can a high fructose drink mimic the 'high' ? I don't drink soda so I'm not sure, but I doubt it, so then he's ignoring that people feel deprived and feel they are 'in recovery' for the rest of their lives because they still miss the buzz and feel envious.


He doesn't pretend to give you advice on quitting or modding (thinks that's a joke) due to everyone drinking being an addict whether we know it or not. Difference between "alcoholics" and "normal" drinkers is alcoholics have realized that we are sinking in the quicksand, we're just faster sinkers than the other guys. Doesn't mean everyone doesn't have a problem.

I think he stretches too much here - I have friends who really only want a glass, and he's saying they're addicts that have "restrictions" which keep them from spiraling out of control. I can see that in many people, mostly the very disciplined workout/health/one glass friends and family. I had/have those disciplines and restrictions tho and it ran away with me, but I'm out of control now and they're not.

And that one or two glass limit includes both my parents by the way. Both had alcoholic parents and can spot the drinker who had one-too-many a mile away (me). I didn't mean to insinuate earlier that Dad would encourage me to drink, just the opposite. He sees his alcoholic father in me, and that's the bad daddy, not the good one. Too bad my folks didn't do an intervention in my twenties when they saw their alky folks in me, but then again, who am I kidding? I wouldn't have listened. Would I have? Guess all that matters now is quitting.

The best thing about the book for me today is the off-loading of the shame of alcoholism. He says it makes it all the harder to feel okay about quitting when quitting means admitting you have a problem and you're defective unlike all the "normal" drinkers who don't have to quit. He says that's a load of crap. He says that you can instead look at the "normal" drinkers with sympathy instead of envy now that you recognize that they are on the same path you are, only less advanced, but still trapped by the AL. The only thing still remains for me is the high. I just want a couple of beers! But I can't moderate. I see lots of people talking about this book who seem to relate to the book like I am.

[Doggygirl]

Bruun's Titting UP

Bruunhilde;1207983 wrote: I'm working on the AL first.
I think this is a fabulous approach. I made lots of important decision in my life when I was still deeply active in my addiction and it's just not the best way to do things. Several decisions were disasterous. The ones that worked out OK I attribute more to luck than any sort of competent decision making. It's better I think to get healthy, THEN pursue a life partner!

I'm about to finish the Jason Vale book, I'm hoping these last pages deliver the punch I need tonight and in the future. DG - if you see this, I was telling you (in my head while reading the book) a few minutes ago that I have commentary about his rationale and I think it works for some people like a charm and not others because of at least two issues, one being the one you suggested many people have here - Dual Disorders.
I totally agree that different things seem to work for different people.

I'm sure he would say once you quit the drink, you'll HAVE less anxiety etc whatever your disorder is, and you'll be more able to treat it. Problem is getting to quit while you're tortured by both? I see that as a bump in the road, and not insignificant.

Take anything I say here with a grain since I am only a 1st semester student. I have also not read Jason's book - any impression I have was formed from reading lots of posts about it here. From what I have learned so far in my classes, I think you are right that in the case of dual disorders, treatment is not necessarily simplistic. (and frankly, it's not simplistic IMO for most people who do NOT have a second diagnosis!) I think the difficulty with anxiety in particular is that alcohol might initially be used to "self medicate" the anxiety. But then after a long time of problematic drinking, withdrawal causes anxiety (especially in the short run, as you well know) which ends up as a double whammy. So I don't think it's a simple matter of having an "aha" moment that drinking is bad, and just stopping.

(I see baclofen as a wedge solution here for many people who get relief from anxiety instantly on baclofen so they can then taper or quit. I don't mean they switch, I'm just talking about the people who find instant anxiety relief immediately upon baclofen and then can quit or titrate up to switch if needed.)

That contiues to make more and more sense to me too the more I read about it.


