Bac Induced Sleep Issues or The Sleep Thread

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Bac Induced Sleep Issues or The Sleep Thread

COS, I can't help but think you're a little depressed. It sounds like it. And while I hope you feel better, and support you in the struggle, I'm having a VERY hard time with some of the stuff you're posting. Not because I don't appreciate your opinion. I appreciate almost all opinions. My problem, COS, is that you are putting this stuff out there as absolute fact and in general discouraging or frightening people with (mis)information. Just because you "believe" something to be true, or because it's true for you, does not mean it's true, or true for me.
So I'm feeling like I need to spread some truth around here.

COSGringo;1355103 wrote: Well, actually I used seroquel last night. Slept like a baby. Think I could have slept another couple hours.So you take it, but you don't think others should use it?

COSGringo;1355103 wrote: Don't want to rely on benzos dailys and antihistamines are a drag too.
I don't want to rely on anything. Ever. Not even baclofen. It's simply a tool I use to get and stay healthy. I have many tools. Including benzos for anxiety, antihistamines for allergies, exercise, nutrition and meditation for all of the above. I take Nyquil when I have the flu, despite the fact that MANY people would tell you that once you are in recovery you cannot touch anything with alcohol in it.
Sometimes I even have a glass of wine! Or TWO! Imagine that!
So my take away is that one can use medications, and time tested tools, without completely understanding them, in order to make oneself feel better. I mean, hell, cold medicine doesn't do anything but make us feel better. Should we not use that either?

The other takeaway, the BIG HUGE lesson, is that baclofen changes the rules of the game. Completely. And if and until you figure that out, I'm pretty sure you're going to think it's all boring.

COSGringo;1355103 wrote: I've read a lot of horror stories about seroquel when people wanted to get off it. I also worry we are messing with things that are beyond our understanding that's all.

There is a ton of information to be learned about this and a great deal of understanding to be had.

It is very ironic, however, that we know very little about baclofen, and yet you took that to get well. And took A LOT of it. WAY more than recommended. Yet you suggest that taking other medications, well within safely prescribed doses, many prescribed by our doctors, is unsafe. Not just unsafe but a really terrible idea.

It is absolute fact, without question, COS, that xanax has helped more people than baclofen. Many, many more. And very few people abuse it, or become addicted to it. Just like alcohol. Everyone drinks. 10% of the population (apparently) drinks like I do. Should we also ban alcohol for everyone?
COSGringo;1355103 wrote: I mean I don't sit here and think of thigs to worry about but brain chemistry is not a human standpoint.

Then what is it? Add to your quandary/worry that the most compelling research about baclofen to date is still from rat studies.

COSGringo;1355103 wrote: I am not just talking about seroquel either. So many of the drugs we use have phrases like "it's not understood why" in other words we don't know how these things work but just the end result is good.

Please see above. The list of things that work, without our understanding, is enormous. Gravity, for instance. just sayin'

COSGringo;1355103 wrote: I am getting bored with baclofen. I am tired of being tired. I have to supplement energy drinks to keep going. That can't be good. The somnolence is not getting better at all. I also wonder about what all these chems are doing to us.
I guess baclofen could be considered boring. Sobriety can be boring, too, if you crave drama.
Why are you still somnolent? Would you like suggestions about how to deal with that from people who have been there, tried a bunch of things, and then moved past it?
If you want to know about how the drugs work, then look it up. We've compiled plenty of good, sound scientific research on the Consolidated Baclofen thread, and that's a good start. There are many more you can look at in order to get a more in depth understanding.

COSGringo;1355103 wrote: Again, it's not about just seroquel. Most of the folks I read about having seroquel issues were taking a lot and it was prescribed. 25mg is plenty for me to sleep. I went to our "place" for it and they are cheap that's for sure.
So the issue, then, is not the medication. It's the quantity and length of time one takes it. Wow. I wonder if we can then assume that that is the case with many of these medications...

COSGringo;1355103 wrote: Sounds like you are doing great which is awesome!

Truth: She is. She's one of my mentors because she is happy, and well adjusted, and getting stuff done. And THEN she turns around and spends an inordinate amount of time helping people like you and me. If you ask her, she might help you, too.
And another truth: I consider you a friend. I hope we can remain friends. But you're worrying a lot of my other friends. And that concerns me.

Take good care, COS.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Bac Induced Sleep Issues or The Sleep Thread

COSGringo;1354607 wrote:
It's an antipsychotic. Looks like something that Holmes character was on at his hearing. Gives some that feeling of thorazine the next day.
We have NO idea what that man was taking. And what does that have to do with it?

COSGringo;1354607 wrote: I think xanax is good for falling asleep but it is more of a anxyiolitic than a hypnotic like nitrazepam which is also longer lasting.

The reason many people can't fall asleep is because they are having massive anxiety. A hypnotic doesn't work in those situations. It makes it worse. Guess what does work?

COSGringo;1354607 wrote: All this stuff worries me though because of the rebound effects. Try sleeping without it once you become dependent on these things.

