Baclofen and underlying mood disorders.

[coalfire]

Hi folks. Got a question for you. Much has been said about Baclofen and anxiety. Thats why DR OA succeded-he treated his underlying anxiety. What about the people who dont have underlying anxiety but have an underlying mood disorder like bipolar or cyclothymia? Have you read/heard anything about what Baclofen could do for them?

[moglor]

Baclofen and underlying mood disorders.

I suffer from clinical depression, and baclofen did nothing directly to alter the depression. Quitting drinking, however, has made the problem much less severe, and easily controllable with antidepressants.

[Otter]

Baclofen and underlying mood disorders.

Hi

I found a book about the medical basis of psychiatry on the web. Here is what it says about anxiety and mood disorders. There seems to be an overlap and interestingly baclofen comes up again.

The Medical Basis of Psychiatry - Google Books

[coalfire]

Baclofen and underlying mood disorders.

Thanks. Some great information there on anxiety Otter. If anyone wants info on anxiety this is a great link to click. What I was looking for was information about baclofen on alcoholics who did NOT suffer from anxiety. I was wondering how Baclofen would work on bipolar alcoholics. Has anyone read/heard anything on this?

[Seethepony]

Baclofen and underlying mood disorders.

Well, as far as I know I've never suffered from anxiety. I just enjoyed the brew a bit too much.
Of course, now that I'm sober enough to realise what a balls up I've made of my career the last ten years, and how I probably can never make up for that lost time, I do feel a bit of the old anxiety creeping in under my fingernails, but it was never there before.

The reasons people drink are many and varied. Anxiety is just one of them. Ameisen's reasoning was fortuitous but not necessary right. It's a all a big fucking mystery, is my professional opinion.

[Bruunhilde]

Baclofen and underlying mood disorders.

Coal, you make a valid observation, alot of people with anxiety seem to benefit first from that ("that" being relief from anxiety due to bac), and that in itself is helpful, regardless of the drinking switch being hit or not.

I haven't done research outside of MWO on bac, so couldn't add more than this.

[Greg]

Baclofen and underlying mood disorders.

I am also interested in knowing this, since my drinking was always primarily due to depression/dysphoria (which occurred before my drinking became a problem), and two of my friends also seem to drink as self-medication for depression (having not responded to antidepressants).

Personally all I can say is that low doses of baclofen sometimes seem to help anxiety. By low I mean only 10-25 mg, taken as a single dose per day. I am less sure of any effect it may have on my mood however, since this varies a lot on most days.

[Sunnyvalenting]

Baclofen and underlying mood disorders.

there is a strong correlation between depression and alcohol dependence. (There is also a correlation between creativity and alcohol and drug dependence, abuse or addiction!). It is very interesting. Serious mental illness can make it harder to recover, but drinking makes it all worse. In my case, like Moglor's, my symptoms (depression) improved significantly when I stopped drinking. I now take 1/2 of an antidepressant a few times/week and it seems to be enough along with abstinence and healthy diet and exercise.
Sunny

[Otter]

Baclofen and underlying mood disorders.

coalfire;1053191 wrote: Thanks. Some great information there on anxiety Otter. If anyone wants info on anxiety this is a great link to click. What I was looking for was information about baclofen on alcoholics who did NOT suffer from anxiety. I was wondering how Baclofen would work on bipolar alcoholics. Has anyone read/heard anything on this?

Hi

I think you misunderstood why I posted the article. My wife was diagnosed bipolar so I have read a lot about it including Kay Redford Jamieson's "An Unquiet Mind". She came to the conclusion that bipolar was no different from any other depressive illness in that it stemmed from brain malfunction.

The article I posted says that there are various conditions which arise from a dysfunction of the amygdala serotonin system including mood disorders.

Here is another article more closely linking amygdala dysfunction with bipolar. Amygdala in Bipolar Disorder -- Neurotransmitter.net
The offshoot of this is that bipolar is part of a spectrum of psychiatric conditions which are treatable with baclofen because baclofen acts on the amygdala. My wife's mood swings have improved with her taking baclofen.

And, of course, all of this has made us question the diagnosis of "bipolar" altogether. The real issue is what is the organic cause of the behaviour and if it is linked to the amygdala serotonin system then it is likely to be treatable with Baclofen which works on that system.

I think the use of names to try to get to the bottom of it is not necessarily the answer. Many conditions are linked to a deficiency in the amygdala such as alcoholism, autism, aspergers, obsessive compulsive behaviour. Yes most people drink because they enjoy it and not because they suffer from anxiety.

So, some alcoholics may have a problem amygdala and a lot of manic depressives medicate with alcohol. But alcohol interferes with neurotransmission and damages organs and the brain at a cellular level. So if you did not have anxiety when you took up drinking you will once you have b-ggered your amygdala. Except of course, it is called "craving". Damage to the amygdala may or may not repair itself if you stop drinking, depending on the damage you have done. I suppose if you didn't start off with a dysfunction then when you give your brain a rest you return to normal without anxiety or being bipolar. It is very difficult to repair cell damage from drinking so many dry drunks end up suffering from chronic anxiety and probably mood swings. I found, after I stopped drinking that I had several anxiety like conditions and baclofen has sorted them out.

[seeking_serenity]

Baclofen and underlying mood disorders.

I just want to add that I was diagnosed as bipolar several years ago, but I now believe that the diagnosis was incorrect (although my psychiatrist was correct in assuming I was bipolar).

