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**JackieClaire** · March 11, 2011, 02:08 PM

Meds Forum MWO

Lovely post,Tippers.:l
Thank you.

**bleep** · March 11, 2011, 02:16 PM

Meds Forum MWO

Good post Tip.

Message received and understood.

**one2many** · March 11, 2011, 02:17 PM

Meds Forum MWO

Bloody Good Post Tipps.

This forum is called MY Way Out not MEDS way out...

There is more ways than one to skin a cat....

Ridicule of members who do not take Bac has no place here.

**Otter** · March 11, 2011, 02:17 PM

Meds Forum MWO

Well, I agree and disagree.

But it is a bit like saying that there are some people who take antibiotics to treat a bacterial infection and there are those who do other things such as going to meetings and we should respect them both equally.

What sets Baclofen apart is, like it or not, it is considered by many to be a scientific cure for alcoholism and a number of other related conditions. It is a chemical which replaces something missing in that part of the brain which governs a wide range of behaviour. It is unlike any other chemical.

I suppose what is annoying is for people to come along and put some other medication on a par with it or say that AA is in the same league. It is annoying because it misses the point and suggests that all the research one might have done into why Baclofen works is a waste of time. No doubt AA works for some people. So does just stopping for others. But that does not take away from the scientific breakthrough represented by Baclofen and that is why it is in a different league from all other treatments for alcoholism and addiction.

I have been very offended by comments I have received on other forums, not just here, when I have tried to suggest Baclofen as a treatment for alcoholism. Even on this forum there are some people who will continue to resist the idea that there can be a pharmaceutical cure for alcoholism.

Yes, this is a forum for all and if it had not been then Baclofen would not have been discovered by the thousands who have visited and benefited from it by taking Baclofen. But, there comes a point, and it will come soon, when Baclofen does become the mainstream treatment for alcoholism and then it will become very difficult to be taken seriously starting a thread like this.

Science moves on and it waits for no man.

So, it cuts both ways.

**anonymity** · March 11, 2011, 02:22 PM

Meds Forum MWO

Otter;1074574 wrote: Well, I agree and disagree.

But it is a bit like saying that there are some people who take antibiotics to treat a bacterial infection and there are those who do other things such as going to meetings and we should respect them both equally.

What sets Baclofen apart is, like it or not, it is considered by many to be a scientific cure for alcoholism and a number of other related conditions. It is a chemical which replaces something missing in that part of the brain which governs a wide range of behaviour. It is unlike any other chemical.

I suppose what is annoying is for people to come along and put some other medication on a par with it or say that AA is in the same league. It is annoying because it misses the point and suggests that all the research one might have done into why Baclofen works is a waste of time. No doubt AA works for some people. Do does just stopping for others.

I have been very offended by comments I have received on other forums, not just here, when I have tried to suggest Baclofen as a treatment for alcoholism. Even on this forum there are some people who will continue to resist the idea that there can be a pharmaceutical cure for alcoholism.

So, it goes both ways.

I totally agree with Otter

**TracyA** · March 11, 2011, 02:43 PM

Meds Forum MWO

Well, Tip, I get not knocking the people who are in AA. The thing is that many people who are coming out of AA might as well be coming out of a concentration camp. I saw a lot of this in SMART too. They feel angry and betrayed and have failed so many times – and have been told what that means in AA terms (that they are constitutionally incapable of being honest; that they are “spiritually unfit.”) Whenever a new person came into SMART, we’d all sigh and sit back for the rant that we’d all heard before because the newcomer needed time to vent all that sadness and anger. People in that position have been abused, and it’s okay with me if they use space on the meds forum to share their experience with each other and debrief and defrag from the AA trauma.

I would not like to see the kind of “one-true-way-ism,” which is part and parcel of AA, become the norm for the meds forum either. It even makes me a little sad to see a sort of voluntary segregation between the topa folks, the bac folks, etc. But, when I think of what AA domination has really meant for the world of recovery, was a huge step backwards, and it has been destructive because it has been state-sanctioned, medically-sanctioned religiosity run amok. I think that there is nothing wrong with saying so. I think that sort of discussion is, as it should be, okay to talk about here.

