Sweet success! (with baclofen)

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I'm sure it's been done before, and will be done again, but it's fun, so why not right now?
This thread could also be known as:

Finding indifference/the sweet spot/the switch/the golden level
An Ode to Bac
and OH!

bleep;1052742 wrote: [img][/IMG]

Add your own success story, or quote in some of the old ones, if you'd like. but please add in some titles that are much more clever.
:l
Ne
I dedicate this thread to Dr. Olivier Ameisen, without whom none of us would have found this way out!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Sweet success! (with baclofen)

Here's mine!

I reached indifference last Friday.
I got home from work, was on the phone, did the usual. It was a couple of hours later that I realized I hadn't thought about having a cold beer. There were plenty in the fridge. And it was a REALLY lousy week. Still, it never crossed my mind.
Got a call from a MWO friend at 900pm just as I was about to run the vacuum cleaner. Spent an hour on the phone, then another hour on the phone with a local friend. Didn't want a drink.
It's been years since I've been able to talk on the phone after 8pm.

On Thursday night, after reading Reggie's post-switch post, and watching the video Otter reposted, I decided to go AF. I thought it would be a struggle the way it was the last time. Ha! Not even close. I simply forgot about booze.
Saturday was a little different. I definitely craved AL around the witching hour, but as it turns out, I was probably 80mg short of the goal of 320mg/day. (I'll never be sure.) But I'd put the beer in the house in the trunk of my car which is about 30feet away, and I couldn't be bothered to go get it.
Sunday I was bac on track, with a healthy 280mg in my system and feeling much better by the end of the day. Very little urge to drink, though husband was throwing back some very good beer and wine in order to celebrate the superbowl. My friend came over and we chatted for a while. He went home. I went to bed.
Monday (yesterday) 300mg ingested, it was simple again.
Four nights sober, and over a weekend! Four mornings without the slightest hint of a hangover or remorse for ingesting even one drop of AL. It's pretty unreal, people. But it's true, and achievable.

The week previous to the switch I drank maybe a dozen beers. Maybe. Over the course of a week! And still felt badly about it, worried that I would never hit the switch, find indifference, not care anymore. But here it is!

I'm looking forward to calling the Good Doctor (the only one I know, ftr, who has earned that title). I hope that he'll prescribe some xanax, even though I'm still nervous about taking ANYTHING other than baclofen. Much less something addictive. Still, I need more sleep and I trust him more than anyone other than a couple of people around here.

For all the angst I share on here, my 'real' life does not reflect that. I've been incredibly productive. Cleaning up literally and figuratively. Financial stuff that has weighed heavily on me for months and months. Taken care of in an afternoon. I'm looking for laundry to do at this point. I figure that the next time my home is messy and someone pops by I won't be ashamed of it. It'll be messy because I just didn't have the time/inclination to do anything about it. Not because I'm a hopeless drunk. And people can stop by now! Not that I'm the best conversationalist. Still pretty bac'd out and I'm having trouble following my own train of thought to fruition, as it were.
Even bac'd out I'm a better friend/person/etc... than I was even a month ago.
I'm worried about weighing in on other threads, atm. So I'll stick to this one.
I'm probably going to have to edit the heck out of this as it is.

s and and
Ne
oh. and woohoooo!
(Almost 4 months to the day after I started this bac journey. 11 months after I found OA's book. Less than a year, not bad in the scheme of things!)

[Grommet]

Sweet success! (with baclofen)

This is absolutely fantastic news! :applaud: Four nights sober, and over Super Bowl Sunday, is amazing. All the other comments you make about getting your life back in order are very encouraging. This is awesome, Ne!

[hopefulspirit]

Sweet success! (with baclofen)

Karen,
I've been following your posts and am thrilled that you're doing so well. I tend to drop in and out of MWO due to life demands but it's inspiring to see the continued success among members.
Please keep us posted...
-Hs

[Bruunhilde]

Sweet success! (with baclofen)

So good to see it posted, and inspite of all the online rollercoaster, you're saying you're doing well? Viva la difference! A new woman! Congratulations Karen, I know how hard you've worked to get here.

