Safe, comfortable baclofen dosage reduction rate?

[Bill Gorton]

I recently received part of my first order of baclofen. I'm trying to find out how quickly I could reduce the dosage in a emergency (supply problem). My immediate aim is to figure out how many pills I need in reserve for tapering so I can figure out how high I can go in dosage until my second, larger order arrives. I'd also like to figure out what an appropriate reorder point is for the future. I will repost below a table that shows how many pills you need for various tapering rates and initial dosages. See this thread for more context.

Please post your experiences with rapid dosage reductions below. I know everybody is different, and WD severity depends also on how long you have taken it, but several data points might give myself and others a better idea of how we might react.


[pre]Number of days between reductions of 1 pill/day
1 2 3 5 7
------- ------- ------- ------- -------
i 1 | 1 1 1 1 1
n 2 | 3 4 5 7 9
i 3 | 6 9 12 18 24
t 4 | 10 16 22 34 46
i 5 | 15 25 35 55 75
a 6 | 21 36 51 81 111
l 7 | 28 49 70 112 154
8 | 36 64 92 148 204
p 9 | 45 81 117 189 261
i 10 | 55 100 145 235 325
l 12 | 78 144 210 342 474
l 14 | 105 196 287 469 651
s 16 | 136 256 376 616 856
18 | 171 324 477 783 1089
p 20 | 210 400 590 970 1350
e 22 | 253 484 715 1177 1639
r 24 | 300 576 852 1404 1956
26 | 351 676 1001 1651 2301
d 28 | 406 784 1162 1918 2674
a 30 | 465 900 1335 2205 3075
y 32 | 528 1024 1520 2512 3504
34 | 595 1156 1717 2839 3961[/pre]

[Sunnyvalenting]

Safe, comfortable baclofen dosage reduction rate?

I was told to drop by no more than 10 mg/week based on a daily dose. But I think one could go faster than that. The clinic I went to erred on the side of caution as one of their patients had reduced too quickly and had a seizure. I don't understand your grid
Sunny

[bleep]

Safe, comfortable baclofen dosage reduction rate?

I was on 240, and safely dropped down to about 160 over the course of a day, with a resultant decrease in SE's. Of course, I then went back up to 240, so I don't know if this applies.

Currently I am decreasing at a rate of 20mg's a day, with no apparent SE's. I'll probably temper this every couple of days by staying at a level for 2 or three days.

[seeking_serenity]

Safe, comfortable baclofen dosage reduction rate?

Back in early January, I was about to run out of bac due to titrating up faster than was recommended. I went from 80/day to 20/day in a couple of days. I didn't have any bad reactions (but I'd only been on Bac about 3 weeks at the time).

[eight days a week]

Safe, comfortable baclofen dosage reduction rate?

I've just been browsing around here a bit the last week or two again after a very long hiatus, so no doubt have missed a huge amount of reported stuff going on over months and months.

Just to say that I find titrating down just as hard and dangerous as titrating up if I go any more than 10mg over five to seven days or so (three to five days for the effect to 'kick in' and a few more to 'stabilise' before moving on).

I don't see any difference in that between the brand, Pacifen, I had previously from InHouse and my now-regular UK prescription (Teva).

I may be an unusual case, but even a 10mg change can put me in physical danger (worst case - stuff like collapsing uncontrollably with a knife in my hand in the kitchen etc). It was of course even worse when I started Bac while still drinking alcoholically - I count myself lucky to still be alive (on two fronts, and in order of danger, but in reverse chronological order - the bac + alcohol cocktail, and then the alcohol alone).

Just a heads-up to some, perhaps. I get scared witless when I come on here and see how much Bac people are taking, but I emphasise again maybe that's just people like me - but we are out here, and people should be prepared imho.

All the best to everyone

[guardian]

Safe, comfortable baclofen dosage reduction rate?

As with the incidence of side effects, I'm sure it's a very individual thing. I've taken a few days off per week, and 5-6 in a row every month and a half since being on bac.

I find that withdrawal sets in 24-36 hours after discontinuing. I go from 225-300 a day, take a day off, then 50 and 25. After that I'm in the clear. Not great, but I'm not terrified of everything with uncontrollable tremors, rapid heart beat and sweating like in full-on withdrawal.

The nice thing is, now that I've been on for awhile, the cravings don't come back immediately despite not taking the stuff, not in the few days to a week that I take.

I've done this a few times, so that's what works for me. I never want to be so dependent on the stuff that the withdrawals would have me committed or worse, so I went into it with the intent on taking time off in order to prevent that.

Your call, but unless you are under the care of a physician, I would plan on taking breaks after you become indifferent.

[seeking_serenity]

Safe, comfortable baclofen dosage reduction rate?

guardian--no offense, but that sounds outright dangerous. Couldn't you go from 225-300 to, say, 175, then 125, etc.? Going from 300 to zero sounds like a recipe for a seizure.

[guardian]

Safe, comfortable baclofen dosage reduction rate?

Seeking,

I completely understand your concern. There are lots of horror stories associated with rapid withdrawal, from cases where the user had been on for a very long time. I take enough days off so that, IMO, tolerance and addiction never fully occurs. The longest I have ever been on without taking a day off is 1 week. Most weeks I take two days off.

That said, when I first started, I titrated down to test the waters. My way of doing this has come by way of careful trial and error. Baclofen doubles as the only effective anxiety medication that I have ever used, but tolerance develops to that about the time that I choose to take a longer break.

