Daily dosing record - beatle

[beatle]

Daily dosing record - beatle

Hah! It's only 9 days later (depending on which time zone you live in -- to be honest, it's 10 days later where I live, in GMT+1.)

So quick update:

After pushing towards 300mg/day again and again and again and hitting a wall, with extreme and debilitating SEs, I decided to go back down and start from about 200mg/day and take it up at 20mg/day/wk, as per Dr. L's protocol. Other people also privately suggested this. And it made perfect sense to me. If I could not get to 300mg/day, then I had to go back and try again.

I should mention that I also had a prescription for xanax from Dr. L. I thought using those pills in conjunction with titrating down and back up on bac, I could manage to inch my way towards my switch.

Dr. L had no problem prescribing the benzo, and said it would not be so addictive in conjunction with baclofen.

I tried this, but as I went down (and maybe I did it too fast -- I started to lose track because of the following), my drinking, and, most importantly, attitude towards al regressed to my earlier obsession with, and constant need for, al.

After a few days, I realized what was happening, and went back up fairly quickly, over a few days, again.

I should mention that the bac SEs all but disappeared, except for the insomnia and the anxiety. xanax helped this somewhat, but then the increased al consumption made the SEs of xanax quite crazy, to put it mildly.

Now that I am back up to 280 or so, the SEs have returned, but not quite as bad as last time. I think.

However, the increased al consumption did not go away. And I feel ever further from the switch.

I haven't posted much because:

a) I've been kind of drunk most of the time (even though I don't feel drunk at all),

b) I feel like a loser and a downer, having struggled for so long. I just want to reach indifference and report back here-- telling about my trials and tribs -- and explaining how I finally got there.

Meanwhile, another MWO-er suggested I drop my extensive supplement regime because the supps might be interfering with the bac process.

I thought about this idea for a while, but came to the conclusion that there is every reason to believe that I desperately needed the supplements, especially the amino acids, and if anything, they complement the bac regime.

But (and this is a BIG but), I also started to think about the binders and other "non-active" ingredients in all the supplements I take, and then it dawned on me that these might indeed counteract the bac.

I'd really like to hear what other people think about this.

Now I must get some sleep. I will be traveling for some time and hope to work on this idea.

[bleep]

Daily dosing record - beatle

Beatle, I have found that when I have fiddled with my dose, for whatever reason, and then gone back up, it has taken several days for the increase to make itself felt in my drinking, so don't be alarmed if there is no immediate effect.

Bear in mind that while your research may show no contraindications with baclofen and various supplements, nobody has really taken baclofen at these doses before. Also, none of the research done has had this effect of baclofen in mind, so they wouldn't have been looking for this in their research.

I think if there is even a small chance that they are interfering, then you owe it to yourself to try a month or two completely supplement free and see if that doesn't give baclofen a chance to work.

Something has to change. This seems to be the obvious one.

The two reasons you give for not posting are perhaps the two most common reasons people post here!

[redhead77]

Daily dosing record - beatle

Hello beatle,

I'm sorry you are still struggling so. I think you already know how I feel about this. I am thrilled to have found indifference, but it is hard for me to see you go at this, for so long.

How high are you willing to go, on the bac dose, to find indifference? Or, have you not decided yet?

I took loads of supplements and still found indifference. The only supps I didn't take, were aminos. I only started those after the switch. I would say it is unlikely they are interfering, but it wouldn't kill you to stop them, and see. Even though for you, the thought might feel like it.

I don't think I would stop any supps that protect against cellular damage, if I were drinking a lot. Vit C, alpha lipoic acid, ect. I wouldn't stop multi vits or b's either. These have been proven in studies to protect alcoholics, substantially reducing damage to the body. I'm sure you already know this. I can't remember what all you take. Is it further back in your thread? I know you listed it somewhere.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Daily dosing record - beatle

Doesn't everyone think that a swing by Ne's home in sunny springtime Virginia should be on beatle's itinerary???

I am reevaluating my stance on xanax and breathlessly awaiting more info from Bill P. I think ... I think I'll wait to think out loud!

beatle, my df. up or down. but dude, with a plan. It's hard to have a plan for anything when one isn't sleeping, is taking gobs of bac and has a very full life. But a schedule could be really, really beneficial, imho.

This is my first post from my brand-spankin'-new mac because I had an hour long lesson this morning and finally learned how to use the mouse pad! WOOOHOOO! Very appropriate that it is here!
xxoo
(watch me scroll with two fingers! You'll see it soon enough!)

[beatle]

Daily dosing record - beatle

yay on the mac, Ne. (you know you have a zealot at your disposal night and day, right?)

And Red and bleep, thank you for your feedback on the supps.

I'm still thinking about it, but have decided to cut back to the bare essentials for a while.

I've been slowly moving over from gelatin to vegcaps, and that might help. Don't know why I ever bought those capsules made from the hoofs of horses and cows (and bones and organs, etc.). Ewww is the word. But I don't want to throw it all away. Or maybe I should.

Just thinking out loud here.

[beatle]

Daily dosing record - beatle

And I'm also waiting with bated breath for Bill P's explanation about xanax.

And for Bill P.'s explanation for everything, for that matter.

And whilst bating my breath, came across this:

(World Wide Words: Bated breath)


Q From Steve Gearhart: Where does the term baited breath come from, as in: ?I am waiting with baited breath for your answer??