What are your plans for bac going forward?

[terryk]

Sweet success! (with baclofen)

Congratulations! (and welcome to the club). -tk switched @280mg/day Sept 26th 2010, @260mg/day currently.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Sweet success! (with baclofen)

Thanks, friends. I was sort of hoping this thread would be a collection of switch stories. Please someone (bleep!!!) quote your own (most beautiful, bleep) indifference/switch post here. I'm going to hunt down the ones that moved me (reggie/moglor most immediately) and post them here this weekend when I have some more time. Fair warning. If yours is not listed here, I'm going to put it up for my own happiness (of course) but also for posterity.
Ne

[Persona]

Sweet success! (with baclofen)

That's a very nice story. It's even nicer that you're able to confide in a doctor who understands what you're doing.

:goodjob:

[bleep]

Sweet success! (with baclofen)

bleep;1048427 wrote: This is my new username. The 69 was originally chosen after being suggested by a forum, when my chosen name was in use. Being me, I thought “Tee hee”, and have never looked back. It’s time to drop it. New beginnings…

I went in to my son’s room, and offered up a silent prayer, so profoundly thankful that he would live a life without the cloud of an alcoholic parent hanging over him.

I reached my switch after only 3 weeks, at 360mg’s per day, broken into 10 x 30mg doses. I had been on this dose for a day, dropping back down from 400mg’s. It is my belief that this even spread of dosage helped. I feel a fraud, having gotten here so easily, but I hope my musings will help those who come later. Come they will, because what is happening here will open a floodgate…

I reached it 2 days ago, when I had a cup of tea after a glass of wine. At first, I felt empty. The “goodbye old friend” feeling. Then I realised what had happened, and thought “Hah, fuck you booze, I win.” Against the odds, which have already turned against booze, for everyone, after years of booze being in control. I hesitated to post this, because it is so soon, but there is no doubt in my mind. I am filled with a quiet joy.

My plan is to go up one more level and remain there for a bit, then titrate slowly down to find my maintenance dose, which is hopefully low. Whatever it is, so be it. I want to be sure sure sure.

This is, and will always be, the happiest post I have ever made.

I want to thank my family, who put up with my endless shit, and stood by me through this. Everyone on this forum, and this forum itself, for being there. Without you, this journey would not have begun, and if it somehow did, would have been much harder. And of course, thank you to Dr. Ameisen without whom this definitely would not be possible.

My name is Ryan, and I was an alcoholic.

I hear you neva. There are some of the earlier ones I read from way back when, that I'm trying to dig up as we speak...

[beatle]

Sweet success! (with baclofen)

This is great. I mentioned earlier somebody should make a book of all the stories of switches. Now all the work is being done here. When it's all assembled, voila! Could be a bestseller (and not just in the addict community, either). We could also solicit stories from those that reached the switch, but never posted a story about it.

[gratitude]

Sweet success! (with baclofen)

awesome idea. that way we wouldn't lose people and their stories as they become sober and move on to normal lives away from MWO. more info for the newbies as they show up. good job.

[Road to Recovery]

Sweet success! (with baclofen)

My Story

Hey,
Here is my story cut from excerpts of my thread. Hard to believe that was me 1 year ago...

Feb 04 2010:
I just took my first dose of Bac; 5mg three times a day for five days than 10 mg three times a day. I will keep a log as well.
My drinking pattern is as follows:
1 beer and approx 0.5 pint of Rye per night - in a 2-3 hour span

Weight - 155lbs
height - 5"6
age ? 39

Feb 07 2010:
Day Three of Bac,
My days are somewhat like usual, thinking about how much al i have and when i will start drinking although I usually get 12 beer every week and today I told my self I do not want that much and didnt by any. Bac makes the al hit me harder blck ou a lot faster. I will be glad when the bottle of Rye is gone, I may try to finish it tonight, just to get rid of it. wish me luck!

Feb 09 2010:
Well no alcohol tonight, not that it hasnt been on my mind every waking moment today.
10mg of bac x 3 times per day.