I think that being heavily into the AL trap can make a lot of us appear bipolar. I was definitely experiencing extreme anxiety/mania (and I talked a mile a minute) combined with horrible lows. But a lot of that can be attributed to being a chronic alcoholic with a huge tolerance (I was drinking 12-17 beers a day when I was diagnosed).

The "lows" stopped for the most part once I stopped drinking as heavily. And bac has pretty much eliminated the mania and anxiety--I talk at a normal pace, and I don't have the racing thoughts anymore. I truly believe that the mania was just caused by my underlying anxiety disorder--the same one that led me to the AL in the first place.

*EDIT: I should also add that the medications I was given to help me with the bipolar (Depakote, Seroquel, Lamictal) never seemed to do anything to help my "bipolar" symptoms at all. The Seroquel did help me sleep, though. Another reason why I don't believe I am truly bipolar.)

[Bruunhilde]

Baclofen and underlying mood disorders.

Seeking and Otter, I agree wholeheartedly with your statements.

In thinking more about it, I believe I drank for the sheer exhilaration it gave me, the joyfulness I got nowhere else, and too much drinking led to depression.

However, there is depression in my family, my siblings suffer from it, and one has been diagnosed as bipolar. We all fight the booze desire. Some more successfully than others, for financial reasons (she lives off my parents in their home at age 45) or because he was warned as a teen (somehow my parents saw him drinking and never noticed me being hellishly hungover and barfing and drinking during dinner making nightly!!!) ...and so never evolved the habit although the desire is strongly there and controlled by antidepressants.

It seems like it all feeds into a cycle. Being disabled by AL makes you depressed and anxious, and depression/anxiety led you/us to drink in the first place.

I've read that book, "An Unquiet Mind", due to my sister's diagnosis. Thought it had good info, but since I have a petite sized brain, I would have to read it a third time to remember any of it.

[ogel]

Baclofen and underlying mood disorders.

I found, after I stopped drinking that I had several anxiety like conditions and baclofen has sorted them out.

Hi Otter, Referring to quote above, would you mind me asking how much bac worked for you to sort the anxiety like conditions out and are you on a maintenance dose now? :thanks: O.

[Otter]

Baclofen and underlying mood disorders.

I have a prescription for 30 mg. I found initially it was difficult taking it. It made me feel a bit drunk. I have been on it for a year and can take up to 50 mg a day or sometimes only 20 or so at night. If I am really stressed I take some if I wake up at night. It eases the anxiety and once the stressful situation passes I can ease off. My hands are steady as a rock and I can now read my own handwriting. My doctor had no difficulty prescribing. It seemed as easy as if I was asking for aspirin. No questions at all. Perfectly safe and on the computer system and no issues renewing it each month.

[ogel]

Baclofen and underlying mood disorders.

Otter;1053648 wrote: I have a prescription for 30 mg. I found initially it was difficult taking it. It make me feel a bit drunk. I have been on it for a year and can take up to 50 mg a day or sometimes only 20 or so at night. If I am really stressed I take some if I wake up at night. It eases the anxiety and once the stressful situation passes I can ease off. My hands are steady as a rock and I can now read my own handwriting. My doctor had not difficulty prescribing. It seemed as easy as if I was asking for aspirin. No questions at all. Perfectly safe and on the computer system and no issues renewing it each month.

:thanks: Great info. and means a lot that you got back on this so quickly - great forum with great people:goodjob:

[beatle]

Baclofen and underlying mood disorders.

Otter;1053600 wrote:
The article I posted says that there are various conditions which arise from a dysfunction of the amygdala serotonin system including mood disorders.

Here is another article more closely linking amygdala dysfunction with bipolar. Amygdala in Bipolar Disorder -- Neurotransmitter.net
The offshoot of this is that bipolar is part of a spectrum of psychiatric conditions which are treatable with baclofen because baclofen acts on the amygdala. My wife's mood swings have improved with her taking baclofen.

And, of course, all of this has made us question the diagnosis of "bipolar" altogether. The real issue is what is the organic cause of the behaviour and if it is linked to the amygdala serotonin system then it is likely to be treatable with Baclofen which works on that system.

I think the use of names to try to get to the bottom of it is not necessarily the answer. Many conditions are linked to a deficiency in the amygdala such as alcoholism, autism, aspergers, obsessive compulsive behaviour. Yes most people drink because they enjoy it and not because they suffer from anxiety.

So, some alcoholics may have a problem amygdala and a lot of manic depressives medicate with alcohol. But alcohol interferes with neurotransmission and damages organs and the brain at a cellular level. So if you did not have anxiety when you took up drinking you will once you have b-ggered your amygdala. Except of course, it is called "craving". Damage to the amygdala may or may not repair itself if you stop drinking, depending on the damage you have done. I suppose if you didn't start off with a dysfunction then when you give your brain a rest you return to normal without anxiety or being bipolar. It is very difficult to repair cell damage from drinking so many dry drunks end up suffering from chronic anxiety and probably mood swings. I found, after I stopped drinking that I had several anxiety like conditions and baclofen has sorted them out.

This is very enlightening. Thank you Otter. So it all comes down to the amygdala, doesn't it?

I think this might tie in to what Dr. Levin is examining, as well (but I'm on shaky ground here). Except he has a much brighter outlook for people who sober up using baclofen.