Side effects of AA

[Chi]

Side effects of AA

I don't have time to read this whole thread but from what I did read.... wow... just WOW. I didn't realize people felt so strongly about AA.

I'll read more after work tonight but wanted to put in my 2 cents on why I never went the AA route after going to a couple meetings (even though I felt at home with a bunch of people trying to get a grip on alcoholism and respect anyone who is bold enough to be honest about it).

It doesn't work for me because I am an atheist. I can't do religious based gigs. I only believe in the power of myself as the guiding force in my life. I realize that is a whole different topic, but rest assured it does keep some people away from AA.

See you all later.

[Guest]

Side effects of AA

Chi

I don't subscribe to religion either, however I interpretted 'God' and the religious part of AA quite differently. In order for any recovery or cure to work you do have to have belief in something. Whether that be a God, or that things will simply work out. I got sober last year reminding myself that things would work out as long as I stayed sober, that I could deal with anything as long as I stayed sober. This time using Baclofen there was something willing me to carry on taking it, and carry on living when I felt like giving up as a result of the terrible side effects. Many people here showed the same signs in that they believed it worked, and that it would be ok as long as they kept on taking it. They also looked to mentors, the ultimate being the Drs who discovered and pioneered this treatment in the first place. I know that Baclofen is very different in that it changes the brain, thus providing a definite cure whether or not you believe, but you still need some sort of hope in order to take and continue to take the medication - otherwise you'd just flush it down the loo. I've seen posts on various threads here where the poster has been struggling with Baclofen but keeps on saying they believe it works, "keep on taking the pills" that sort of thing.

Just my take on 'religion', if we didn't have some sort of belief system we wouldn't bother living. It's just that it doesn't fall into the traditional form of religion. I used to just ignore the God word in AA, and applied it to the belief system I do have.

[redhead77]

Side effects of AA

Right on UKB. I am really enjoying this thread again. Not that it matters but just sayin. It's again become interesting.

[PbarE]

Side effects of AA

Ukblonde;1080686 wrote: Chi

I don't subscribe to religion either, however I interpretted 'God' and the religious part of AA quite differently. In order for any recovery or cure to work you do have to have belief in something. Whether that be a God, or that things will simply work out. I got sober last year reminding myself that things would work out as long as I stayed sober, that I could deal with anything as long as I stayed sober. This time using Baclofen there was something willing me to carry on taking it, and carry on living when I felt like giving up as a result of the terrible side effects. Many people here showed the same signs in that they believed it worked, and that it would be ok as long as they kept on taking it. They also looked to mentors, the ultimate being the Drs who discovered and pioneered this treatment in the first place. I know that Baclofen is very different in that it changes the brain, thus providing a definite cure whether or not you believe, but you still need some sort of hope in order to take and continue to take the medication - otherwise you'd just flush it down the loo. I've seen posts on various threads here where the poster has been struggling with Baclofen but keeps on saying they believe it works, "keep on taking the pills" that sort of thing.

Just my take on 'religion', if we didn't have some sort of belief system we wouldn't bother living. It's just that it doesn't fall into the traditional form of religion. I used to just ignore the God word in AA, and applied it to the belief system I do have.

I fucking cried when I read this - IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

It goes along with what I wanted to say to Chi. Early on in AA, I had a sponsor that was an aetheist. He merely made the power of the group and the principles of honesty, humility, self-examination and courage his higher power. He also made science his higher power. I have seen dozens of aethists get clean and sober, both in AA and out it.

Besides, the God of my understanding does not care if someone believes in Him/Her/It or not. He/She/It will help us anyway.

[Bruunhilde]

Side effects of AA

Dust Mites

c0ffee;1079549 wrote: I had a sponsor tell me to break up with my girlfriend who is my saviour, break my lease, move out of my apartment and move into a 3/4 house, quit my job and not work or think about another relationship for at least a year. He called me up all the damn time asking me things like 'did you make your bed this morning'? Needless to say, I severed that relationship really fast and never got another sponsor ever again. I wish I had told him to fuck off before I stopped calling him but, whatever... Some people have really good experiences and some have really bad ones.