Feb 11 2010:
I haven't tried Nal, I was going to but when I went to see my DR, he called a collegue that deals with addictions and alcoholism and he strongly suggested Bac. I dont know if you know my history but I was drinking every night and drinking until I blacked out. I started taking bac and within 4 days decided to stop drinking. I find I think about it alot but in the evenings now when I usually drink, I take the bac and it takes my mind off of it or maybe because I just say no but it makes me a little drowsy and I dont think about it and eventually go to bed and sleep ike a baby. If you have access to it, I would say give it a try

March 02 2010:
In case anyone is following this post...
I am now at 26 days on bac
22 Days AF
Currently at 20mg in morning - 20mg in late afternoon - 20 mg late evening
minimal side affects, a little bit of dizziness but not sevre.
No cravings, went to a pub for supper - ALWAYS have beer at pubs - last night - bottled water
Been eating better and excercising
weight is now at 148lbs
I love it!

March 17 2010:
Hi All,
Just documenting my progress.
I have not gone above the 20-20-20 dose of bac - does not appear that I need to. I am now 37 days AF. I had a challenging weekend - Went away for buisness, perfect opprotunity to drink, no one knows me, very easy to drink and not tell anyone. The hotel had a free "happy hour" everynight but I stood my ground, wasnt reall that hard. Anyway, just document my progress.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Sweet success! (with baclofen)

Toro;1046105 wrote: Hi, just posting my own personal Bac experience as prompted in another thread. I had a good 10 years of drinking under my belt, and was a very functional alcoholic, able to hold down a demanding job, family and relationships and was a pleasent drunk, rather than abusive, probably why I got away with it for so long. I still lifted weights, exercised and was able to hide it from close friends. But I had come to the realization that alcohol ultimately was wrecking my life, health and with our first child newly born, it was time for it to go.

Anyway I discovered this site one hung over morning and saw quite a few posts about Baclofen and decided to do a bit of reading on it, in particular Olivier Ameisen's experience which really brought things home. I had no problems getting a prescription (friends and family in the field) and set about slowly titrating up.

In the first couple of weeks, I did notice a few sides, mostly sleepiness, but nothing that remotely compared to the sides that alcohol gave me. I also almost immediately noticed that it had an immediate impact on my obsessive thinking about alcohol, I still wanted to drink, but I could now think rationally about it, rather than being completely and utterly compelled by the very thought of it . As a result my drinking went from 5-6 days a week, down to 2-3, the amounts didn't really change, as once I start I drink to get drunk and that's that, but it was a start.

As I dosed higher, ie 100 or so, I still had the same desire to drink, but I was able to control it on days I would typically drink by dosing up higher, hitting 150-180 or so on those days, while giving in on others when I didn't think any dose would be strong enough. This further cut my intake down, probably to what would be considered a normal amount for an adult, although taken in a binge, rather than spaced out.

I hadn't really thought much about the 'switch' and was a bit skeptical if it even existed, until one day while trying to resist what would be a guaranteed drinking day, I dosed up higher than ever before, going from around a 150 maintenance right up to 300 throughout the day with a last dose at 7pm. The only side I had was falling asleep on the couch about an hour later and snoring extremely loudly (the muscle relaxant effect on the throat muscles). And over the following week I discovered I was completely and utterly indifferent to alcohol. No longer had urges, no longer had triggers and I could rationally replace alcohol as a reward in the evening with a nice meal, movie and decent nights sleep.

Shortly thereafter had my first ever week in over 10 years alcohol free and soon it will be a month. I still know if I drink I will drink to excess and the greatest freedom is being able to recognize that, see the harm it does on the body and mind and treat it like any other poison and see that what it gives is only temporary, while what it takes is permanent.

I'm still on a low dose of Bac, around 40-60, because part of what made me drink to excess was my obsessive thinking and anxiety about issues that are very small in the scheme of things, but my mind would blow them up into something overwhelming by dwelling and obsessing about them, whereas on Bac I can view them rationally and see them for what they are.

I'm not sure if it will work for everyone, but certainly for those with a mindset of mine it does work wonders and not just in relation to alcohol.