A The correct spelling is actually bated breath but it?s so common these days to see it written as baited breath that there?s every chance that it will soon become the usual form, to the disgust of conservative speakers and the confusion of dictionary writers. Examples in newspapers and magazines are legion; this one appeared in the Daily Mirror on 12 April 2003: ?She hasn?t responded yet but Michael is waiting with baited breath?.
It?s easy to mock, but there?s a real problem here. Bated and baited sound the same and we no longer use bated (let alone the verb to bate), outside this one set phrase, which has become an idiom. Confusion is almost inevitable. Bated here is a contraction of abated through loss of the unstressed first vowel (a process called aphesis); it means ?reduced, lessened, lowered in force?. So bated breath refers to a state in which you almost stop breathing as a result of some strong emotion, such as terror or awe.
Shakespeare is the first writer known to use it, in The Merchant of Venice, in which Shylock says to Antonio: ?Shall I bend low and, in a bondman?s key, / With bated breath and whisp?ring humbleness, / Say this ...?. Nearly three centuries later, Mark Twain employed it in Tom Sawyer: ?Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale?.
For those who know the older spelling or who stop to consider the matter, baited breath evokes an incongruous image; Geoffrey Taylor humorously (and consciously) captured it in verse in his poem Cruel Clever Cat:
Sally, having swallowed cheese,
Directs down holes the scented breeze,
Enticing thus with baited breath
Nice mice to an untimely death.
[I?m indebted to Rainer Thonnes for telling me about this little ditty, which appears in an anthology called Catscript, edited by Marie Angel. However, it was first published in 1933 in a limited edition of Geoffrey Taylor?s poems entitled A Dash of Garlic.]

[RedThread12]

Daily dosing record - beatle

:wd:

[moglor]

Daily dosing record - beatle

One wonders if Ellis' choice of the name Bateman was intentional. A fictional character with whom I share many similarities, but fortunately not the homicidal psychosis! :-)

[bleep]

Daily dosing record - beatle

Thanks, I enjoy little facts like that!

What are your "essential supplements?" Isn't that an oxymoron?

[beatle]

Daily dosing record - beatle

No, not an oxymoron at all. Essentials would indicate those supplements that my body would absolutely need to function. But not all supplements are essential at all. I take many herbs and aminos that I believe are beneficial, but that I could eliminate for a few weeks to see if it increases the baclofen efficacy.

I think eliminating the essentials, however, most likely would lead to my body not getting enough nutrients and would in fact make my body less able to cope with the SEs, even if they were to be reduced. Believe me, I have thought this through quite thoroughly.

As I said, I also think eliminating gelatin from the picture could be helpful (and not so eewww), and I am going over to only raw food vitamins because they are made from, yeah, real foods. In other words, they are not chemicals synthesized in a laboratory to mimic naturally occurring substances. They are food. As they say on the labels: Does not need to be taken with food (Most vites do need to be taken with food (because they are NOT food), so they can hook onto the food to get in the bloodstream -- and also so you don't get nauseous from the chemicals on an empty stomach.) These synthesized vites may in fact be interfering with the bac -- another chemically synthesized substance to mimic a naturally occurring substance in all mammals. So, in a sense, I consider bac to be a supplement. (I've said this many times before, and I stand by it.)

[Lo0p]

Daily dosing record - beatle

+1 for giving it a shot and just dropping them all.

[redhead77]

Daily dosing record - beatle

bleep;1116865 wrote: Thanks, I enjoy little facts like that!

What are your "essential supplements?" Isn't that an oxymoron?

Bleep, there are definitely essential nutrients, especially for an alcoholic. The brain damage associated with alcohol abuse, is directly related to a deficiency of thiamine. Alcohol robs the body of B vitamins, when its being broken down. It also affects the gastric and intestinal mucosa, making absorption of vitamins more difficult. It can cause C and D deficiencies as well. It is well known and studied. Thiamine, folate, and multiple vitamins are given, and recommended to any patient who claims to have abused alcohol in the recent past, or is currently abusing alcohol. Replacing these important vitamins may even prevent or decrease alcohol withdrawal. There have been studies that have shown some antioxidants to be effective in repairing the liver and other areas of the body from the ravages of alcohol abuse. It wouldn't hurt anyone on this forum to take some of these vitamins for repair. Just sayin. I'm kind of passionate about this!

Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome - PubMed Health

[Murphyx]

Daily dosing record - beatle

Beatle, you're absolutely right regarding the gelatine, gross stuff. When I was vegan I was extremely careful to avoid all animal derived substances, whether they went on the inside or the outside (fake leather shoes are to be avoided at all costs imo), but now that I'm vegetarian I seem to be less fussy. I wouldn't dream of eating flesh, obviously, but I hadn't even considered the gelatine capsules, which is extraordinary when you think of how they're made. Thanks for reminding me.

Red, so which antioxidants help repair the liver?

[bleep]

Daily dosing record - beatle

Red and Beatle, I hear you and agree that there are some things we should probably all be taking. However, I think that just stopping everything for a couple of months won't lead to any health disasters. A couple of months without some vitamin that the rest of the world doesn't even normally take won't do any harm at all. "But the rest of the world doesn't drink as much as..." I hear you say. You'll be fine, it's two months. I think you owe it to yourself to try.

[moglor]

Daily dosing record - beatle

Murphyx;1117082 wrote: Red, so which antioxidants help repair the liver?

Rooibos has been shown to be effective in improving liver function.

Does rooibos tea (Aspalathus linearis) support reg... [Gen Physiol Biophys. 2008] - PubMed result

It's also delicious as iced tea. I buy in bulk from Amazon.