scared to start

[redhead77]

scared to start

Getting Serious,

I'm sorry for contributing to a thread hijack. You clearly are confused and in trouble and need guidance. I'm hoping you're getting some idea of what you want to do. I would vote bac. What I was trying to explain earlier, is that in the worst case scenario, we would all probably come out okay. I really mean worst case.

Low,

With all due respect, this drug has never been studied in humans at these kind of doses. I'm glad you find it amusing that we are trying to foresee problems and discuss them. I agree, we have hijacked GS's thread. This is definately bad form. I am not paranoid about this drug and I believe it will cure me. That doesn't make it absurd to be aware of possible issues. In fact it's smart.

One greatly minimizes any risk, albeit small, by developing a safety plan. A plan consisting of people understanding what you doing, a stash of drugs, whatever you individually need.

I'm so sorry again Getting Serious for disussing these things on your thread. I actually think you should jump in the game with us.

[_serenity_]

scared to start

Getting serious,

I hope that you go ahead and go the Bac route. The side effects from bac can be uncomfortable, but they can be ridden out. I never had a side effect that could compare to the side effects that alcohol gave me. When I was drinking heavily, I vomited constantly, woke up shaking and sweating, and I had the worst psychological effects imaginable. I was truly suicidal. Bac made me somewhat uncomfortable, but it wasn't that bad for me. And after two months, my alcoholism just up and disappeared. I never tried to cut back--that happened naturally--and then one day I was done. It's been three weeks now, and my sobriety is effortless and normal. Please don't let the above posts scare you out of taking bac. Just make sure you have enough saved up so that you never run out. We'll be there for you! :l :h

[GettingSerious]

scared to start

List of Reasons Not to Call Dr. L/Start Baclofen

Hey guys! (if anyone's still reading) I hadn't had the opportunity to post these past two weeks just due to the general hectic-ness of life. No, actually, that's a lie, and I should be honest. I put it out of my head for the past two weeks because I didn't want to deal with it. Anyway, today, I was sitting at home looking up famous people who went to rehab (Kirstin Dunst? Eva Mendes? REALLY?) and googling "what to do with my spare time instead of drinking" until I realized how stupid and avoidant I was being.

Anyway, I got a very kind PM with Dr. L's contact information since I was last here (thanks!), so I'm one step closer. Of course, the half bottle of Beaujolais on my counter is in full panic mode now and is reminding me of all the reasons that starting down this path is a bad idea.

So, in the interest of just getting all of my thoughts down into one place, I am creating a

LIST OF REASONS NOT TO CALL DR. L/START BACLOFEN:

1) Dr. L might be scary: He won't be scary. You know that. Everyone here said he's nice. Plus, you're an adult. Don't be stupid.

2) Keeping it a secret from The Insurance Company: you've got money, you're selling your soul for it, may as well spend it. Don't go through insurance. Go to a pharmacy you've never been to. Plus, if you drink long enough, The Insurance Company will know from the pattern of your health problems, anyway.

3) electronic medical records: but what if Dr. L is forced to turn over my records because the country is adopting one big electronic medical records database in a slow-but-sure decline into Big Brotherdom? The Insurance Company will surely find out then, as will every doctor you go to for the rest of your life. Try getting taken seriously by a doctor (or getting life insurance, or private health insurance) with the A word in your file after that. Sigh. No answer for that one.

4) I'm not really a drunk : You drink 5.5 days out of six, you are posting on a website devoted to alcoholism, and you feel like alcohol controls your life. Just because no one's ever told you you're a drunk and you've never really stopped trying to drink doesn't mean that you're not a drunk. You know if you tried to stop that you couldn't (or wouldn't) and that if everyone knew how much you drank they'd be horrified. If you were bleeding out your eyeball, you wouldn't wait until it also hurt to go to the doctor, would you? You've got all the warning signs you need.

5) side effects :

a. Your job requires a lot of mental acuity, focus, and a fair amount of public speaking. There's also no HR person to whine to, you have little to no control over your schedule, and you're required to work long hours and actually produce content as opposed to just sitting at a computer. You really can't be in la-la land because of some drug. Oh and PS - your boss is taking advantage of you, you hate your job anyway, and the public has about as much affection for your general profession as it does for uterine cancer. Your job sucks. Treat it like the second class citizen it deserves to be.

b. You're a baby with zero discomfort threshold. No risk no reward, no pain no gain, etc. etc. Remember what it was like to be twenty and to have only one glass of wine with dinner. Might be worth it to have that back. Ditto self-esteem, self-respect, etc.

