The Switch and Indifference

[Greg]

The Switch and Indifference

Hey UK, I've read of your problems but have been a bit hesitant to post, since I'm not one of the major baclofen people on the forum.

Do you think you could take baclofen to get rid of most alcohol cravings and also take Antabuse to force yourself not to give in to any remaining cravings? I ask because I used Antabuse in my initial time of being alcohol-free, and it definitely gave me the mental boost I needed to avoid giving in to drinking each night. It can be really hard going just taking Antabuse by itself, but taking some baclofen aswell could help while not bombing you out so much. If you felt less cravings back at 100 mg/day then maybe that was a sort of switch for you, although not a magical thing that removed every single thought about alcohol. I'm just remembering back to when I read Dr Ameisen's book, and he said that his own switch dose was the dose at which his somnolence would not go away even after a few days. Maybe some people can't get a 100 percent reduction in thoughts and cravings using baclofen, but can still get substantial relief, maybe enough to help them use extra methods like Antabuse. Naltrexone plus baclofen could be another option if you still drink to some extent, but you would probably already know about this, and I think loop is one person here who does this.

Best wishes, sorry if that information is not useful or is stuff you already know about. If you are like me then you have probably already tried nearly everything for alcoholism by now. I did once read that Campral can almost totally stop alcohol cravings, but only at very high doses (way above clinical doses), and that amount would probably make someone violently ill from nausea and other digestive side effects. I think it was only a study in rats anyway.

[Guest]

The Switch and Indifference

Thanks Greg for that.

I have thought about AB, but the thing is I had a bad reaction to it when I tried it some years back. I started it after 10 days AF and did not touch a drink, even watched out for vinegars etc. But after taking it for 3 weeks I started to become feverish, ached all over and developed a rash. I was so ill I collapsed in the surgery at my Drs and was sent home with a telling of for drinking/ordering stuff on the internet. I know I hadn't had a drink but I do not wish to be that ill again. I was off work for several days.

I guess I could ask my GP for it but am so very scared - you see I collapsed in a fit, with eyes rolling around, back arched etc. Absolutely horrible.

[Greg]

The Switch and Indifference

P.S. Probably ignore that last part about huge Campral doses, I can't find the source of that info (it was a scientific article somewhere). I wonder if anyone has found success with a normal daily dose of Campral plus baclofen? Just an idea. Another idea is to space out the baclofen, into numerous small doses throughout the day rather than just a couple of doses, someone here mentioned that. Again you have probably already tried that, but if not, it could make a big difference to the tiredness.

[Greg]

The Switch and Indifference

We posted across each other sorry...you could be allergic to Antabuse, it certainly sounds like an allergic reaction. I'd be wary of it too if that were the case. I personally took a 1/4 pill each day, just enough to make me scared of drinking, but even that small amount could be dangerous to anyone having an actual allergy to it.

[Guest]

The Switch and Indifference

Yes I do suspect I probably have an allergy, or that it was my perfume. If the latter I can't use AB because I do come into contact with substances containing alcohol on a daily basis, so still a no-no.

I think a lot of people have an idea I've not tried other options. I've been trying to stop drinking for 8 years now and have tried most things. I am now reluctant to keep fiddling, the best success I've had so far was using mental tools last year.

[redhead77]

The Switch and Indifference

I wish I had something wise to say, and helpful advice, but I don't. I can tell you that you are not the only one having a hard time. I read somewhere (maybe on Neva's thread), a thought about premenopausal women having a harder time with the SE's at lower doses. It was just a theory of course. I wonder if there is some truth to that. I believe we are around the same age.

I don't know how to put in words my experiences at the moment (I'm not very articulate when feeling this way). I think the best way to explain it is my emotions are cyclothemic. I will change by the day or even have huge mood swings in the same day. One day I will feel complete euphoria and the next, darkness. To the extent that I'm not sure if I can do this. I'm not saying that I'm suicidal, it is a fleeting thought. I have too many peope that rely on me. It is nontheless disturbing.