If you use any one of these things, really anything, as a tool, then you shouldn't depend on them. And you won't. Dependence comes from long term use. Like with baclofen. Upon which you and I are now dependent. Which is A LOT better than being dependent on alcohol. Right?
Let me give you a hypothetical, COS.
What if someone was suffering from incredible and chronic anxiety, panic attacks regularly and completely unable to cope and they happened to have a prescription from the doctor for xanax or a different benzo. And what if they were concerned about becoming dependent, so they did some online research and they came across this site. And they saw repeated posts about the dangers (without the facts) and they decided not to take it, or to stop taking it completely. And then what if they got really, really sick and unbalanced.

Now that situation is hypothetical. But my friend Michelle, who lived a couple of miles from me but whom I met through MWO, stopped taking the Ativan she'd been taking for a couple of years. 1mg, every night, and it didn't really seem to have an effect one way or another. She also got tired of taking the antidepressant she had been taking for about 10 years. Panic attacks, chronic daily anxiety, and insomnia resulted.

She shot herself in the head a couple of months later.

Be careful, COS. What we say here may save someone. But it could harm them too. It is not for you to say whether campral, or naltrexone, or xanax will work for someone else. Because one of those things may save someone's life. Regardless of what the research, or a doctor, or the evidence says.

It is only for you to say what worked for you. That's true for all of us.

[COSGringo]

Bac Induced Sleep Issues or The Sleep Thread

Again, I am just talking long term here Ne. I am not preaching from a soap box telling people to just stop using meds. Some here are experimenting.

A lot of AD's and such were found to have horrible long term issues later down the road. Same with a lot of drugs and for that matter mega doses of "natural" supplements.

I never said xanax does not work. Of course to say it's not addictive is putting your head in the sand. Shoot it's horribly addictive and tough to come off of. A simple google will tell you that. I've seen it elsewhere the horror stories of coming off of it.

I am not going to do this back and forth about this. It's a simple fact though some of us are over medicating. I see people on here popping this and that and are still going back and forth with personal issues.

I am sorry to hear about your friend. Perhaps it was not time for her to stop taking that stuff. Was this done under medical supervision? You can't just stop taking this stuff. Ativan does give you big time rebound insomnia. No doubt about it. Same with anxiety.

I am just going to lay off this forum for now. I already am getting PM's from some folks you might notice aren't posting much anymore.

Thx for the help.

[RedThread12]

Bac Induced Sleep Issues or The Sleep Thread

Awesome. Here we are, a bunch of drunks . . . and we're playing nicely!!! i really, really, respect that. I always (in my life and in my posts), try to use the pronoun "I;" regarding all of my experiences, opinions, etc., and acknowledge that what works for me clearly does not work for everyone. Of course, at one time I thought the per centage would be much higher :H:H I was WRONG!!

I can't tell you how many conversations I've killed in a flash when someone says to me, "You know how you feel when someone does such and such . . . " And I smile and say, "Well, tell me first how YOU feel, and I'll tell you if that's how I feel. I don't really know what you're talking about." I'm a geek, I'll admit, but language is really important. ESPECIALLY if I am making suggestions or trying to guide someone through a challenging event. I ALWAYS assume that, botton line, THEY know more about what is right for them than I do; but if they're reaching out, it is right and proper for me to share my own experience, knowledge or understanding as directly and even forcefully as possible. And, as you've posted, dear Ne, it also pushes me toward impatience and discouragement when it appears that I need to repeat things . . . multiply.

That said, I think this is a glorious little thread for several reasons. 1) Cos went to the trouble to read back and FIND it; 2) It gives me the opportunity to give him the same information again :H:H; and 3) It made a conversation that I believe will greatly contribute to the entire forum regarding putting things on the table and working together.

Re seroquel timing, Cos, I think you are spot-on. For a long time I HAD to be in bed 30-40 minutes after I took it, because i would sleep wherever I was. And I really hated waking up in the middle of the night, sitting on the couch with my computer in my lap.
When I first started taking it, it made it hard to walk to the bathroom once I'd taken it. But all of that is gone. And miracle of miracles . . . I used to get up several times in the night to go to the bathroom, and now I never have to do that.

And about sober being boring . . . well, that's a something that only you can sort. There are several threads about that, I think; and I definitely remember lots of posts. In fact, I think our dear Ig recently posted that if he had handled some underlying issues when he got sober with bac the 1st time, there would probably not have been a 2nd (or 3rd?) time. But I'm thinkin' it's great that you're sober enough to even think about all of that!!

[COSGringo]

Bac Induced Sleep Issues or The Sleep Thread

Hey Red,
I am not sure where I said being sober was getting boring.
I said being on baclofen was boring me. It's boring me because I am always tired. There's the bore in my life. I get my work done and the essentials and that's about it. I am going down on my bac dose and see how that works.

I like being sober.

I did not look this thread up. Ne brought it back up and it was sitting near the top so I peeked at it. I don't dig around in this forum anymore to be honest.

As far as the seroquel, you are misunderstanding me there, too. I am not rehashing. I wanted to be sure when I should take it such as right before I go to sleep or well before it. I have not had that knock down feel but I am always tired anyways. Just wanted to get a take on how long it cycles through.

I want to get away from benzos for mid insomnia.

Thanks for your help!