6) Withdrawal: Yeah, that is a scary one. You're just going to have to get a lockbox and a stash and make sure you always put your meds in your carry on. You will also have to pray that Dr. L does not lose his license and/or that his insurance carrier doesn't find out what he's doing. r />
7) Being dependent on a drug for the rest of my life : You must be joking. Tell me you don't see the irony.

8) High dose use is off label: You've already eaten, drank, popped, and smoked so many chemicals what difference does one little prescription make? Remember Super Size Me? Plus, you think the FDA is a bunch of liars, thieves, and incompetents anyway, why quibble over whether it would consider high dose Baclofen "safe."

9) What if it doesn't work/I can't tolerate it?: That would be depressing as hell, if not soul crushing. But what if it DOES work?

10) What if it works?: Yes, that's scary too.

a. Will I have to stop drinking entirely? I don't know. That doesn't sound like a very attractive option. But if it means you've stopped drinking because you've become entirely indifferent to alcohol, that's a WAY more attractive option than drinking every day and feeling bad about it.

b. Will I be boring if I stop drinking? No, because you'll actually be able to retain some information from that book you've been reading drunk for the last hour instead of forgetting everything you read as soon as you put it down. You'll also probably do more interesting stuff with your time and you'll remember people's names when you're introduced to them at parties. You'll lose weight, looks less puffy, and your skin will improve. You can also get that tooth whitening, so you'll look better all around. And if you're good looking no one cares if you're boring.

c. Will people still like me if I don't drink? What does it matter, you don't like anyone anyway.

ARRRGHHH, there really is no reason NOT to do this, is there.

[bleep]

scared to start

Getting Serious, I am delighted and relieved you are back with us, as I held myself responsible for the disaster earlier in your thread!

Your list is compelling, I can't see any reasons you may have omitted. There are a couple of points that need clarification though...
5) SE's - these can be reduced, although in my experience not eliminated, through a careful dosage schedule, and;
6) There is always the option of an online purchase, should Dr. L become unavailable, for any reason.

Also, I have noticed that that baclofen simply reduces the need to drink, it doesn't remove the fun aspects of your personality, despite what my gloomy posts in your thread may have led you to believe. This was a worry to me, as I have always been an extroverted drunk, who made friends very easily after a drink or two. Luckily, this has remained.

Pleased you are back, good luck! Let us know how it goes, and this time I will try keep my advice to helpful posts only!

[redhead77]

scared to start

GS, I think I'm going to love you! You are charming and witty as hell. Sorry, can you tell I went up on my dose today?

I too am sorry I was negative on your thread. I am glad you are bac!

Regarding Dr L, don't worry, he doesn't bill your insurance for alcoholism. He doesn't trust the insurance companies or electronic medical records either. When I was there, he took down my info on a piece of notebook paper and filed it. What???? I thought, there is no way this guy is going to remember me. He must have some sort of system, because he called to remind ME we hadn't spoken in a while. He was like "Redhead, this is Dr L, I need to see what's going on in your life". Hey, whatever works I guess. I'm super scared of this stuff becoming part of my permanent record and he goes a long way to protect us from that.

Good luck on this GS. All the stuff you posted reminds me of all the thoughts I had before doing this. I am super glad I have, though.

Redhead

[Ne/Neva Eva]

scared to start

GettingSerious;1081442 wrote:
c. Will people still like me if I don't drink? What does it matter, you don't like anyone anyway.
I like you already and I think I'll like you even more when you start bac. That is for sure going to be fun! really.
Your post on Bill G's thread? Had me under my breath for a couple of hours. Any woman who stuffs smirnoff (etc...) in her pants is a woman I 'get.'

GettingSerious;1081442 wrote: ARRRGHHH, there really is no reason NOT to do this, is there.

No, there is not. Call him. He'll like you, too.

:H
Ne

[TracyA]

scared to start

GS, glad you are bac.

