Side effects of AA

[madmans]

Side effects of AA

If i was in AA now i would think whats the hells the point ,lift a bottle and get drunk. why would you start a thread thats going to knock the hope out of someone. drinking kill people drinking.

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

AllyB;1076770 wrote: We are, it's been ongoing for years and there have been numerous high profile court cases about state sentencing of 12 Step treatment (in the US).
As far as I know, it was found to be a religious organization in every supreme court it was brought before. Yet, courts still order mandatory treatment. WTF?

From the guys at the website I linked,* to the ACLU, to the wonderful Penn and Teller. There are a lot of people up against this and working hard at it.

More and more all the time. Penn and Teller (love them anyway) did a great job.

*Who btw link MWO as a good resource for people looking for help.

Yes, MWO may yet save my butt.

[Ringing Cedars]

Side effects of AA

AllyB;1076770 wrote: We are, it's been ongoing for years and there have been numerous high profile court cases about state sentencing of 12 Step treatment (in the US). From the guys at the website I linked,* to the ACLU, to the wonderful Penn and Teller. There are a lot of people up against this and working hard at it.

*Who btw link MWO as a good resource for people looking for help.

I really wasn't clear or had an opinion one way or the other. But you've made it very clear with your posts AllyB. Good for you and others taking it on. I wish you might and numbers!

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

[QUOTE=Cassia;1076777]Tracya

I also can understand what you are talking about with back. If it truly is a medical cure for alcoholism then it should be heralded, thoroughly tested and approved by the various drug agencies throughout the world and give people a viable option.

We're working on it, but there are two big bullies in our path. One is AA. The other is big-phara. Both are going to take a big hit (partly because no one owns a patent on baclofen).

That said, I still stand by what I said about aa. Opinions right?

Opinions vs. facts - Let's just say that I'm happy to be on this side of the AA fence. Thanks for the exchange. I think I like you. :l

[Cassia]

Side effects of AA

Indeed! I do enjoy a good debate as I gather you do too!

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

madmans;1076781 wrote: If i was in AA now i would think whats the hells the point ,lift a bottle and get drunk. why would you start a thread thats going to knock the hope out of someone. drinking kill people drinking.

Start at the beginning of the thread. If it's still not clear why this thread exists, I don't know what more to say

. . . and, it's all about hope!

[madmans]

Side effects of AA

i did

[madmans]

Side effects of AA

and for hope you give none to a person in AA

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

madmans;1076796 wrote: i did

Then somewhere in there you read about the destructiveness of AA, how ineffective it is, how it's got a complete choke-hold on the treatment industry, and how it kills people.

What was the question again?

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

madmans;1076797 wrote: and for hope you give none to a person in AA

I guess I should apologize to that 5% of people who make it in AA . . . but I won't. They will be fine in AA, regardless of what is written here. Those who haven't done so well in AA - you know, the majority - should know that their experience is not unusual and that they can try treatments that have evolved in the 80 years since AA was formed. They don't have to use gas lights either, or drive model AAs or clean their clothes with wringer washers . . .

[Kimberley]

Side effects of AA

I just want to enter the debate as a recent AA convert (and yes I am prepared for flaming, though I would prefer a proper debate with ALL people's experiences considered).

I am not a recruiter for AA and nor would I insist it is the only way, but for some, I believe it is undoubtedly the only thing that works, or one of a combination of things that works. And I used to be vehemently anti-AA. I would still never have attacked it personally or people who attended, but I was arrogantly scornful of it in my head, thought it wasn't for 'people like me' and believed it was religious and cult-ish (not a cult, but with uncomfortable undertones). That is because I didn't understand it.

I too have a problem with the fact that as soon as you admit to your GP that you have an alcohol problem, they want to pack you off to AA. This makes me angry, purely because said GP never explains what it has to offer and it seemed like I was being offloaded whenever I was directed towards it.

I am sorry to hear about your brother Tracy, and I am equally sorry whenever I hear of anyone's poor experiences of any type of treatment, whether that be being put on the wrong meds, having a crappy incompetent therapist or going to an AA meeting and not being treated kindly or properly guided.