Posted on this thread:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ory-47583.html

on January 21, 2011

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Sweet success! (with baclofen)

Reggie;1052116 wrote: The beginning

Apologies in advance for the length of this post, the route to the switch was a long one. If there is such a thing as a Baclofen map to get there quickly, I didn?t have one, and got horribly lost on the way. The post below I uploaded on the 4 of March 2010. However I reckon I have been taking Baclofen for well over 15 months. Above all else my experience is directed to every one, but especially to those who have been slogging away for a long time. DON?T despair, YOU will get there!

Engage in your thought processes while on Baclofen and bust open the box and get your present the elusive ?Switch, button, control knob, toggle, key, lever, change, and exchange? whatever word you choose. It is real!

I will break the whole experience up into separate stages from beginning to end. I hope my experience encourages others to keep on trying. Pondering my past spasmodic posts, I uploaded the one that most resonates for me.

4-3-2010

Can baclofen keep you stopped?
For ever lasting Sober....... that?s the main thing....... Baclofen can lend a hand in that area ...... but staying stopped!!!! and not getting drunk in the future at the beginning again is the hard part I do believe baclofen can short cut you to a stage where you have the opportunity to change you?re THOUGHTS and obtain a LONG LASTING sobriety but that takes a lot of work!!!! The drug doesn?t do that work for you..... Any way you look at it..... There is no pill that completely wipes out addiction in my opinion.... its much more deep than a brain temporary thing that needs a chemical tweak... just popping a pill that stabilizes the Gabba B receptor in my myopic view is not a cure as such...... Baclofen gave me the clarity to look at the choice of personal emotional destruction I have undertaken in my life .I wish to make a new choice and that is to be sober for the term of my natural life ....there in lies the cure of my addiction if I can get and cure that bit of my brain that made that first choice to undertake slow lifelessness by drink..... I do believe there is a way out of the nightmare that is addiction. I can now make the choice with hard work to undo that mistake. For me Baclofen allowed me to make a rational choice that the haze of alcohol prevented me doing....Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character that becomes your destiny.

To begin?the above post I still support but not as intensely!!! And have no idea at what stage I was at when I scribed this?..Bloody Addiction!!!!?. what makes it worse for me is that I believed myself to be a smart savvy individual beyond the claw hammer of addiction?..what a fool believes!!!!?.. It was something beyond me ....sadly my life has been defined by it.

Baclofen in the beginning for me presented a 2 for one offer. Instant eradication of an anxiety disorder I was not aware was so predominant and the HOPE to free myself from addiction to Alcohol.
It exceedingly produced the first?. Immediately?. the second took a long time.

I triated up very quickly in the beginning starting at 50mg up to 130mg within 5 days?50>70>90>110>130>. No side effects and I was doing this without the supervision of my doctor. I attempted to convince my Doctor to give me a script by providing him with the various articles and OA?s book ect. He brushed them aside and handed me a abridged version his Hippocratic oath he stands by, particularly this passage: ?I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of over treatment and therapeutic nihilism? Above all, I must not play at God?


O well lesson over?. decision made?. buy on line! My Doctor is a wonderful caring individual just of the old school and the oath does have some redeeming values when read in its entirety. I began using 10 mg Pacifen (generic NZ baclofen).

During this part of the trip I was drinking most days in the evening, one to 2 bottles of wine. Hangovers were brutal and overall life performance was fucked. But I persisted.

I got to 240 mg and had what I would describe as a LITE form of? switch?consumption decreased and over the next period I had AL free months, then weeks then days then zero. Next Bit.


Crashing by design!

During this period I ventured into a dark sewer of destructive thought. Drinking became a daily exercise. Some times on the weekend drinking began upon waking up through to pass out early evening. One to Two bottles then three with vodka on the lost weekends. All the time I was on about 180 mg baclofen. I was undertaking what I believed was a dare to my self to see how far I could go ( dumb and dumber) I wanted to travel the road of Arthur Rimbaud , Modigliani and other?s of the Decadent Movement . Yes indeedy my pretentiousness and ability to be a complete wanker expanded vastly and successfully with my blooming intake. I remained in this stupid state for quite a while.