Very happy to hear you are going to give it a whirl! If you don't like it, you can always go back off it.

You are funny too. I loved this line and wished I'd had it at my last job:

Oh and PS - your boss is taking advantage of you, you hate your job anyway, and the public has about as much affection for your general profession as it does for uterine cancer. Your job sucks.

Welcome back.

[GettingSerious]

scared to start

Huh. So. still haven't made the big Dr. L move, i know, my indecision is getting boring already. Hear me out.

I saw my therapist last week and told her I was an "alcoholic." (I told her that I prefer the more descriptive term "drunk." She has yet to use either.) That was kind of a big step. She was the first person that I told other than my SO. Only after we had repeated conversations about her not putting that "label" in my records did I feel safe to tell her.

But honestly, I was underwhelmed by the response. I mean, I wasn't expecting shock and awe, but you know. Is it me, or might there be a slight bias against people thinking that you're an alcoholic when "all" you drink is wine? She asked me whether I drink liquor (no, only very occasionally - in airports, see previous post) then told me what a "wonderful" drug wine could be because of its many beneficial effects and what she was more concerned about was my "perception" of my drinking.

Ok, so, have I been wrong all along? Is my problem that I THINK I'm a drunk? Is it cool to knock back a bottle of vino each night, as long as you don't THINK you're a drunk? I always thought it was the other way around. I mean, I've watched Intervention. I always thought it was more concerning when you're denying you have a problem but (oddly enough) there's a meth pipe hanging out of your mouth. Denial, right? Have i just been torturing myself unecessarily? Somehow, I think not, but. . . I guess I was surprised. Later when we were talking she mentioned something about when people have "real serious" alcohol issues. ???

Anyway, I went back and tonight she said I have OCD. Not like, switching the stove on, off, on, off, on, off, on, off-type OCD, but like, "I'm so hateful and awful and I'm gonna think about it all the time" OCD (i.e., catholic guilt). I thought she had said I had depression, but apparently I misunderstood. OCD, but I think about depressing stuff. (My interpretation of what she said). Distinction without a difference in my mind, but then I didn't go to med school.

Bleh, any response appreciated. Topics: OCD, therapists, Intervention, "wine bias," etc.

[GettingSerious]

scared to start

oh ps, stupid mechanics question. If i like someone's post and want to comment on it, but it's like the 3rd post in a series of 60, is there any way to make my response to their post come up right after what they posted? Or do I just have to post at the very end and hope that poster #3 sees it? On second thought, maybe that's a good device to keep posts "on track," which seems to be very important here. The word "hijacking" gets thrown around a lot, which seems to be bad.

[redhead77]

scared to start

Hi GS,

Maybe quote the original post that you want to comment on. It will still go down to the bottom of the thread, but then the poster will see it (hopefully). I'm not sure what to say about your therapist. I would think if you feel you have a drinking problem, you probably do.

I think that's what most therapists would say, actually. I too only drink wine. My therapist never really tried to talk me out of thinking I drink too much. Maybe the few times I've blacked out have something to do with it. Maybe, you seem so functional, she has a hard time thinking of you as a problem drinker. I'm searching here.........

I think you should call him GS. :l

[bleep]

scared to start

In a test done somewhere by people who test such things, they filmed therapists and patients, and it was discovered in a large percentage of cases that the therapist would change the topic fairly quickly if the patient raised issues concerning alcoholism. They decided that this was because alcoholism is so difficult to treat (or rather, was), that most therapists prefer to steer clear of it.

I'll see if I can dig up a link, but I doubt I can find it, it was a while ago that I read about it. Serious, to me it sounds like your therapist falls firmly into that camp, so take what they say with a pinch of salt. As red says, if you think you have a problem, then you do.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

scared to start

Dear Getting Serious,
Fire the therapist.

If you're a drunk, you're a drunk.

But fire the *expletive, *expletive, *worse expletive therapist.

Get some help from someone who is not disrespectful and dismissive. (OCD? Are you kidding me? "You hate yourself so much... Are you KIDDING me?)

