This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

[Guest]

This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

Thanks for that quote NE, seems that I really did get the depressive SEs. Before then I was usually very upbeat whenever sober or inbetween binges, Baclofen made me feel as if I'd been run over by a train. Been waiting to see a change but it's not quite 7 days since I was around the 150ish mark and started reducing my dose. Still forcing myself to do the essentials, then retreating to bed and closing my eyes hoping the world will go away. Just wondering how long it's going to take now!

[redhead77]

This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

I believe Wellbutrin combined with bac, may reduce the seizure threshold. So does Wellbutrin combined with booze, which I did for a long time. It is more of an issue for those prone to seizure. On Epocrates, it is contraindicated to combine the two. Dr L wouldn't let me start bac until I was off of it. He did discuss with me some other options. Some I've already tried, others were old and archaic and known to cause severe SE's. I don't need more SE's. He told me he would research it in depth, if the need arose.

I've only responded well to Wellbutrin. It is a unique antidepressant, in that if affects dopamine. It may have been why I smoked very little, too.

I have been struggling with depression on and off since I was a teen. It started when I was raising an alcoholic mother. It does seem to be situational with me. I think I'll try the supplements first. When I can back off the bac a bit, low dose Wellbutrin may again be an option.

Do you guys remember redheaded loving big "Daddy" from CL? The Daddy thing works. In a whirlwind of correspondence, it turns out he is well educated and handsome. We exchanged pics. And very passionate from the way he writes.

I'm digging this one. In correspondence only, we've all heard of the CL killer. I know I've had terrible judgement in men, but really I didn't. I just didn't listen to my intuition, ignored warning signs. I've been testing this one, he's passing.

But.....I've decided to chill on the correspondence. I've decided I'm looking for yet another distraction. I'm bored and restless. All work and no play, makes the redhead want to stray.

He accepts all my baggage. The baggage he knows about. We know I come with a ton of it. He of course doesn't know about this. I like this guy enough that I don't think it's right, to not be my authentic self. I also think I'm too new to sobriety (with the mishap), that this could prove dangerous for me. I have to sit tight for a while, and repair all the crap I've done to my life and myself. It really sucks, cause I would like to take it further for sure.....sigh. Who knows, maybe he'll be around when I get my shit together.

Today, I am going to get ready for Easter. I can say with certainty, this won't be a holiday that I get drunk, pass out, and don't get ready for the kids. For that I am grateful to baclofen. Baclofen 100, Alcohol 0.

Redhead

[Chi]

This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

Hi Red just want to chime in that I too know how you feel. I felt very similar after drinking on Thursday (mostly motivated by wanting to pass out and sleep) I felt guilty the next morning and hungover. I didn't want to post about my "failure" but in the end did anyway because as Ne said the fact that we can be totally honest here is what makes this place so great for support and helping to deal with the issues that come up.

Today is a new day, and the bac will still do it's job. In other words you are still on the right path. IMO getting used to sobriety is a journey all it's own and we didn't ingrain our drinking habits over night so dealing with those habits and undoing them will take some time too.

Part of that I think is sometimes testing the waters. What do we learn from that thought? Yesterday I learned that HELL to the NO on these damn hangovers!! I'm kind of glad the hangover on bac is so sucky because I think the deterrent is a good thing.

Drink lots of water today, rest, and get bac in the saddle

[bleep]

This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

Hi Missy,

I still drink. Normally I'll have a glass of wine when I get home from work. It relaxes me and I use it as a sort of ritual to offload my working day. Occasionally, I'll have a second glass. If I go out with mates, I'll probably have quite a few, and get a bit pissed. Some nights, I have nothing.

Baclofen has turned me into a normal drinker, basically. In fact, compared to most people who drink, I probably drink less. In the beginning, this filled me with worry. Why was I drinking, if I was indifferent? I have come to terms with it now, and am very happy with where I am. I drink now because I enjoy a glass of wine. I am able to drink nice wine now, since I only have a glass, instead of the boxed crap that I drank because of quantity.

Red, what are your plans regarding your dose? Are you going to try taper down, or are you going to remain at your current dose? Bear in mind that SE's will soon be a thing of the past, regardless of which path you choose.

[missyabby1]

This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

Hi Bleep,

Thanks for your very clear and honest answer.

Red, hope all goes well for you.

missy

[Doggygirl]

This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

Hi Red! Just wanted to wish you happy Easter.

I hope your depression lifts soon. That is such a bummer. My AA sponsee was talking to me just this AM about depression she is feeling at about 30 days AF now. If you try something you think helps, I'll be interested to hear about it.

