Is baclofen the new AA?

[PbarE]

Is it possible that we are pioneers in a historic movement? I know most people who post here have a bias against AA. And while this is definitely a ?tongue-in-cheek? post, I can already see some similarities between the two movements. Consider this:

Each movement has a founder who, on the brink of ruin, came up with a radical idea that saved his life;

AA ? Bill Wilson (from New York)
Baclofen ? Oliver Ameisen (lived in New York)

Each founder was joined by a humble physician from the American Midwest, who helps them further the movement:

AA ? Dr. Bob (Akron, Oh)
Baclofen ? Dr. L (Chicago)

Each movement has a basic text that serves as a guideline for the program:

AA ? The Big Book (originally entitled The Way)
Baclofen ? Heal Thyself (originally entitled The End of My Addiction)

Each movement has a protocol that must be followed in order to have a successful completion:

AA ? The 12 Steps
Baclofen ? Dr. L?s titration schedule

Each movement has a defining moment, at which point the obsession to use mind altering chemicals leaves:

AA ? The Spiritual Experience
Baclofen ? The Switch

After the obsession to drink or use leaves, each movement requires some daily activity to maintain what has been gained:

AA ? Steps 10-12, meetings
Baclofen ? Daily maintenance dose, sharing our experiences on the MWO forum

Are these coincidences or is history repeating itself? If it is the latter, maybe we can avoid the rigidity and dogmatic thinking that has plagued AA/NA and undercut its effectiveness.

[bleep]

Is baclofen the new AA?

I agree with your comparison, much as I hate the AA.

I will add that the majority of people who heal themselves don't stick around to post though, they quietly fade away and get on with their lives. Some have even reduced baclofen to near enough no maintenance dose, from what I recall.

Baclofen also requires no belief, which for me was a major stumbling block with AA. The pills will work regardless of your ideas about them.

I guess I'm trying to distance baclofen as far away from AA as I can!

I do see it replacing AA over time. There will always be people who subscribe to AA, but the majority, who I believe are there because they believe they have no other options, will fade over time.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Is baclofen the new AA?

hmmmm. I have had this same thought for a while. Thanks for bringing it to the forum! I think there are definitely correlations.
However, and this is a big WAIT A SECOND! There is no mention of Dr. OA in there, and none of this or us, would be here without him, his research and his book!

Any synopsis of the bac journey has to start, and should end with Dr. OA.

That said, my favorite correlation between AA and the bac ride/MWO is the one about one alcoholic talking to another. They have a mutual understanding that can't be found in any other way. And that is the only way the message can and should be carried. From someone like me,(or you) to someone like me (or you.) Anything else is just hoo-ey, imho.

Nothing like a person who has never gotten drunk against their will and sense of self-preservation trying to tell me what to do to overcome the disease. yeah. That rubs me so wrong I could start swearing.
koko, peeps!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Is baclofen the new AA?

oops! don't you just hate it when people don't read thoroughly???

:new: (not. sorry!)

[bleep]

Is baclofen the new AA?

PbarE;1064683 wrote: ...
Each movement has a founder who, on the brink of ruin, came up with a radical idea that saved his life;

AA ? Bill Wilson (from New York)
Baclofen ? Oliver Ameisen (lived in New York)

...

Each movement has a basic text that serves as a guideline for the program:

AA ? The Big Book (originally entitled The Way)
Baclofen ? Heal Thyself (originally entitled The End of My Addiction)

Neva, you must have missed it - OA is mentioned twice in PbarE's post!

[Guest]

Is baclofen the new AA?

I didn't fit in with the group at AA, and have the same difficulty here. There is a big similarity!Or it could just be me?

[Longshot]

Is baclofen the new AA?

PbarE;1064683 wrote:
AA ? Bill Wilson (from New York)
Baclofen ? Oliver Ameisen (lived in New York)

I think comparing Dr Ameisen with a sexual predator who abused his movement for his own personal financial again is rather unfair.

[beatle]

Is baclofen the new AA?

In regard to AA

I enjoyed reading this, and it's very clever. All the comparisons are funny, but ridiculous. All the more humorous in their ridiculosity. (I hereby declare that a word:H)

I realize this was meant as spoof, but I worry about anyone reading this and taking it seriously. Not everyone is tuned in to exactly what bac is and may actually follow the "logic", especially given your introduction.

[b]PbarE;1064683 wrote: Is it possible that we are pioneers in a historic movement? I know most people who post here have a bias against AA. And while this is definitely a ?tongue-in-cheek? post, I can already see some similarities between the two movements.
And then your conclusion:

PbarE;1064683 wrote:
Are these coincidences or is history repeating itself? If it is the latter, maybe we can avoid the rigidity and dogmatic thinking that has plagued AA/NA and undercut its effectiveness.