Before I became an AA advocate (as in liking it and expressing that, not shoving it down people's throats), I went to a handful of meetings and drank after every one of them - before as well in some cases. I remember phoning my parents after one meeting and telling them all the people at AA were horrible as a group of girls had kind of snubbed me there - failing to focus on the fact that one of the other members sat with me for over half an hour outside the meeting just taking the time to talk to me.

In all groups of people, there are those whom we don't like, or whose approach we don't like - we are humans. And some groups are friendlier than others, some people are blunter with people and others are softer. In my experience (76th meeting today), thankfully the vast majority of people in the meetings are kind and gentle, especially to newcomers. I am sorry that your brother's experience happened not to be that. This is why every time anyone asks about going to AA for the first time, I would always recommend phoning the helpline and having an AA member meet you before or at the meeting, as this kind of handholding made it all so much better. I would never have walked back through the doors without it.

Yes part of the literature reads as a bit dogmatic - but then it was also written at a time when it referred mostly to the reader as a man and had a separate section directed towards the wives on how to deal with their alcoholic husband! I do not find this problematic at all, as most members THEMSELVES are NOT rigid about the literature, sensibly take the attitude "Take what you can and leave the rest" - I hear this common sense attitude tempering the actual literature all the time.

Same with the god thing - I do not believe in god (see, not even writing it with a capital letter) and yet no-one has threatened to fling me out of AA - in fact I already have a lot of AA 'buddies', some of whom have multiple years sober and have no formal belief in god.

In my experience, people who relapse are welcomed warmly back into AA - I have never seen anyone treated otherwise. Relapse is sadly a massive part of almost every addict's story. I have never personally met a single person in recovery who has NOT relapsed at some point. Not one. Whatever type of treatment they have undergone. I have met people who have been sober ever since they started AA but had relapsed trying to control it on their own, or those who have stayed long-term sober with therapy but had relapsed on meds alone. But relaspe is in the story of 95% or therabouts of true alcoholics. I guess the 5% are those who found the right combination of tools first time around - lucky them I say, whatever those tools are.

In my opinion, AA works for certain people - those who desperately need a support network they can rely on any time they need it, and people who truly understand and accept them (this is me - not ashamed to admit that anymore), who can't succeed in fighting the battle alone forever.

I believe that one of the greatest strengths of the progamme itself is that it focuses on finally being honest with yourself and others (what a relief), making yourself a better person, letting go of the horrible hurtful past by making amends (who has not relapsed due to thinking about all the shit they went through and did to others in their drinking), getting things off your chest in a safe environment and helping others (many AAers believe this is the key to staying well).

There IS NO CURE for alcoholism - there are no 100% effective treatments or miracle drugs that work 100% of the time. There are only tools, whether that be AA, therapy, meds, whatever. They are only tools that it is for us to try to use as best we can. Whatever treatments and tools I use, I will always be an alcoholic. If I find the right combination of tools for me and continue to use them, I can be a sober alcoholic. A daily reprive, in AA words.

For people who AA doesn't work for, sorry to hear that, but find a way that does work for you if you can. I, and the vast majority of AAers will NOT 'doom' you IF you find another way that works. If you can't find another way that works, maybe try AA again? (No attacks for saying that, please. I only 'got it' because I went back and tried it 'properly'. If you get 'better' some other way, no worries about you not coming back as long as you're well.)

People who feel the need to just attack AA regardless just don't understand it, in my opinion. Or have not experienced what it truly has to offer. I know because I was one of them. What I now don't understand is why anyone would feel the need to attack another's choice of treatment if it works for them.

All the best with your individual ways out guys - I hope I have finally found mine,
K x (currently staying sober through AA and a good therapist)

[Cinders]

Side effects of AA

It was about a month ago I was at a doctor's office asking for Naltrexone.

He told me "Go to AA." He was sincerely driven. Truly.

He told me "Addiction doesn't change."

I told him, the understanding and treatment of addiction has.

