Is baclofen the new AA?

[redhead77]

Is baclofen the new AA?

UKB,

Thanks as always for responding. But I have a very personal and public apology to make to you. I thought you were being overly dramatic regarding your side effects and I judged you for other things as well. I have to tell you whole heartedly, I was WRONG. I have experienced horrendous side effects too. I should have never judged you.

[bleep]

Is baclofen the new AA?

I too am sorry if the way in which we post has deterred others from posting. That was certainly never my intention. I don't doubt missy for a second, and will be going back over some recent threads to see if I can spot any glaring culprits, and will amend them. I know I read back over ALL the old threads, so at least this way we can avoid new members feeling that way. I would suggest others do the same, although from here I can't think of any obvious errors.

Missy, it's not "smirking at others" who choose not to follow this path. It is more a feeling of desperation that this path seems to be scorned. I have tried posting on two other websites concerning baclofen, in both cases my posts were pulled, and not even allowed to be discussed. They were pulled off entirely, not even locked, and they weren't hardcore. I had deliberately kept them low key in an effort not to sound evangelical.

If a post isn't locked, it is ignored by all and sundry, it is extremely frustrating and I cannot understand their reluctance to even discuss a potential cure. I would post in the general forum, but I have seen others efforts go largely ignored. The poster I am thinking of also keeps his posts low-key, in an effort, I am sure, to fly under the radar, but he is largely ignored. This, and my results on other forums, have dissuaded me from trying, so I limit my activities to here, where I try and encourage newcomers.

I realise I am perhaps guilty with regards to cliquey behavior, but had no idea as to the power of it to discourage other posters from joining in.

I think the "old bird" refers more to people that have been here a while, although I missed the original post so can't be sure.

Thank you for your honest input.

[bleep]

Is baclofen the new AA?

My first thoughts as I go over the old posts are that people are on the whole very welcoming to newcomers.

Also, despite my activity here, I have never been a forum person as such, keeping posts to a bear minimum even on subjects I am very interested in. There is NOTHING, no drama, no cliques, absolutely nothing, that would have prevented me from posting on this website after reading up about baclofen.

Also, reading through this thread, it is quite clear to me that Otter was being funny when he mentioned tarring and feathering people.

Still, I'm continuing to go back through old threads, and will see what I find.

[redhead77]

Is baclofen the new AA?

Bleep,
Don't exhaust yourself on it. I don't see a reason to search through everything. She was making a generalization about everything.

[bleep]

Is baclofen the new AA?

Fair point, I think you are right red.

[PbarE]

Is baclofen the new AA?

Otter;1066175 wrote: The founder of AA, Bob Wilson, later in life, realized that AA did not work and became involved in the study of Vitamin B therapy.

I am assuming you mean Bill Wilson. The other founder was Dr. Bob Smith.
That is a very strong claim, my friend. Can you provide me with a source so I can check it out?

I know about Bill W. and Vitamin B. Hell, he even tried LSD as a possible method of triggering a spiritual experience.

But I have never heard that he "realized that AA did not work." Please provide credible evidence on this claim

[missyabby1]

Is baclofen the new AA?

Mosquitos and old birds

I guess this is the post that really got me angry and hurt.

This quote is from one member to another on the meds site.

"you should put that over on the general discussion part of the forum. That place is like a bell jar full of mosquitos looking for lunch"

On the same post:

"you should do some kind of missionary work over there (GD) , maybe you can reach at least one or two of those confused old birds.......they are , did anyone else notice, mostly female"

I know I should have jumped in straight away to challenge this but was truly waiting for someone else on the meds site to voice some sort of distaste at these comments.

It didn't happen. You may think that I am being oversensitive but I will not defend myself when, as I have posted here before, I am calling it as I see it.

People who post on that site, would no doubt be pretty upset to see themselves depicted as such. Me included.

For the most part I enjoy the kind and caring posts I see here and do not need to be persuaded that wanting to "spread the word" it is out of kindness and concern for others. (Funnily, just like AA)

I am now feeling that you see me as humourless...........the threat of being tarred and feathered would be absolutely hilarious in another context..........I can take a joke as well as anybody.....so lets not go down that path.

I don't know where the comment came from that I am posting because "others want to hear it" came from but believe me my posts come from me and me alone.

I take Campral and am having success with it, not entirely alcohol free, but from drinking heavily on a daily basis to having the occasional slip maybe once a week, I am happy to persist with it with other tools in place. This is my considered and researched choice at the moment.

I may have come on too strong at first but I;m afraid the post about mosquitos and old birds really had my feathers flying (pun intended............see I do have a sense of humour!)

[Lo0p]

Is baclofen the new AA?



Wow!! From delusions of persecution to delusions of grandiosity...this place has it all! This thread is nothing though, get a load of this guy: Some severely deranged guy on MWO with a megalomaniacal complex

Eff' the tarring and feathering let's burn some people at the stake!!

