Side effects of AA

[coalfire]

Side effects of AA

Greg I have sent you a pm. Yes star trek. Ok I gotta star trek my way to bed.

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

one2many;1076697 wrote: Why are you here in this thread? Why would you want to be? Why don't you just go back to AA land where people won't upset you?

I am getting annoyed with the AA folk popping in because - why do that? I wouldn't be caught dead in an AA thread. Why would they want to come into this one? Perplexing.


So did you not say this Tracy?

Yes, I did - in two different posts, and one of them was not a response to you. Why are you coming into a thread that you know will upset you? If you are going to go into a thread, why not address the issues in the thread? The only thing AA people have done, save Paul, is give personal testimony and have, like you did, completely ignored the issues raised. Why is that?

I would never post in AA thread, especially one praising AA (there is no other kind), and present these arguments. Why would someone completely disinterested in the arguments presented, pop in to present their "personal testimony"? What is so threatening about this thread that people like you cannot leave it alone? I did not tell you to leave - I asked you "Why?". It is perplexing.

I am sorry that I assumed you were in AA. You sure talk like one who is. But all of the above questions remain. Please answer them, and please, please address the issues raised regarding the destructiveness of AA. If you really cannot do that, and all you have to offer is "personal testimony" and insults (and, yes, you insulted me), why not just go away? See, there's the question again. It's not an order. It's a question. Please answer it.

[Guest]

Side effects of AA

one2many;1076697 wrote: Why are you here in this thread? Why would you want to be? Why don't you just go back to AA land where people won't upset you?

I am getting annoyed with the AA folk popping in because - why do that? I wouldn't be caught dead in an AA thread. Why would they want to come into this one? Perplexing.


So did you not say this Tracy?

Perhaps the AAers could start a "Side Effects of Baclofen" thread in their section?

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Ukblonde;1076718 wrote: Perhaps the AAers could start a "Side Effects of Baclofen" thread in their section?

Bravo, UK. If they do, I promise not post a personal testimony of baclofen.

[AllyB]

Side effects of AA

one2many;1076665 wrote: AA does NOT kill people, nobody makes us pick up a drink except ourselves.

Yes it does. It very much really does. I know my uncle who died in December would not be dead now if it wasn't for his involvement in that organisation. I know I wouldn't have spent new years eve with my grieving grandmother clinging to me for 3 hours while we sat beside her son's body if it wasn't for what that organisation did to him. I know I wouldn't have spent new years day standing next to my 3 year old cousin asking why his daddy was in a box that was being put in the ground if it wasn't for the influence AA had on him.

Their death rate is much, much higher than their "success" rate. I put success in inverted commas because that 5% refers to people who continue attending meetings for over a year, not people who successfully stop drinking. AAWS knows this and they not only ignore all of their internal reports which state they need to change but they actively insinuate themselves and their worse than useless steps into the health system (as a cursory look at the history of the NIAAA makes clear) and worse courts system.

They hurt a lot of people and they hurt people very, very badly. There are some absolute horror stories out there, a lot of them. Why I Left AA Stories – Stinkin' Thinkin'

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Sheri;1076722 wrote: Tracy,

I didn't mention your name in my post, but I do find your words and tone to those that dared to disagree with you mocking, shaming, extremely confrontational and akin to school-yard bullying, including this one to me.

Well, Sheri, it's sad that you feel that way. I asked you to "show" me. You declined. Nuf said.

[one2many]

Side effects of AA

I am not upset Tracy and I will post in whatever thread I like, and give my own personal account of whatever is the subject because that is my valid and honest experience of AA. It WAS NOT destructive in my experience, nor did it kill my Dad.

I talk like someone who is in AA?? Why? Because I am grateful that my dad went and got sober??

Ahhh Tracy you would argue Jesus off the cross....I'll leave you to your little crusade.

[Cassia]

Side effects of AA

TracyA;1076627 wrote:

So, ya'll can take your "AA is okay," nonsense to some other thread. That's NOT what this thread is about. AA is NOT okay, and I have several of my own stories that I could add.

Anyone else care to step up with personal testimony about how great AA is?

Anyone?

Hi again,

It's the ignorant one here!! Per above, you asked for personal testimony so a couple of us offered some.