Best wishes figuring out what to do with CL Daddy.

DG

[bleep]

This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

Missy, I just re-read your post, and realised I didn't answer most of your questions, just the drinking part. Sorry about that!

It's not that I feel it's wearing off. In fact, as I take it more, and get to understand how it affects me better, I'm coming to feel that it's more effective than ever. I am indifferent to alcohol, which now gives me the choice as to whether or not to drink. I have chosen, perhaps unwisely, to have a drink when I feel like it.

Sadly my toolbox consists of one tool only, baclofen. I have the willpower of a drunk flea at the best of times, throw any sort of craving in there and that's me done. Luckily, although baclofen is lonely in my toolbox, it is for me an extremely effective power tool.

The long term effects of baclofen at these doses is a little worrying, I must admit. However, they are unknown, and quite possibly benign. The long term effects , even the short term, of me drinking like I used to are very well documented, and was almost a sobering thought back in the days!

[redhead77]

This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

Happy Easter!

I had a good night last night. I got everything done I needed to, SOBER. We colored eggs. I waited till they were well into dreamland, and then I hid them outside for their hunt today. I also did some creative easter baskets. I woke up without a hangover to watch their joy.

I'm entertaining this evening and after I get off this forum, I will be a whirling dervish in the kitchen. Creating a mouthwatering dinner for my guests.

I'm not feeling depressed at all today. I feel rather good. The SEs don't even seem too bad.

Bleep, to answer your question from before, I don't find drinking to be as pleasurable an experience. If I do drink, it's mostly out of habit, or to make a bad feeling go away. Which was a habit of mine too. I will stay at the switch dose for as long as I can. If side effects abate, I will stay here for months. If not, well I've got to put dinner on the table. I can't put that off much longer.

Murph, your thread is getting cobwebs. Did "they" say, you weren't allowed to be funny anymore?

Ne, thank you for the kind words and encouragment, you are one of my lights.

Ig, I too usually view the glass as half full. It is hard when you are in the black pit of depression. Lets hope things start to look up.

Chi, are you going to start your own thread? It's hard following you around, if time is lacking. I think a thread would be brilliant.

Missy, I can get aggressive when I drink too much. I don't mean fiesty or fiery, I'm talking overly angry. It's the only time. I have been watching your posts for a while, realizing this was the case. I know when you aren't drinking, you are lovely.

Moglor, where do you read that bac and buproprion are safe together? I wonder if high dose bac would change the safety?

DG, Daddy will have to wait. In my last email to him, when I told him we have to cool it, he said he would wait for me. I won't hold my breath. We've only been corresponding a short time. I do have a few things going in my favor. I'm a natural redhead (those aren't easy to find in this country) and we share all of the same interests and passions. Who knows, maybe if he does move on, he'll ditch her when I come knocking.

Have a peaceful day all!

Redhead

[moglor]

This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

redhead77;1104555 wrote: Happy Easter!
Moglor, where do you read that bac and buproprion are safe together? I wonder if high dose bac would change the safety?

Glad to hear you had a happy and sober Easter! So did I. I'm feeling pretty good today, although I have been having stomach troubles.

I never read anywhere that they are safe together, and I didn't intend to indicate as such. I have been taking both for about 6 months now, and tolerate the mixture just fine, so I have some anecdotal evidence that it does work for me (although I still experience some depression.) I have not found any articles that suggest they are contraindicated, and my own (layman's) research suggests that they have significantly different neurochemical pathways[1][2].

The drug interactions website also does not show any interactions[3]. Both drugs do, however, seem to carry with them some increased tendency towards seizure, as does alcohol withdrawal, so the triple whammy might be why doctors don't want to prescribe this cocktail. In fact, bupropion with alcohol withdrawal is explicitly contraindicated in the prescribing information[4]. There are some conflicting articles on baclofen and seizure, however, so it's unclear if it really does lower seizure threshold or not.[5] I am not sure if you will be able to read that pubmed article, but it basically says they tested it with epileptic patients and did not find significantly increased seizure activity, and in some cases convulsive seizures were reduced. Since I am not predisposed to seizures, and do not experience significant alcohol withdrawal, I felt confident in experimenting on myself, but as you alluded to, it IS important to note that all of the baclofen articles top out at 80mg/day.

There's a bunch of medline/pubmed articles on bupropion and alcohol, but nothing that I've found that describes any studies with bupropion and baclofen together. I am certainly not making medical recommendations to anyone, but I can say that I myself have not experienced any complications, even with (unfortunately) heavy alcohol use and high dosage baclofen (200mg/day.)

Hopefully that's some useful information.