Then I purchased a different brand of bac (Indian generic) 25mg and at a whim triated up quickly over a couple of weeks to 300mg I think? but I was so erratic it may have been more.

I dared my self into an episode alright?.. an episode of bloody complete mania. I awoke one evening bout 2:00 am ?a complete brain snap I couldn?t lie down I was grating my teeth mumbling weird shit to my self?a overwhelming sense of impending doom?I was literally pacing the house waving my arms as if I had just swallowed a vat of seriously uncut biker crank?I was frightened beyond belief?my poor dog? I clutched and squeezed her soft fur and her licks began to bring me down slowly? took 5 hours. At work the next day I had to go into the test room and lie down on the ground as moments of mania crept back?.I triated down immediately to 240mg and leveled out pretty quickly?.NEVER again?. I would not wish that experience on any one it was bleeding horrible. That?s what comes from being a dumb arse.

I put the reaction down to the different Bac. I believe it was a lot stronger than the Pacifen ?not a bad batch, now I have had a chance to think about it, but in conjunction with the massive booze intake and the extremely fast triation up to 300mg my mind went into melt down. Above all? Stupidity and dumbness mixed up with a good dose of wank produced this result.

Please do not let this deter you as I was asking for it and received it in spades. However I felt I need to post this experience as it is a reminder that although baclofen is not addictive and safe if used sensibly...it is still a very powerful pill whose dosage is not to be messed with. The next bit.

Baclofen + Resolve

Baclofen on its own and drinking was not working for me? I figured?. I am running a marathon here and I don?t need too ?. Yes substantial periods over the 15 + months al free was achieved but not a large percentage and definitely no real sense of lasting indifference?what was missing???????.PING ?.RESOLVE: defined as?. make ya fucking mind up ? to deal with (a question, a matter of uncertainty, etc.) conclusively; settle; solve:

Stop drinking?triate up slowly? from current 180mg increasing doseage by 20 mg every third day to 300mg again if necessary?..resolve to stop piss farting around and do it!!!! Resolve to reach the switch, push the friggin button. Determine to stop this shit that is destroying my life. The Jig is up!!!!!

I went cold turkey thanks to baclofens other benefit ?as an effective AL withdrawal med. Studies cited by Otter and others testify to this?I had no withdrawal issues. However while triating up the first week al free was bloody hard! Nothin you can do about it...Just DON?T pick up that first drink no matter what! It got easier after the second week. Next bit.

The switch

I didn?t wake up and go great I have hit my switch?I had at this stage reached 280 mg a day I had maintained this dose for a period of weeks. I started drinking again but drastically reduced. By this I mean I may get through one bottle of wine twice a week if that.

Eventually, I just stopped. Not consciously like the first effort just drifted into abstinence is the only way I could describe it. No craving no drinking thoughts. I was under whelmed?and went up to 300mg just because I could?no side effects slight sleepiness at work in the after noon and insomnia at night ?but not chronic awakness?spose I am lucky as far as the SE?s go.

For me the first awareness of indifference to alcohol was like an out of body experience. Sorry to be so esoteric but ?the defining experience involved me getting ready to go fishing which usually involves me buying enough booze to induce erratic casting ?usually getting the hook caught in a tree feeding my bait to the seagulls and catching nothing except a couple of starfish? However this time instead of going to the supermarket to get some soda water for the day, as it was a longer walk, I went to the bottle shop which was closer. I had a weird sense when I got to the entrance that my past boozy self stopped at the door and my baclofen self walked in?you can imagine the shop it was Mr Magoriums booze emporium top to bottom bottle after bottle all lit up and reflected in mirrors of booze ?.. No desire No thought No stinking thinking. It felt like I was before I became an addict 20 years ago the ?pre addicted me? when I never drank and could barely finish a can of beer when given one. I walked to the fridge got 2 bottles of soda water and went to the cashier?she asked is that all sir? Yep I said and walked out. No epiphany no bolt of lighting just a plain boring purchase of soda water from a bottle shop ?was my introduction to the elusive switch. There were other experiences of a similar nature. I also share a house with a boozer. I open the fridge numerous times through out the day to be confronted with several bottles of wine no desire no thoughts of ?just one?. In fact the boozer left half a glass one night and I thought Id smell it just out of interest. It smelt disgusting like nail polish remover. I thought maybe Baclofen changes your olfactory receptors in the brain along with the GABA B .An adjusted sense of smell? Maybe? ?it wouldn?t surprise me.