And please...pleeeeease lease: let's start with meeee! nfire:

Before anybody gets their anties: in a bunch, I didn't actually read any of the last page or so here, so this post is intended more as respite than judgement.

[Guest]

Is baclofen the new AA?

redhead77;1066259 wrote: UKB,

Thanks as always for responding. But I have a very personal and public apology to make to you. I thought you were being overly dramatic regarding your side effects and I judged you for other things as well. I have to tell you whole heartedly, I was WRONG. I have experienced horrendous side effects too. I should have never judged you.

Apology accepted and sorry to hear you are going through the same. I found it terribly distressing. It can be easy to jump to conclusions and I know I can be stroppy and subborn.:l

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Is baclofen the new AA?

Alright. for better or worse, and I tend to think it might not be such a good idea, I'll weigh in.
The clique-y drama queen is here. hmmm. Now where to start?
The clique thing. I think it's fair to say that there are a number of us who have developed relationships outside of MWO. Those relationships have been forged in fire and I won't apologize or make excuses for them. I've been logging on here daily for about 10 months. I dare say that in 10 months you will have built your own relationships, if you're lucky and work hard at it.
It takes HARD WORK and a lot of time. I pm people everyday. EVERY single day. And not the ones that I'm 'friends' with. I am very grateful that there are people who respond to my posts, and those tend to be the ones that know me best. Everyone is welcome to offer an opinion anywhere they want. period.
I felt very left out and put out for months when I got on here. One of the first relationships I developed outside of MWO with a MWOer was with a woman who inspired my journey. (phoenixrising) I thought she was in the loop, so to speak. She told me a while ago that she never really felt as though she fit in here. I made it my mission to fit in, to find friends, to make new friends.
I attempt to say hi and welcome every new face. I attempt to offer suggestions based on my own experience or my not inconsiderable amount of time reading and researching bac.

I will not now, never ever, make apologies for my 'drama' or my friendships. They have saved me time and time again.

If you're feeling left out, reach out. If you pm me, I'll write you back. If you email me, I'll write you back. If you call me, I'll answer. That's how I roll. (I don't, however, write letters long hand. My handwriting is atrocious. But if you want my address I'll give it to you and you can google-earth it and see where I live. Which is very cool. And I'd love to see where you live.)

Missy, I like you. I like the fact that you had the considerable chutzpah to voice your anger. And you did so very well. I am very, very happy that you've found some relief from the beast with Campral. I'd like to be friends.
What I'm about to add may piss you off, again. I researched Campral. The research isn't good. I would NEVER want to discourage anyone from anything that might help them. From Jesus to AA to voodooism to CBT to dangerous combinations or choices concerning meds/supps.
That stuff didn't work for me. I try to keep my very strong opinions about those and other things on my own thread. It's one of the great things about having one's own thread/forum.
There is a forum for people who believe in religions. I would NEVER weigh in there. There is a forum for men. Ditto. There is a forum for Tigger lovers, and that one is one I love and dabble in. Created by bac-boy but with no agenda other than making friends in far-flung places.

missyabby1;1066273 wrote:
"you should put that over on the general discussion part of the forum. That place is like a bell jar full of mosquitos looking for lunch"
On the same post:
"you should do some kind of missionary work over there (GD) , maybe you can reach at least one or two of those confused old birds.......they are , did anyone else notice, mostly female"

What is VERY funny about this is that I pm'd the person who wrote it this morning before I read your comments. He is very, very funny. I love his humor and miss it. I wondered why he hasn't been posting. :H
He posted those comments on my thread. If you'd been around for as long as he and I have (we started the bac journey about the same time) you would know that it's based on our experiences dabbling in the other forums. And is relatively accurate, if a bit disparaging. Take a look. It's true. />The bell jar reference? freakin' hysterical on a couple of levels. Google it. It's funny, at least to me.
One of the many truisms that I found in AA is that one should take away what they need and leave the rest behind in the rooms. Sometimes what I need is to be angry, or dramatic, or act out, or be a bitch, or swear, or be moved to tears/laughter/joy. No better place to do that than here. It's safe, it's anonymous for most, but not me! There are many, many here who can relate.
(ftr, I did and still do read almost all of the new posts here and elsewhere. I have grown to respect and admire many, many people. Like Mario. Who doesn't even know I exist. But I read everything he writes. Which is A LOT.)
Best to you and to us all. Thank goodness there are so many options for combatting the beast/demon/disease/spiritual malady () that this human journey encompasses.
It hurts my feelings, ftr, when people say mean things about me or others with whom I feel a bond. It also makes me angry.
I'd like to be friends.
:h
Karen/Ne

[Otter]

Is baclofen the new AA?

The Best Kept Secret

PbarE;1066271 wrote: I am assuming you mean Bill Wilson. The other founder was Dr. Bob Smith.
That is a very strong claim, my friend. Can you provide me with a source so I can check it out?