I had to laugh about the making of the bed thing, I've always felt like such a slob, then I learned the other day that making your bed creates a perfect nest for the dust mites living there so they reproduce exponentially. Therefore, making the bed is not hygenic!

Sorry about your bad AA sponsor C0f, sounds like a strange bird.

[Otter]

Side effects of AA

I read an article somewhere from Harvard University that having a supportive spouse is the best support for someone trying to beat alcohol. In the new speak of AA types a supportive spouse is usually referred to as an "enabler". Or worse, "codependant".

Just thought I would add that.

[PbarE]

Side effects of AA

Otter;1080803 wrote: I read an article somewhere from Harvard University that having a supportive spouse is the best support for someone trying to beat alcohol. In the new speak of AA types a supportive spouse is usually referred to as an "enabler". Or worse, "codependant".

Just thought I would add that.

I have never figured that out. Many of us would have died without our wives and family members. I think I will go with Harvard on that one....

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Bruunhilde;1080789 wrote: I had to laugh about the making of the bed thing, I've always felt like such a slob, then I learned the other day that making your bed creates a perfect nest for the dust mites living there so they reproduce exponentially. Therefore, making the bed is not hygenic!

Going off thread for a moment: I never understood the whole "making the bed thing" either. Why? It never was a matter of hygiene. You have to unmake it at night, and it's just going to get messed up when you sleep in it. If you're not having people over to tour your bedroom and admire your matching comforter and shams, what's the point? If it's solely about appearances, why not iron and starch the sheets as well? Societal silliness.

Back the our regularly scheduled thread, which I am enjoying immensely.

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Gyco;1080673 wrote: i hope this thread keeps movin on, i know alcoholism will never stop.

Ain't that the truth.

[Guest]

Side effects of AA

A supportive spouse is quite different to an "Enabler". Supportive spouses understand your problem, encourage you to seek help. I've been at special AA meetings(usually at Christmas times) where supportive spouses were involved and welcomed. It's enablers that are discouraged in AA. Enabling occurs when a spouse, friend, relative etc assists you in your addiction. This can be obvious or subtle and includes things such as covering up your drunken behaviour, protecting you from consequences, playing down how bad your drinking is, running around after you all the time and pandering to your drunken whims. This is what is meant by an enabler.

Co-dependency is a situation where a spouse is so used to being relied up, looking after the addicted person, that when the addicted person enters the recovery phase the codependent suddenly loses their role. In the AA and 12 Step meetings I've attended this was recognised as just that, it wasn't dealt with in the meeting because that was for the codependent to deal with, the primary focus was on the alcoholic and their recovery.I never heard spouses, partners, friends etc slagged off in my time there. Ok there might be some sympathy or empathy expressed, concern for the individual, advice along the lines of talking about it or getting further assistance - but never any nastiness. Maybe I went to a different AA to yours Otter!

[Otter]

Side effects of AA

The distinction which you and AA draw between concepts of "support" and protecting someone from the consequences of their actions is something which I don't find useful. It is just a lot of nonsense as far as I am concerned.

Suppose for instance that you decide to never bring alcohol into the house so you are not enabling the alcoholic. You then end up with the alcoholic going out and buying more, salting it around the house and freaking you out because you have no idea where the stuff is coming from or how much there is. You then end up getting into arguments which make the alcoholic drink more, you get angry and you leave. Where do you get a chance to support the alcoholic? If alcohol is an anxiolitic for a condition and the alcoholic will get alcohol no matter what, what the f... does it matter whether you make them get it themselves. It just breeds a big problem. I hate all this "tough love" BS. It just does not work and does make things worse. Why stress someone out who suffers from a stress disorder because there is some dogma out there which actually never worked for anyone?