-Moglor

[1] Baclofen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (and related articles)
[2] Bupropion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (and related articles)
[3] Baclofen and bupropion Drug Interactions - Drugs.com
[4] http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_wellbutrinXL.pdf
[5] Baclofen. Its effect on seizure frequency. [Arch Neurol. 1983] - PubMed result

[Cinders]

This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

Redhead,

My doctor will not give me Wellbrutin because I take Neurontin (Gabapentin.) She says it would put me at a higher risk for seizure.

Gabapentin is an anti-seizure med that I take off label for nerve pain, as it works for that as well.

If Baclofen is in that same category, it is possible it would create the same issue.

You can always call a pharmacist and ask. They probably know better than a doctor.

Cindi

[moglor]

This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

I should also add that my doctor did not prescribe me bupropion until I had been off alcohol for at least 72 hours.

[Bruunhilde]

This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

Murphyx;1103744 wrote: From Red and elsewhere, but I'm buggered if I remember where. I think it may have been one of those sites where you input all the meds you're on and it flags up the bad combos.

I've been wondering what you've been up to, Murph. :moustache: Going for joyrides and stuff, eh?

[redhead77]

This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

Hi All!

:thanks: Moglor for the great information. I looked up today where I had originally seen that wellbutrin and bac may be a problem. It's on Epocrates. I will post a link, they state the two may increase risk of seizure.

https://online.epocrates.com/noFrame/showPage.do?method=drugs&MonographId=156&ActiveSec tionId=4

I am doing fairly well. I remain indifferent, after my mishap. Easter was lovely, here at the house. I made a scrumptous dinner for my guests. The wine and beer were flowing for them. I did pour a glass of wine with dinner. I didn't want to seem weird. I didn't even finish the one. It just didn't go down well. Nobody seemed to notice. They were busy talking, laughing, and enjoying themselves. Just the way it's supposed to be. :h

The depression seems manageable at the moment. I have good days and bad. I'm still waiting for my new supplements to come in the mail. I am able to deal with it for now.

I worked out again today. I hope to take off this baclo-weight. I replaced the battery in my scale and I've gained 10 lbs since starting bac. It's exactly what I had guessed. :upset:
I know I'm not the first one. I'm told as soon as the SEs disappear, that I will get back in the groove. Here's to hoping.

Redhead

[redhead77]

This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

Oops, I guess my link didn't post yesterday. I had written a post in my thread, and one of my kids messed with my computer, so I lost it. I had to rewrite the post. I checked the first time, but not the second. Here it is, in all its glory. I believe if you move your mouse over the drug in question, it will tell you the interaction, or potential interaction (thanks Ne).

https://online.epocrates.com/noFrame/showPage.do?method=drugs&MonographId=156&ActiveSec tionId=4

I've been thinking about the night I drank too much, after hitting the switch. Here's my personal inventory on the experience: I drank because I was depressed, but I also drank to quell the inner rage I was feeling. The rage that I'm now feeling regarding my less than perfect life situation. I did not have the physical desire to drink too much. I was using the only tool I know to ease the pain. All I know how to do is drink down the rage.

That has got me thinking about 12 step programs and what they do right. I do believe there are positive things about AA. Some things that come to mind, are the face to face interaction that occurs. One can actually make real life friends. Friends that are suffering from the same debilitating disease we are. The other is the concept of a sponsor. I love that concept. I think if I had a sponsor, I could've reached out to that night. There is an excellent chance, I wouldn't have taken a drink. I really wish I had a sponsor. :l

I got my supps in the mail yesterday. I started them last night. This is just more stuff than I normally take, which is mind boggling. They are aminos acids and some multi vitamins. L glut and All One (thanks RedT), and I ordered whey protein. To help with my blood sugar and working out. Whey protein is LOADED with aminos.

I think it's good they are in powder rather than pill form. Alcohol abuse destroys our digestion, so I'm hoping this makes the nutrients more easily absorbed. On a good note, I tried the powdered L glut and I'm not having my usual reaction. Which is horrible gas. I made a joke on another's thread. When I take L glut in pill form, there is enough methane in this house, that it may pose as a fire hazard. :H I know TMI! I want to post the delicious and healthful shake I made to mix my supps in, but I think I'll post this now. I don't want to risk losing it. I'm sure I'll be called away in a moment. I'll be bac soon with the shake recipe.

[missyabby1]

This Redhead's Baclofen Thread

Hey red, I also drink to quell the rage......past rage, present rage, unqualified, unquantified , indescribable, thorough rage. Alcoholic rage....maybe........sadness.....definately.

Anger always hides sadness.

Missy