He smiled. He hopes the best for me.

I hope the best for him.

I am just so tired of the "I hate AA" threads.

AA does help people. Many.

I do not take umbrage with them. They are good and well-meaning people.

Any method that helps 1.5% of us is good.

I am sick unto death of those who know better. Just like them.

JUST LIKE THEM.

That is how I read this.

Cindi

[Kimberley]

Side effects of AA

Cassia;1076733 wrote: Yeah, it's flawed but heck, what isn't. I don't think it can just be rubbished because of those flaws.

AMEN, Cassia!! I just spent an hour writing a reply - and you have summed it all up very well in a sentence.

K x

[madmans]

Side effects of AA

drinking kills, if AA does not work do something different. AA has saved lives so has meds. but to come out with a statement that AA kills no if's or but's , people that are in AA now are reading this, if i was struggling would i not reach for the bottle and say whats the point. not everyone can go the meds route and have nothing only AA, are you telling them you might as well not even try?

[c0ffee]

Side effects of AA

I think this thread is F'ing awesome. LUV it! And it couldn't have come at a better time being that I just found out today that I was taken to collections months ago for an outstanding bill that I didn't know about for a 28 day inpatient I went to a while back. It was a 12 stepper of course.

Now, I am neutral on all fronts when it comes to what works and what doesn't being that I haven't found what works for me yet but I am without a doubt leaning WAY more towards supporting the meds people. Nothing has worked for me yet but 12 steps was the first to be ruled out completely 'for me' because I, like many others have already said, think it is absolutely ridiculous to convince yourself that a medical condition can be treated by finding GOD. However, I have nothing against AA. I think it is great if some people can find sobriety there. They are self supporting through their own contributions and do not wish to engage in any controversy, so I'm not sure why any AA supporter would be on this thread giving their 2 cents. They should stick to the principles which should have been instilled in them long ago through their program.

I DO, on the other hand, have a huge problem with these 12 step based treatment centers (inpatient) that charge people that come in at the end of their rope an arm and a leg to deliver on a 1-2% success rate. Yes, 1-2% success or that's what I was told by the program director of the inpatient 'treatment' program that I was in. The nurses referred to where they worked as 'the bus stop' because the same people would be back in there over and over and over again. They laughed about it all the time. I came into these places every time begging for help and left in worse shape than when I came in. This one place made almost 25K off of me within a 6 month period of time and still wants another $2,500 from me. They call it 'treatment' but to me when I hear the word treatment I think of something like chemo or perscribing someone penicilin for an infection. All they really do is piss you off and teach you about GOD and charge you money for it. Anyway, I think if your gonna charge someone that much money and call it 'treatment', you better be sure to deliver more than 1-2% of the time imo. When I called up today to argue about my bill, I asked the program director 'Haven't you a-holes made enough money off me?' His answer to me was 'We are a not-for-profit organization, we don't make any money off of you. It all goes toward the cost of your treatment.' This coming from a man that drives around in a mercedes and lives in a multi-million dollar house and comes into work everyday to tell a bunch of drug addicts about GOD. Give me a break! But I guess these people have an answer for everything, that is their business. And I'm sure that's why ABN Amro bought such a large stake in the Betty Ford clinic, for the lack of profit because that is their business. We're talking about one of the largest and smartest investment banks in the world. I'm sure they engage in investments that won't be profitable. The point is, its a money making machine. They want people to keep coming back over and over and over again. Its completely recession proof and probably does even better in a recession and is in my opinion the biggest f'ing scam on the planet.

One last thing. A quick question for anyone with any ideas:
So, I went to an AA meeting today after this thread was started just for shits and giggles. I found it interesting that there was a girl that shared that kept repeating and insisting on it that she was greatful to be an alcoholic. I found it to be extremely odd. I was never, am not now and will never be greatful for having been blessed with the wonderful disease of addiction. I would rather be 450 pds, have a prick the size of my pinky and be special ed. I would not wish it upon my worst enemy. Can anyone explain this bizarre comment? Because it isn't the first time I've heard it in AA.