The other things about the book I think he isn't really addressing are the physical aspects beyond physical addiction itself, which he sums up as something that you can whiteknuckle out of in 4-10 days. Then its all mental - which is true I guess, but he doesn't discuss insulin response, hypoglycemia or chasing the highs which are all hand in hand in my book most of the time, in terms of driving the desire to drink. Which made me wonder as I was reading, is the quick light buzz I get from the first drink or two just sugar-fueled insulin response to hypoglycemia AND/OR is it actually a 'high' which I've always thought it was (in addition). I mean, does one cause the other, and if so, can a high fructose drink mimic the 'high' ? I don't drink soda so I'm not sure, but I doubt it, so then he's ignoring that people feel deprived and feel they are 'in recovery' for the rest of their lives because they still miss the buzz and feel envious.

I think it's far too simplistic to view physical recovery as simply getting the substance out of ones system. (detox) Research about the brain chemistry of addiction and the physical changes to the brain while drinking/using and the healing after stopping take MUCH longer than a few days. Maybe for people who have not progressed as far along the continuum of problematic use can detox over the course of a few days and be on their way. But that certainly is NOT true for so many of us.

He doesn't pretend to give you advice on quitting or modding (thinks that's a joke) due to everyone drinking being an addict whether we know it or not. Difference between "alcoholics" and "normal" drinkers is alcoholics have realized that we are sinking in the quicksand, we're just faster sinkers than the other guys. Doesn't mean everyone doesn't have a problem.

There is not a teacher I have, or treatment professional I know who would agree with Jason on that point. There are clearly people who can use alcohol in a normal, reasonable way and do so for a lifetime. Statistically, 10% of the general population (US) will develop abuse/dependence problems. That is a high % for sure. But it's not 100% of all people who take a drink.

Guess all that matters now is quitting.

Indeed! :l

The best thing about the book for me today is the off-loading of the shame of alcoholism. He says it makes it all the harder to feel okay about quitting when quitting means admitting you have a problem and you're defective unlike all the "normal" drinkers who don't have to quit. He says that's a load of crap. He says that you can instead look at the "normal" drinkers with sympathy instead of envy now that you recognize that they are on the same path you are, only less advanced, but still trapped by the AL. The only thing still remains for me is the high. I just want a couple of beers! But I can't moderate. I see lots of people talking about this book who seem to relate to the book like I am.

Then the book was well worth it!!!!!! No shame. I also try very hard not to compare myself to others - whether from the standpoint of being "jealous" of the ones who can drink when I can't, or from the standpoint of figuring out who is worse than me, who is on the same path as me, etc. I used to do a lot of that but I really found it to be quite unproductive. My life is monumentally better without AL in it, and that's all that matters for me.

I would love to see what a psychiatrist who is also properly trained in addiction treatment would suggest for you. It's hard to break the viscious cycle of anxiety / AL dependence because they feed off of each other so much. But I know it can be done because it's happening. HDB is one way, but I know people with anxiety are recovering in other ways too.

I hope I haven't been too long winded and opinionated (especially since i am a novice!!!!!!).

:l to you Bruun.

Hello Is, rudyb, sjm, Brenda, LL, spacebebe, Pete, LoOp, and anyone else who happens along!


DG

[Bruunhilde]

Bruun's Titting UP

Hey DG! Thanks for the feedback - I will have more to say about the book after tonight, and I have one short chapter left.

He does give more of a brain game/plan after all, like when you stop, you'll possibly think this or that, but it is KEY to think THIS and not THAT about those thoughts, they are just thoughts - he has some very good tips.

Most of the book is training you to continuously remember that Al is not your friend because would a friend do this and that to you, etc., and to view all the pro's of Al (fun, relaxing, party, etc) as not being about the Al, but being about the situation - you can drink anything and still have fun, or relax, etc. Stop giving Al the credit and start giving it more of the blame, in fact all of the blame, because Al has been abusive to YOU, not vice versa.

Well, and what is the alternative to quitting? Drinking and continuing down the road I'm on which is getting harder day by day, even as I drink less, because my body needs to heal without the poison inside it.

So, onward. I like the approach overall and look forward to using the tools.

So what is the new direction addiction therapy is turning? You mentioned that the old methodology is being debunked, but I don't know if you said what the new direction is going to be? Sorry if I just missed it, I don't see it here but that doesn't mean anything - this is a busy campfire!