I haven't felt this kind of depression in a long time. I also ftr, went off my antidepressant to go on baclofen. It worked really well or me. I have tried many, and nothing worked until Wellbutrin. I guess I can't take it, and Dr L said we could try me on others if I need it. Unfortunately, most of the names he gave me of the safe ones, were drugs I've tried without success.

Right now, I know I'm hormonal as I will be getting my period in a few days. I also just went up in my dose. I feel pretty dark and while my hope is still there, that this will work, I wonder if I will ever be able to cope with these SE's to "get there". I will continue to try. I hope you do too. I'm rooting for you girl. I believe it was Longshot who said this is hard work.

Greg, I know one woman who said that campral saved her life. I don't believe the research is all that promising for this drug, but for her it really worked. She tried everything and has now been sober for over a year. She is only one person I have ever heard of. I guess it could be worth a try. Anything is worth a try to kill this beast!

Hang in there UKB.

[Greg]

The Switch and Indifference

redhead77;1064084 wrote: Greg, I know one woman who said that campral saved her life. I don't believe the research is all that promising for this drug, but for her it really worked. She tried everything and has now been sober for over a year. She is only one person I have ever heard of. I guess it could be worth a try. Anything is worth a try to kill this beast!

Yes, unfortunately I have read this too. I had some success with it about 10 years ago when it was new in this country, managed to stay sober about 2 months, but that may have largely been desperation on my part. A recent academic source about various drugs painted a dismal picture of the conventional alcoholism drug treatments, including Campral and non-Sinclair naltrexone. I guess I'm trying to think of anything and everything, not just for this forum but also for friends of mine who are becoming hopeless drunks. Campral also only works if a person remains abstinent or only has an occasional lapse, from memory.

[bleep]

The Switch and Indifference

Hi UK, sorry to hear about your troubles, doesn't sound a fun ride at the moment. You are in our thoughts, if that helps.

Red, I also got massive emotional swings, which surprised the hell out not-really-emotional me. They went both ways, and only lasted a day or two, so although it's tough, try not to be too concerned, it will pass, and is just a further sign the baclofen is working on your brain.

On the bright side, you probably have a manic period coming your way, which is great fun!

[LadyLush]

The Switch and Indifference

Red,

I know my time is coming so I don't want you to think I ignored this. I just started on 60 Sunday so I will keep all informed. Don't quit if you can handle the se's; this is "our way out"!

Lady:l

[JohnR]

The Switch and Indifference

John's post

Hi all,
I tried TSM on MWO two years ago along with an experimental group and after about 6 months when it wasn't working for me, I was criticized for not following protocol (which was not at all true - I followed it completely) and I was discouraged from posting further results as they may in-turn discourage others who wanted to try TSM which of course I did not want to do. As a result of all of this, I found myself angry and isolated and the whole experience caused me to withdraw. I digress.

Two years later I am still desperately searching and I just started bac on 2/18. I am doing 15mg/day mostly because on that dosage, I can get by for 2 weeks until my next shipment arrives.

My background: I'm a 40 yo male, nightly drinker for the past 10 years. I drink 2 (or so) vodka drinks and then a bottle of wine per night. I oversee two large corporations and several employees and my job is extremely demanding. Like Bill, I don't have anyone I can tell and so I am doing this entirely alone (but not alone hopefully with some MWO support). I am carrying a note in my wallet stating my bac dosage just in case I get hit by a truck or a pedestrian and I am documenting my progress which at this point I feel is too preliminary to post.

I am cautiously encouraged by the positive results so many have experienced from bac on MWO and that is why I have decided to try. I am starting slowly because I am notoriously sensitive to meds and I don't know how high I can go but I will try anyway because the alternative is undoubtedly much more grim.

[bleep]

The Switch and Indifference

Hey John,

Brilliant news, welcome bac to your life, in more ways than one!

I suggest you start a thread, that way your updates don't get lost amidst other posts, and we can follow your story a little easier...

You need to order a LOT of this stuff - even going up slowly, you will be amazed how quickly you can get through it.