I am not an aa person either, in fact the few times I went to aa I found that I couldn't relate and that there was a lot of our way or the highway preaching. Not for me personally. But at the same time, aa has helped a lot of people maintain their sobriety or at least feel like they have somewhere to go to discuss things with like minded people, a place where they fee safe. I don't agree that anyone should be made to feel that they are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves just because they can't maintain their sobriety. Yeah, it's flawed but heck, what isn't. I don't think it can just be rubbished because of those flaws.

What is needed is alternatives to aa to be accepted by a wider audience to give people choice. Like mwo on a wider scale.

[coalfire]

Side effects of AA

I was supposed to be going to bed but

" Like mwo on a wider scale."-cassia :applaud:

[AllyB]

Side effects of AA

Cassia;1076733 wrote: What is needed is alternatives to aa to be accepted by a wider audience to give people choice. Like mwo on a wider scale.

But that doesn't happen because of the very real, legal and political, actions of the AAWS and the NIAAA. This isn't about a benign organisation that helps a few people and everyone else should leave alone. This is big, big business. The AA has the monopoly it has because it sought it out and it sought it out because it's extremely, extremely profitable. The AAWS makes millions annually from publishing. Many of the NIAAA board are owners of expensive 12 Step rehabs which pull in 100s of millions, possibly billions, annually.

If the AA actually was what most people think it is, a collection of self-run, self-help groups nobody would care. But it isn't. It's a massive, highly profitable business. And more people who go to them for help die by suicide alone than achieve any recovery at all. If a cancer healthcare provider had that type of record there would be public lynchings.

[Cassia]

Side effects of AA

Allyb - surely the monopoly laws on America should be doing something about it then? Maybe it's worth people who feel strongly about the point you have just made doing some lobbying?
Hmm...definitely food for thought...thanks.

[JohnR]

Side effects of AA

Cassia;1076733 wrote: What is needed is alternatives to aa to be accepted by a wider audience to give people choice.

Couldn't agree more and would add: "and that the medical community embraces".

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Cassia;1076733 wrote: Hi again,

It's the ignorant one here!!
Knock it off, already. This is what I said: "They referred him to AA because there was no where else for him to go - because AA COMPLETELY RULES the treatment industry. Can you understand that. I can't decide if you really are ignorant of that fact or if you are just choosing to ignore it.

Apparently, you were choosing to ignore it. But that, the fact that you addressed zero of the issues raised - AND brought up the whole allergy thing - made me think that you really don't understand what we are talking about with baclofen.

I am not an aa person either, in fact the few times I went to aa I found that I couldn't relate and that there was a lot of our way or the highway preaching. Not for me personally. But at the same time, aa has helped a lot of people maintain their sobriety
At what cost? So, it's helped some people and screw the other 95%, or the other 50%?

or at least feel like they have somewhere to go to discuss things with like minded people, a place where they fee safe.
Well, I suppose you are safe in AA - if tow the AA line.

I don't agree that anyone should be made to feel that they are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves just because they can't maintain their sobriety.

That is the central premise of AA!!!!

Yeah, it's flawed but heck, what isn't.

Very often, things that are flawed do not kill people.

I don't think it can just be rubbished because of those flaws.

I think it should be rubbished to hell and back until it becomes what it should have all along - a little niche that works for a small minority.

What is needed is alternatives to aa to be accepted by a wider audience to give people choice. Like mwo on a wider scale.

Yes!! I think so too. Now, all that is left is to punch through the armor of AA (okay, and big-pharma). Do you care to take that on? See why I'm so passionate about this?

[AllyB]

Side effects of AA

Cassia;1076760 wrote: Allyb - surely the monopoly laws on America should be doing something about it then? Maybe it's worth people who feel strongly about the point you have just made doing some lobbying?
Hmm...definitely food for thought...thanks.

We are, it's been ongoing for years and there have been numerous high profile court cases about state sentencing of 12 Step treatment (in the US). From the guys at the website I linked,* to the ACLU, to the wonderful Penn and Teller. There are a lot of people up against this and working hard at it.

*Who btw link MWO as a good resource for people looking for help.

[Cassia]

Side effects of AA

Tracya

I can totally see where your passion comes from. The world needs more passionate people.

I also can understand what you are talking about with bac. If it truly is a medical cure for alcoholism then it should be heralded, thoroughly tested and approved by the various drug agencies throughout the world and give people a viable option.

That said, I still stand by what I said about aa. Opinions right?