This stuff has not only liberated me from alcoholism, but it has also fixed some serious disorders in my personality. I am a very different person on baclofen, different and better than even from when I was just a little boy and I was free. I won't go back to the angry, anxious, insecure, alcoholic that I was. Ever. I just don't want to be dependent on the stuff. I've had enough of that for one lifetime.

[Guest]

Safe, comfortable baclofen dosage reduction rate?

Guardian

There is supposed to be no risk of addiction to Baclofen(and I think tolerance). Whenever I mistakenly put those words in a sentence I was seriously told off.

[guardian]

Safe, comfortable baclofen dosage reduction rate?

My bad blonde, I meant dependence(i.e., tolerance and withdrawal).

There is no risk of tolerance to the antispastic, and as we know the anticraving action of baclofen, but in my experience adaption to the anxiolytic effects takes place. If I don't continue increasing my dose, I turn into a mess. I was an anxious mess before baclofen, alcohol or not, so this could be individual to anxiety though. People who I have talked to that use it strictly as an anxiolytic describe the same tolerance and withdrawal, very similar to phenibut and GHB.

Edited

[Bill Gorton]

Safe, comfortable baclofen dosage reduction rate?

Sunny, the grid is just the number of pills you need in order to follow your chosen tapering schedule. For example, let's say you're taking 6 pills/day, and you want to reduce your dose by 1 pill every other day. You find where the row labeled 6 meets the column labeled 2 (for every 2 days), and the number is the number of pills you need, which is 36. Here's where that number comes from:

[pre]Day Pills
#1 6
#2 5
#3 5
#4 4
#5 4
#6 3
#7 3
#8 2
#9 2
#10 1
#11 1
-------
Total: 36
[/pre]

Thanks for all the responses. It looks like there is quite a bit of individual variation in sensitivity to baclofen WD. Apparently, some people like to decrease by 10/week, and others can go from 300 mg to 0 in just a few days without any major problems. I think I'll play it safe and count on no more than 25 mg/week. Which means my daily dose can't exceed about 5 pills/day until the rest of my first order or my second order arrives.

I tend to be very sensitive to alcohol WD effects. There have been times after binges when I decreased my drinking by 4-5 drinks per night, and soaked both sides of the pillow in sweat during the night. I had to get a new pillow, and switch to the other side of the bed, I was sweating so much. And then there were the nightmares. Horror movies don't compare to the dreams I used to have. I like to play it pretty safe now.

[Grommet]

Safe, comfortable baclofen dosage reduction rate?

Unfortunately, I am a current guinea in this expirement (not using the pig word). I'm glad this thread is current.

Was at 225 Fri and 175 today. No seizures. Going to hang out at 175 for a couple of days then move down 25 mg every 3 days. I'll let you know how it goes :upset:

[bleep]

Safe, comfortable baclofen dosage reduction rate?

I changed my titrating schedule down slightly. I had it all planned, was going to reduce slowly, blah blah blah, and thought, "Fuck it, it worked on the way up", so I just took 2 pills every two hours instead of three all day yesterday and so far today. That's a drop from about 330 / 300, to 160 / 180 (improved sleep meant missing a couple of doses, as well), where I'll hang for a little bit (day or three) before trying the same with 1 pill. In fact, I'll probably hang here for a week, to give the baclofen level time to stabilise. I know only too well that it's a fairly important level, and needs time to adjust!

I slept better, and felt 100% normal for the first time since the start of the journey. Feels great, I must have been a zombie these last few weeks, I now realise!

[Bruunhilde]

Safe, comfortable baclofen dosage reduction rate?

Thanks everyone who contributed to this thread. It has been very helpful and IF I was coherent enough to figure out who I owed what thanks for, I would detail it. Someday soon, hopefully I'll be able to do this.

[guardian]

Safe, comfortable baclofen dosage reduction rate?

Bill Gorton;1055357 wrote: Sunny, the grid is just the number of pills you need in order to follow your chosen tapering schedule. For example, let's say you're taking 6 pills/day, and you want to reduce your dose by 1 pill every other day. You find where the row labeled 6 meets the column labeled 2 (for every 2 days), and the number is the number of pills you need, which is 36. Here's where that number comes from:

[pre]Day Pills
#1 6
#2 5
#3 5
#4 4
#5 4
#6 3
#7 3
#8 2
#9 2
#10 1
#11 1
-------
Total: 36
[/pre]

Thanks for all the responses. It looks like there is quite a bit of individual variation in sensitivity to baclofen WD. Apparently, some people like to decrease by 10/week, and others can go from 300 mg to 0 in just a few days without any major problems. I think I'll play it safe and count on no more than 25 mg/week. Which means my daily dose can't exceed about 5 pills/day until the rest of my first order or my second order arrives.

I tend to be very sensitive to alcohol WD effects. There have been times after binges when I decreased my drinking by 4-5 drinks per night, and soaked both sides of the pillow in sweat during the night. I had to get a new pillow, and switch to the other side of the bed, I was sweating so much. And then there were the nightmares. Horror movies don't compare to the dreams I used to have. I like to play it pretty safe now.

I'd say that's a wise move Bill. I don't know how positively the alcohol withdrawals relate to baclofen withdrawals. I would think that if your sensitivity to baclofen SEs are pretty severe whenever you increase or decrease a daily dose after being on a steady course would be a pretty good marker for how you'll react to a rapid down titration. Once I get to the point where 300 is tolerable, 75 in either direction is sugar pill.