Your conclusion implies that although these similarities are tongue in cheek, the bac "movement" (btw Bac is not a "movement" and never will be. It is a medication) might actually be history repeating itself (I don't believe you meant this) and, if so, the bac activists could benefit from looking at these similarities to avoid falling into the AA trap because of these similarities, when in reality there are no similarities whatsoever.

There is no rigidity nor dogma whatsoever in the so-called bac movement, and therfore no danger of it becoming like AA.

Am I being too anal?

I really just want to avoid possible misunderstandings. But maybe I underestimate the general intelligence (and capacity for humor) of newcomers to this site.

Please tell me if my anality is beyond reason, and I will delete this post.

I'd like to leave you with an excerpt, which I like, but doesn't directly refute PbarE's "logic".

This is an excerpt from a series of articles by David Gersten, M.D. (Google him if you want background/credentials):

"...Secondly, you need to understand that support systems, including Alcoholics Anonymous (AA), according to a great deal of research, do not have better than a 5 percent cure rate ... But alcoholism is a physical disease. You cannot cure diabetes or cancer through support groups or psychotherapy, nor can you cure alcoholism through such support. I also don't buy into the nearly universal belief that alcoholism is an incurable disease. Alcoholism is a disorder of severely disturbed biochemistry. There is metabolic chaos from head to toe. "

[Lo0p]

Is baclofen the new AA?

+1 X 100 to what Beatle just said (no editing damn you :H). I really hope it was all tongue in cheek, if so then it was damn funny. :H

And one more thing. I say phooey to this:

Each movement has a protocol that must be followed in order to have a successful completion:

AA – The 12 Steps
Baclofen – Dr. L’s titration schedule (????)

IMHO it causes way too many SE's and could also cause people to fail.

[beatle]

Is baclofen the new AA?

Just want to make it clear that I appreciate and value highly PbarE's wicked wit and flair for irony -- and we all crave that around here -- I did not mean to denigrate his brilliant and hilarious post.

You understand, right?

[PbarE]

Is baclofen the new AA?

This was definitely a spoof, and I am glad the majority of you took it that way. I just wanted to create a little lively debate between naps. (I am up to 180 mgs per day and I am nodding off all over the place). I was going to personally retort to a few comments, but I really don’t have the energy or alertness.

However, on a serious note, there were a couple of passages in Dr. A’s book, which are repeated on his web site, that really touched my soul. When asked about his attitude towards AA, the good doctor said, “Profound gratitude and admiration…. Without AA I might not have survived until I found an effective medication in baclofen.”

He also said, “…treating addiction with baclofen does not spell the end of rehab, (and) twelve-step programs like AA and NA... To the contrary, it will make all these programs more effective.”

I think he is absolutely right. And in a perfect world, the 12 step community would embrace baclofen as the missing piece it needs to effect full recovery. However, that is not going to happen unless some “baclofytes” are willing to step outside their comfort zone.

That is why I have made the decision that once I hit the switch and reach a state of indifference, I am going to go into the local rooms of AA and NA and talk about the medical miracle that saved my ass.

We all know what is likely to happen. I will get cussed out, cut-off, and accused of not “really being sober”. I will be told that baclofen is an “outside issue” and that the group “does not engage in controversy.”

So why would I be willing to become an outcast and a pariah?

First of all, there are people in those meetings who need to hear about baclofen. Granted, I will be scorned, shamed and snubbed by 90% of them, but there will always be a handful of folks who are beaten down and desperate. They need people like us to bring them some hope.

Isn’t that exactly what Dr. A did for us? I don’t know about ya’ll, but I was ready to eat a bullet when I stumbled across this answer. I was hopeless. His book changed all that.

I cannot even imagine the amount of courage it took for Dr. A to publish his initial case study and disclose his alcoholism to his peers. He really put himself out there for folks like us. If he was willing to risk it all, the least I can do is tell my fellow sufferers about his findings.

This is an entirely personal decision, and what is right for me is not necessarily right for you. I respect everyone’s right to choose their own path.

I am starting to nod off again, so I better climb down off this soapbox before I fall of it.

[beatle]

Is baclofen the new AA?

Right on (what you said).

[Lo0p]

Is baclofen the new AA?

PbarE;1065129 wrote: This was definitely a spoof

Well then...in that case...

[ignominious]

Is baclofen the new AA?

In answer to Beatle's earlier query:

Yes. Entirely, and largely why you compliment the mosaic of bac characters here.

[bleep]

Is baclofen the new AA?

Hi PbarE,

I've decided to do the same thing. I'm just giving it a bit of time between the switch and my first share so I can talk about it with a bit of confidence. I'll let you know how it goes.