Good luck!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

The Switch and Indifference

Ukblonde;1063642 wrote: What else is causing me to slow down like this?want to sleep all the time, red itchy eyes etc?feeling lethargic?

Two months ago I was almost as lean and mean as Loop here. Took baclofen and my drinking just went to everyday, lost my will to work out and diet etc almost instantly. My drinking cravings are less but I don't want to do anything else. I've quit the bac for a few days at various points and the side effects have disappeared. I've felt alive again but of course the cravings then return. So I take the bac again and the tiredness and bloating returns. I've between a rock and a hard place. Within an hour or two of taking baclofen I'm really not able to do anything but sleep. Yesterday my eyes were crossing all the time. Got 5 hours of driving to do today, and last night I had a dream that I crashed my car then couldn't remember doing it. Great one.

Perhaps my SEs are a hallucination. All I know is that I've persevered as suggested and the nightmare just carries on.

I posted the long-winded response on my thread. The short version is this: It's not all in your head. I've been there. I too wondered if I'd have to quit EVERYTHING in order to take high-dose-bac. Had some really weird SEs. Was summarily called crazy, dismissed, then ignored on these boards.

A rock and a hard place indeed. I understand.
I'd forgotten, and for that I apologize. I think it might be a lot like childbirth, not that I'd know. But I forgot how excruciatingly painful and life altering this ride has been.
I'm very sorry, ukblonde. Again! I am listening, finally. Let me know if there is someway I can help.

[Guest]

The Switch and Indifference

Ne/Neva Eva;1064236 wrote: I posted the long-winded response on my thread. The short version is this: It's not all in your head. I've been there. I too wondered if I'd have to quit EVERYTHING in order to take high-dose-bac. Had some really weird SEs. Was summarily called crazy, dismissed, then ignored on these boards.

A rock and a hard place indeed. I understand.
I'd forgotten, and for that I apologize. I think it might be a lot like childbirth, not that I'd know. But I forgot how excruciatingly painful and life altering this ride has been.
I'm very sorry, ukblonde. Again! I am listening, finally. Let me know if there is someway I can help.
Karen

Thank you, yes it can be very hard to remember what we've been through ourselves. Anyway in the short time I had with my counsellor yesterday we managed to work through some things that had been affecting me regards a relationship I had last year, which repeated a pattern in my life. It was liberating to understand why I feel doubt at times, and don't always act for my best interests.

Yes I was called crazy, unstable and ignored. But I don't care if people want to treat me like that then it's their issue, not mine. I've had some wonderfully supportive pms recently, quite a few not from people who post in the meds section. I actually find this part of the forum can be quite closed, or at least appear that way, and I'm touched by those following my struggles who have been there for me.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

The Switch and Indifference

JohnR;1064168 wrote: Hi all,
As a result of all of this, I found myself angry and isolated and the whole experience caused me to withdraw. I digress.

Two years later I am still desperately searching and I just started bac on 2/18. I am doing 15mg/day mostly because on that dosage, I can get by for 2 weeks until my next shipment arrives.

My background: I'm a 40 yo male, nightly drinker for the past 10 years. I drink 2 (or so) vodka drinks and then a bottle of wine per night. I oversee two large corporations and several employees and my job is extremely demanding. Like Bill, I don't have anyone I can tell and so I am doing this entirely alone (but not alone hopefully with some MWO support). I am carrying a note in my wallet stating my bac dosage just in case I get hit by a truck or a pedestrian and I am documenting my progress which at this point I feel is too preliminary to post.

I am cautiously encouraged by the positive results so many have experienced from bac on MWO and that is why I have decided to try. I am starting slowly because I am notoriously sensitive to meds and I don't know how high I can go but I will try anyway because the alternative is undoubtedly much more grim.

Hi, John and :welcome: I hope you'll find the answers here. I did!

ukb, glad you had some good counselling yesterday!

[JohnR]

The Switch and Indifference

Thanks for your welcoming responses. :thanks:
Bleep, I believe I have ordered lots, #200 25mg. Should I order more? Also, should I start a thread this early?
JR