Not drinking quickly became my norm?but suppressed emotions began to surface hence my reference to hard work that lay ahead to fix the addiction mistake I made 20 years ago. I won?t go into this part as it is quite personal. However, needless to say mental clarity, thanks to baclofen has allowed me to make the right choices and re discover myself. Well that?s it?. switch enlightenment?boring hey.

Final thoughts.

Baclofen re aligned my fractured synapses tweaked my GABA B receptor ? this allowed me to engage with an alternative. Life with out drink?when I was drinking there was no alternative, hence the feeling of slavery and incarceration we all feel in the black box of addiction. It fixed this part but I wish there was a metaphysical agonist that could be mixed in with the GABA B agonist (baclofen) then the hard work of the future would be easier.

For me however the whole 15 + months and its conclusion can be summed up in the simple statement used by others here ?I don?t drink? these words encompass every emotion and motivation I need right now, resolve, gratitude, hope, happiness, a future. These words were always the basis of my hope. To summarize, some points on the overall effects that baclofen produced for me

? Complete elimination of a anxiety issue I was oblivious to, with regard to its severity
? Prevention of withdrawal symptoms from AL after the black period of going completely off the rails.
? Weight loss in conjunction with a reintroduction of everyday exercise? this was a very important breakthrough baclofen and exercise go so well together?Lo0ps thread on this and diet are excellent.
? The ability to relax and step back in moments of stress.
? Massive increase in libido
? Motivation?no longer incapacitated on the couch in hangover fog?a day now encompasses ten fold productivity! Things get done with enjoyment.
? Thinking about stuff again and not being scared of confronting disturbing or difficult emotions.
? Little actions like peeling a boiled egg are easy compared to the hungover mess created when trying to do this with trembling hands and sweat dripping in my eyes.

And on and on. All good stuff!

A few negatives.

? Sleepiness at the most in appropriate times.
? Drifting off and day dreaming when in a conversation
? Insomnia
? Increased pissing through out the night leading to constant trips to the loo. An inconvenience.
? Silly behavioral episodes, such as the time at the supermarket when I started filling some one else?s trolley up with my stuff not realizing my trolley was half way up the other isle leading to being yelled at by the lady trolley owner? what the bloody hell are you doing I?m not paying for your meat!!!!?
? Muscle weakness and being a bit wobbly when at 300mg

Threads I used that helped me:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ead-38718.html

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...age-41376.html

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...age-41377.html

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ise-39134.html

Other tools I use a TENS machine info here

NET drug treatment. NeuroElectric Therapy.

Books
Six Thinking hats Edward De Bono
Easy way to stop Drinking Alan Carr
7 weeks to sobriety

A Australian Hypnotherapy tape specifically for alcohol addiction

Please accept my apologies for the very un scientific description of my Bac trip?I realize there are inconsistencies and a lack of explanation for some matters. Time period inconsistencies and confusion. But I decided to express my experience by way of pivotal moments. I would reveal what happened to me on the long road trip in an impressionistic way if you like. Memory over 15 + months can be a fluid thing.

Above all else Baclofen works and the Switch is very much a real brain chemistry shift to wonderful indifference. I encourage all to stick with it and go slow as a snail if need be the length of time is irrelevant the result is real and so worth it.

I am currently on 300mg and have decided to stay there for another month before I slowly triate down. I have a massive amount of suppressed emotional bog to confront and re learning life as a non drinker ?but I am now optimistic but also painfully realistic at the amount of work that lay ahead. The sense of emancipation from the slavery of addiction is exhilarating. Baclofen did its bit with a leg up but the rest is just beginning.

Thanks for reading if you got this far

All the best
Reg
Posted on this thread:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...tch-47810.html

on February 1, 2011

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Sweet success! (with baclofen)

:goodjob: everyone! Keep 'em coming!

:groupluv:

Ne