Meds Forum MWO

[Murphyx]

Meds Forum MWO

If I have a headache I don't try to to ride the pain out. I don't take the headache one day at a time, desperately wanting it to stop and using all the tools I've learned to cope with it. I take a couple of aspirin and the pain goes away. Yes, the next time I get a headache I'll take aspirin again, so in that sense I'm reliant on aspirin for the rest of my life. So what? I don't have the pain and that's what's important.

startingover;1074913 wrote: But people should be allowed to make up their own mind without being put off by people disregarding their opinions or being made to feel less worthy of their choice.

Personally I didnt go either route, however they both interest me but I still wouldnt want to be bamboozled by someone dictating to me which method I should choose

The only reason I can think of why someone would prefer the AA route is if they wanted to punish themselves for their addiction. They want to be reminded every day about how evil and worthless they are for giving in to alcoholism. There's no gain without pain right? Bollocks!

Yes, AA is the choice of some people, but if they are presented with the alternative then AA becomes a rather silly choice.

[bleep]

Meds Forum MWO

startingover;1074931 wrote: ...

My point was really that on this forum, its a shame to see people being slagged off for their choices thats all.

My frustration, and I think part of Otters' as well, is that baclofen isn't really presented as a choice. It takes hard work to discover the cure, hidden away as it is. I don't want to belabour the point though, so I'll stop there.

I do agree that nobody should be criticized for their choice of path, but all the paths should be made clear, along with their respective cure rates.

[Guest]

Meds Forum MWO

I agree with Tip's feelings on this. I don't post very much in the meds section for many reasons including them and us attitudes here. Yes I take baclofen and doing very well on it thank you, but other people choose different routes for different reasons. This meds section is full of baclofen blogs. Hardly a mention of any other medication any more, and if they are brought up newbies are told to try the only one which works - baclofen. I'm not here to read life-stories. I'm here to get succinct information, and a little support if I need it - without having to blog about my every movement. I had a horrendous time with Baclofen it was awful, but I know I get more support from the General Section as well as friends in the real world than I would here. And so that is who I turned to when I found this section hostile and self-obsessed.

I actually became frightened to say anything here especially when I know that posters in this section actively prune threads to remove anything which could be seen as putting Baclofen in a negative light. When I was having a bad time I wanted to know about the bad times, the horrendous side effects. That would have helped me more than a load of blogs about how great it all is, how horny the guys felt, and how funny it was to forget things, or likening it to recreational drugs. I wanted to hear the nitty gritty, and without having to dig through pages and pages of random posts about someone's life.

A couple of weeks ago I really wanted to die because of how ill I was because of the Baclofen side effects. I made a post which hinted at this, and it was only those in the general section who picked me up empathised, sympathised and helped me through it.

I rarely read threads here anymore because of the attitudes.

No Baclofen isn't offered as an option in court cases because it hasn't been effectively trialled, proven or licenced yet. If a judge were to go offering it as an option he'd most likely be struck off, removed from the bar or whatever it is Judges get for making decisions based upon hearsay.

Until proper trials have been run proving the efficacity, dosing protocols etc it can never be an official option. That is how it is and we can't change it, only time and allowing for proper research can do this.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Meds Forum MWO

hmmm.
Tip,
Your original post struck me as a reaction to someone getting upset about something specific that was written in these threads. I would suggest that anyone with a specific issue should address that issue and reap the results of their thoughts. (If I'm wrong, the point remains the same.)

I am a defender too, though, so I understand your reasoning. If someone gets their feelings hurt or the conversation is undermined in some way, I find it very difficult not to address it. But I address it head on and have found a great deal of humility when I was wrong or miscommunicated.

I resent the lecture, frankly, about being nice. I'm nice. People on this forum are nice. (Resentment, in my case, does not make me an alcoholic. Nor do I have to drink because I carry some measure of it.)

The meds threads, like many of the others, are not one-size-fits-all.

No apologies from me, frankly.

I'm simply doing my best with what I've got. That's all I can do. I truly appreciate those that are doing the same...

I hope we all find a way out, any way out, for any duration. The beast is a killer. Literally.

:ls and :h people.
Karen
To know someone here or there with whom you can feel there is understanding in spite of distances or thoughts expressed--that can make life a garden. It also saved my life.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Meds Forum MWO

Is this just kerfuffle? (meaning it has little relevance or bearing on the topic at hand... in this case, medications to treat alcoholism and addiction. This is the only forum we have, after all.)

It feels like an important conversation to have, but I'm unsure.

[TracyA]

Meds Forum MWO

Otter;1074909 wrote:
I think there is a real risk that we here become so wrapped up in this forum that we forget about the real world where people who have wrecked their lives with alcoholism and are washed up on the rocks somewhere are being left to suffer and die while we debate and get upset over "etiquette" and whether some guy in some little village has written a book and has helped a few people get off booze.
I don't know, Otter. This forum sure looks like the real world to me, with people washing up on the rocks of MWO island.

It may be politically correct to be polite on these forums but this is life or death stuff to a lot of people and this mamby pamby approach to things is not getting very far in the public domain.

Otter, I think you are getting that your approach is going to go no where in the public domain. It's pretty rare that you are going convince anyone of anything if you are talking at them. Talking to them works much better.

Edited to add: I agree with much of what you say.

[missyabby1]

Meds Forum MWO

I think you may be preaching to the converted Otter. Of course it is frustrating to know that there is a medication out there which could assist people in their battle with alcoholism not being widely recognised. Unfortunately this is how it is at the moment.
Have you tried going to every AA meeting in your area to spread the word?