I’ve also seen the other side of the coin (just this week) – traditional recovery folk popping in to the thread of someone who was struggling with SEs to offer advice about “we just have to work on ourselves, not look for excuses or magic bullets. . . “ Bravo to the participants in that thread for treating that person nicely and respect. I remember Sunny talking about getting kicked out of an AA forum for simply mentioning baclofen.

I agree that it’s NOT okay to ridicule a person because of participation in AA, just like it would NOT be okay to ridicule a person for their religious beliefs. Ridiculing the institution . . . I'm okay with that.

**Cassia** · March 11, 2011, 02:52 PM

Meds Forum MWO

Tips,

Thanks for starting this thread. I think you raise a lot of good points and I think ultimately we all need to be respectful of each others way out. Which is fine by me. Getting preached to on any level puts my back up.

Xx

**mario** · March 11, 2011, 02:54 PM

Meds Forum MWO

I am one of them people who has come out of AA, never did the steps but i immensely enjoyed going and would recommend it to anyone,I have never touched a med and i would recommend people to check out the posts here when talking about recovery,But what i dont get is the way a lot of people here especially med people seem to have a hatred for everything else other than there believes,just cant get my head around that one,We have enough of a struggle with alcohol without struggling with whose recovery group is best or worst. If it works for you great, hold onto it, if it doesn't then try another approach. Think of the recovery scene as a restaurant with a large menu - choose what suits and respect other people's choice.but i would never ever criticize someone that goes there or anywhere else for that matter, This disease or whatever you want to call it is much to serious for that.

**redhead77** · March 11, 2011, 03:19 PM

Meds Forum MWO

Statistics are statistics. AA works for 5% of alcoholics trying to recover. Period. I think that says a lot. The question is why? I think a lot of people are turned off by the find the greater God and if you give yourself, you'll fix this problem. That's ridiculous. I actually know my God, and I can't fix it.

I also refuse to devalue another's way of recovery. I stay off the general threads for that reason. What works, works. If it doesn't work, then one should find another way.

I hear what you're saying Tip. Thanks for that, but, many of us are on the meds forum for a reason. No matter what, no one should be criticized or judged if they are finding their way without pharmaceuticals. Actually, I wish I were that person.

**Otter** · March 11, 2011, 05:14 PM

Meds Forum MWO

Yes, of course, what ever works for you!

I have not come across anyone on the meds forum who has any hatred for anything which helps with alcoholism. What is invariably the case, though, is that they are people who have been through AA and failed and have consequently been exposed to the hatred of society for people who have failed to take the "cure" that AA supposedly offers.

Probably, what you are picking up on is the frustration of people who have been cast as moral weaklings and degenerates who just want to carry on drinking, evidenced by the fact that they have failed at AA when others have succeeded. My mother in law constantly trots out the story of some distant cousin who just stopped drinking, just like that. If he can do it then so can my wife.

I have been ridiculed by her for talking about Baclofen. She thinks I am a fool for thinking there is a medical treatment for alcoholism. She knows best!!! It is all an exercise of the will and those who cannot cure themselves with AA are weak.

**mario** · March 11, 2011, 05:34 PM

Meds Forum MWO

Not everyone wants or needs to take another drug to manage their addiction.

**mario** · March 11, 2011, 05:40 PM

Meds Forum MWO

Otter;874291 wrote: You should all go to the Baclofen Threads. Far more uplifting when you realize that there is a potential cure to this illness. Alcohol is a poison which damages the brain. Baclofen stops craving so it is an antidote. Try it, it works. Stop wallowing in this "hitting rock bottom" nonsense and get better.

This what you posted Otter on a sticky and to me it shows the contemp you have for people who dont go your way, ps I hit rock bottom and i am still getting better.

**Otter** · March 11, 2011, 05:41 PM

Meds Forum MWO

Hello, I hope everyone here is having a lovely day. It is snowing here.

**mario** · March 11, 2011, 05:46 PM

Meds Forum MWO

Grow up

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