What you can do if someone is in an alcoholic cycle, if you control the alcohol, is to taper the alcoholic down, stop them from drinking too heavily and even change the drink to a weaker drink. With Baclofen you can then bring the cycle to an end safely. That is support but AA would call it both enabling and codependent. I have tried both approaches and the AA approach is just reactionary and pointless.

The only thing you can say for the AA approach is that it allows the non alcoholic partner to walk away without any feeling of moral responsibility to a sick spouse/partner by heaping all the blame on the ill partner. It perpetuates the idea that alcoholism is a life style choice by someone who just needs to be be punished to the point of repentance.

Not for me UK.

[RedThread12]

Side effects of AA

In the deepest throes of my drinking, my closest friends split into those who opted not to "enable" by ending their contact with me until I met their requirements for getting better, and those who remained with me regardless of my behavior.

Interestingly, those who opted not to "enable" all had different requirements, having to do with how much I was or was not drinking, how many AA meetings I was or was not going to; whether or not I remembered our conversations from the night before, oh . . . and my favorite, whether or not I had been "working my program," including asking God to remove the defects of my character. (I always had a problem with that word, defects.)

Then there were those (2), who opted to remain my support. Fortunately, I am not a mean drunk, nor one who jeopardized anyone's financial standing except my own. So no one was at immediate risk from remaining in relationship to me, except of course, the sleepless nights they spent with me and without me because of their concern, and the emotional wear and tear of watching a beloved one melt down. Those are the people who saved my life. They respected the decisions that I made in my few moments of sobriety. They allowed me to be safe in their homes, even if I was passed-out drunk. They never chastised me nor bullied me. They helped me stay alive until I found MWO and baclofen.

I was fortunate, I didn't permanently lose any close and loving relationships because of my alcoholism. When I got "well" with baclofen, everyone welcomed me back.

But the place my heart holds for my enablers is so precious. I don't know if I would be alive today had they not held a place for me during the time I couldn't do that for myself.

I do understand when there is a need - a requirement - to withdraw from the addict. I never blamed or felt resentment for those who chose that way. But, as everything, there is no "one size fits all" in this arena. It's yet another way that addiction calls us, and all those around us, forward; to meet each moment with as much presence and discernment as we can muster.

Fuckin' awesome, weird, challenging thread, Otter. Paradigm shifts don't happen easily.

[bleep]

Side effects of AA

Otter, to echo other's thoughts: great thread.

I have to chime in on one thing though - you live in Bristol, and you haven't heard of Banksy?? :wow: Do yourself a favour - do a search online of Banksy artwork in the area, and go for a drive, the man is brilliant!

[Guest]

Side effects of AA

Otter this is where you have read something into what I posted, that just isn't there.

I didn't say anything about not bringing alcohol in the house, and know of several situations within AA where it has been necessary and "supportive" for partners to bring alcohol for their spouses. On instance was where an alcoholic was trying to taper, another was a person who was waiting entry to rehab and would have gone into dangerous withdrawl had their partner not brought alcohol to them. It's all about individual situations. On the other hand "Assisting" with addiction can take other forms - such as constantly buying alcohol for someone who says they'll quit, but never does anything about it. Someone who says get me a beer to get me through the night, but carries on every single time. I had a relationship with another drunk who when I was trying to quit would say "It's ok you've had 4 days AF, you've done really well treat yourself you deserve a drink", whilst stocking up on wine. Enabling can also be much more subtle than this too. Constant helping out, but the person not taking serious steps to help themselves can make the drinker think they can get away with drinking all the time - because XYZ will cover for them.

I also don't agree with "tough love", in my version the partner simply doesn't molly-coddle or pander to the drunk BUT they are there when they do need support.

[gratitude]

Side effects of AA

otter,
perhaps you could post that study from harvard. I would like to see how they defined "supportive". grat.