I have not come across people who have used Baclofen in order to accept other peoples opinions more gracefully before. You should up your dose. (that was nasty I know).

I truly hope your wife will recover and be well. Maybe this is causing the most angst?

That is not a condescending remark just an intuitive one.

Love to you both.:h

[TracyA]

Meds Forum MWO

Ukblonde;1074977 wrote: I had a horrendous time with Baclofen it was awful, but I know I get more support from the General Section as well as friends in the real world than I would here. And so that is who I turned to when I found this section hostile and self-obsessed.
I think that is a very valid point. I'm sorry you had a terrible time on Bac. Many of us do.

I actually became frightened to say anything here especially when I know that posters in this section actively prune threads to remove anything which could be seen as putting Baclofen in a negative light. When I was having a bad time I wanted to know about the bad times, the horrendous side effects.
Me too. Reading about the stuff Ne and Ig went through really helped me realize that I could get past the side effects. It's important to know that. I don't understand this whole attitude of sweeping the side effects under the rug. Side effects are THE problem with baclofen.

A couple of weeks ago I really wanted to die because of how ill I was because of the Baclofen side effects. I made a post which hinted at this, and it was only those in the general section who picked me up empathised, sympathised and helped me through it.

Sorry, UK.

No Baclofen isn't offered as an option in court cases because it hasn't been effectively trialled, proven or licenced yet.

Also, it is risky in the high doses we must take for it to be effective. The first time somebody has an accident while bac'd out or goes through withdrawal, the state is going to get sued. I doubt even a treatment center would take somebody up to the doses we take because the risks of something going wrong, while not very high (and certainly nothing as risky as abusing AL), are real, and they don't want that kind of liability.

[Guest]

Meds Forum MWO

Tracy

That is absolutely correct, but many here whine on and on about why Drs will not prescribe nor be it offered as an alternative to rehab. It would all then be on their professional heads should anything happen. You can see the headlines now, and also imagine the problems if it was prescribed willy nilly without proper, established guidelines.

[TracyA]

Meds Forum MWO

UK, I've always wanted to ask you, is that you in your avatar?

[Guest]

Meds Forum MWO

No it's Sylvia Plath.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Meds Forum MWO

You do know that she offed herself at age 30, right?
Also, that she was intimately self-reflective and insightful.
That she inspired a whole genre of writers and philosophers by exploring her innermost thoughts and feelings. She used this self-reflection and self-absorption to help others who were struggling silently with a killer disease.
And then, she took a medicine she knew exacerbated her suicidal depression because she only knew it by the generic name and not the brand name.
And she offed herself at age 30.
Pictures are worth a thousand words, ukblonde. I liked you immediately because I have an intimate relationship with Sylvia Plath. But there but for the grace of (and baclofen) go I...

just sayin
xo

[JackieClaire]

Meds Forum MWO

Well I wasn't going to come back to this thread, but I tell you I'm mightily fed up with the editing and deleting of posts here and in GD.

Yes correct spelling mistakes, correct dates and times but don't use edit to delete a mound of information. There is a preview button that can be used before hitting submit. I use it all the time.

I saw Otter's post last night, totally uncalled for, but of course it's OK now because it's all gone.

My last words because I'm going to watch the terrible,tragic news from Japan.

[TracyA]

Meds Forum MWO

Sorry, Jackie. We spent a good part of last night looking at the footage. It's heartbreaking.

[beatle]

Meds Forum MWO

A lot of people here have condensed and articulately expressed what I know and how I feel about AA (Otter's first post, Tracy's first post, RedHead, among others).

In this thread, and in most other discussions like this, there seems to be an accepted premise that it is either/or, one or the other, diametrically opposed, my way-your way.

But I don't think AA was intended to be that way, at all. (?) I recall that the AA founder said (in a speech -- Lo0p posted it, and many others have referred to it) that he envisioned a future when science would be solving the problems (physiologically) and this would go hand-in-hand with AA and its developed protocol. (A loose paraphrasing, at best.)

I cannot see there is a reason for AA insisting on the big book and protocol as the only way to deal with alcohol addiction, particularly in this day and age. Unfortunately, AA has a stranglehold, a hegemony on alcohol "treatment" and the minds and souls of those in charge of the "treatments" and those afflicted by the "treatments" ? so I don't see much prospect for AA to open its arms and minds to anything outside its dogma anytime in our lifetimes.

Many researchers and scientists have been declaring that alchol is not a disease of the soul, but of the body, and that it can be fixed. Joan Larson in "Seven Weeks to Sobriety" basically comes to the same conclusion as Dr. Olivier Ameisen. Just not the same method of balancing the brain. Her answer is supplements -- very specifically targeted supplements, and intensive amino acid therapy. To attack and kill the disease at a physiological level.

Dr. David Gertsen (also a supps/aminos guy) proposes this (yes, I am quoting him yet again... because I feel it is very pertinent)

"Secondly, you need to understand that support systems, including Alcoholics Anonymous (AA), according to a great deal of research, do not have better than a 5 percent cure rate. Mind you, I refer my alcoholic patients to AA. AA was never intended as a treatment modality. It is support and is profoundly helpful.

But alcoholism is a physical disease. You cannot cure diabetes or cancer through support groups or psychotherapy, nor can you cure alcoholism through such support. I also don't buy into the nearly universal belief that alcoholism is an incurable disease.