I know about Bill W. and Vitamin B. Hell, he even tried LSD as a possible method of triggering a spiritual experience.

But I have never heard that he "realized that AA did not work." Please provide credible evidence on this claim

Ok,

Here we go:

"It is not widely known that before his death, Wilson was actively investigating the biochemical basis of alcoholism. When he died, his wife, Lois, wrote about his hopes to the researcher-physicians who were to carry on his work: her letter to Bill's psychiatrist friends was published in a pamphlet, The vitamin B-3 Therapy: A 3rd Communication to AA's Physicians.

'Aldous Huxley, a great admirer of A.A., introduced Bill to two psychiatrists who were researching the biochemistry of alcoholism...Bill was convinced of the truth of their findings and realized he could again help his beloved alcoholics by telling them about the physical component of alcoholism.... Bill's great hope was that continued research would find a means whereby those thousands of alcoholics who want to stop drinking but are too ill to grasp the AA Program could be released from their bondage and enabled to join AA.'

[Many alcoholics are] too damaged by alcohol to think clearly. These drinkers are the ones Bill W. worried about. They are too ill to benefit from AA"

Joan Larson, Seven Weeks to Sobriety, pp. 13-15. "The Best Kept Secret"

Essentially, he realized that there was, indeed, a biochemical basis for alcoholism. Ok, so tar and feather me. He realized it did not work for a lot of alcoholics. I would say, the vast majority. And, LSD was used as a treatment for LSD. You can Wikipedia that one as I have already posted it somewhere.

Luv, luv, luv, we want your luv.........................

[Otter]

Is baclofen the new AA?

Ukblonde;1066334 wrote: Apology accepted and sorry to hear you are going through the same. I found it terribly distressing. It can be easy to jump to conclusions and I know I can be stroppy and subborn.:l

I apologize too. I was trying to be funny. In fact, I apologize to everyone who has taken offence at anything I have ever posted if in any way it has been taken as being even the slightest bit hurtful, insulting, annoying, rude, stupid, insensitive........sarcastic, facetious, fatuous, arrogant, odious, otiose, obnoxious....anyone got a Funk and Wagnals?

[Lo0p]

Is baclofen the new AA?

There's also this:

The following quote is from a speech give by By Bill W. (Co-founder of AA) " ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS IN IT?S THIRD DECADE" . Presented to the New York City Medical Society on Alcoholism April 28, 1958:

Bill Wilson wrote: We also realize that the discoveries of the psychiatrists and the biochemists have vast implications for us alcoholics. Indeed, these discoveries are today far more than implications. Your President and other pioneers in and outside your Society have been achieving notable results for a long time, many of their patients having made good recoveries without any A.A. at all. It should here be noted that some of the recovery methods employed outside A.A. are quite in contradiction to AA principles and practice. Nevertheless, we of AA ought to applaud the fact that certain of these efforts are meeting with increasing success. We know, too, that psychiatry can often release the big neurotic overhang from which many of us suffer after A.A. has sobered us. We know that psychiatrists have sent us innumerable alcoholics who would have never otherwise approached AA, and many clinics have done likewise. We clearly see that by pooling our resources we can do together what could never be accomplished in separation; or in short-sighted criticism and in competition. Therefore I would like to make a pledge to the whole medical fraternity that AA will always stand ready to cooperate, that A.A. will never trespass upon medicine, that our members who feel the call will increasingly help in those great enterprises of education, rehabilitation and research which are now going forward with such promise. So menacing is the growing spectacle of alcoholism that nothing short of the total resources of society can hope to vanquish or much lessen the strength of our very dangerous adversary, John Barleycorn. The subtlety and power of the alcoholic?s malady is revealed on every page of mankind?s history - and never so starkly and so destructive as in this century. When our combined understanding and knowledge have been fully massed and applied, we of AA know that we shall find our friends of medicine in the very front rank - just where so many of you are already standing today. When such an array of benign and cooperative action is in full readiness, it can, and will surely be, a great tomorrow for that vast host of men who suffer from alcoholism, and from all its dark and baleful consequences.

[gratitude]

Is baclofen the new AA?

I've read that quote from bill wilson before. awesome. he was open to other methods. I've also researched his life. true about the LSD, etc. extremely cool. there was a time when it was used for psychotherapy also.
not sure why anyone would want to demonize him. or turn him into the messiah. he was a drunk. just like me. instead of putting him down I think I would ask myself what have I done to help another person with this disease. have I reached out or just criticized.
ne, you are right on,sister. you've done the work and you reap the rewards. just like anything in life- you get out of it what you put into it. I realized that through AA. I used to complain about it a lot. then I realized i wasn't bringing anything to the table. the rooms have idiots, intellectuals,druggies, jocks,etc. just like high school. or MWO. I don't think it's MWO vs. AA. false dichotomy anyone. just saying.

[bleep]

Is baclofen the new AA?

Thanks for that quote Lo0p, interesting stuff.