Take bac or don't take bac. Embrace the label or don't. Call Dr. L or don't. I don't care. But the shrink? hmmmm
Ne

[I STILL have to qualify/quantify it. As recently as my last appointment with my primary care physician in February. 6 months into my bac journey. She simply can't believe that I'm an alcoholic. And trust me there is NO ambiguity. But I don't look like a drunk. I don't act like a drunk in my real life. I have no comorbidity, no life issues, no outward signs that I'm a drunk. Really!]

[TracyA]

scared to start

If your therapist believes that bottle of wine a night is not a problem, is it possible that she has a drinking problem?

I guess unwanted thoughts could fit into the OCD category. I think the term is generally used to describe unwanted compulsive behavior though. I don't understand how she's using it regarding Catholic guilt kinds of stuff.

What is your therapist's background?

My sister has a masters in psychology, but I cannot see where her education has given her much insight into herself (or anybody else). She does say that only crazy people major in psychology. I think that's probably an overstatement. You probably come across as very smart and together. And you probably actually are. I'd be inclined to trust your gut instinct on this over what looks like stabs in the dark by a therapist trying to help.

If you respond to an individual post, it does actually thread to that post. But everyone would have to change their preferences to see the threads, and no one does (it's a hassle and doesn't work well with the MWO set up). Just quoting part of a post is usually sufficient though.

Good to see you back!

[redhead77]

scared to start

Ne/Neva Eva;1088432 wrote: Dear Getting Serious,
Fire the therapist.

I think that about sums it up.

[GettingSerious]

scared to start

Soooooo....

Issue#1: I did it!!!! Ordered the baclofen online. You know what was the trigger? I saw in Readhead77's post that it was going to take me three weeks to get a telephone appointment with the good doctor (if i was lucky). For whatever reason, i said f* that, i'm ordering it online. I think what spurred me was that I could no longer say to myself, every night as I'm driving home from work, "tonight is the night! I am going to call Chicago. Ok, what time is it in Chicago right now? 5:30? OK, just a little while longer....." Then mysteriously I wake up at four in the morning on the couch in only my bra with a couple of cheerios stuck to my face, sans baclofen.

Issue #2: I did not fire the head shrinker. I am seeing her Wednesday. I spent all weekend researching this obsessive compulsive thing. I got all the books i could find on the issue, skimmed them all, made notes, kept lists, tabbed relevant sections and even made one of those pro-and-con tables where you list things down each side of the paper and see which column is longer (obsessional? perhaaaaps)

Anyway, I do NOT, repeat NOT have OCD. This is as plain to me as the nose on my face. BUT, I think i might have misunderstood her. I think she may have said (or been referring to) OCPD. What is the difference, you ask? Well, in OCD you drive yourself crazy with bizarre obsessions and compulsions you realize are nuts. In OCPD, you drive everyone ELSE crazy with your rigid perfectionistic obsessions because you think you are completely fine and everyone else is just a bunch of slackers. Aka perfectionist, aka Type A, aka kind-of-a-bitch. Yes, this is recognized as a disorder on Axis II Subpart C whatever of the DSM IV. Characteristics of this disorder may include excessive listmaking, stubbornness and rigidity, keeping worn out things, "not seeing the forest for the trees," and being cheap. Ooooook.

Even so, I'm willing to consider it. Yeah, I'm type A, I'll admit it. Except now that means that i might have a personality disorder, which was initially depressing, but is now kind of funny. I have to admit, I kind of want to see where this one goes. So, if I miss work now, can I say it was because my personality is acting up, or what? Or what, I need a P day because my personality went off its meds and ran streaking across the road naked? Who knows, maybe it makes sense. Who isn't a little more Type B after going a couple of rounds with the ol box 'o wine? Anyway, I'm going to clear that up with her this week. I'm also going to pay more attention to her treatment of the drinking subject. Jury is certainly out.

My other consideration is this. I may, at some point, consider asking her to start prescribing me Baclofen. She's pretty anti mainstream medicine and Big Pharma, so I think if I can put some actual scientific articles in front of her I may have a shot of getting her to prescribe at least some to supplement what I'm getting offline. I guess what I'm saying is I won't write her off until she proves totally useless, or just plain stupid. But I might still go to her even if she's just plain stupid, as long as she gives me a Baclofen Rx. Sounds like a plan. Go team!