Side effects of AA

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Kimberley, I liked your post. This is not a flame. Sometimes people thing that a very direct debate is a flame. This is not a flame (and I say this as a Usenet kid - I know what a flame is)

Kimberley;1076809 wrote: I
There IS NO CURE for alcoholism - there are no 100% effective treatments or miracle drugs that work 100% of the time.
There are not, but an 80+% percentile is pretty damn good, IMO.

For people who AA doesn't work for, sorry to hear that, but find a way that does work for you if you can.
". . . if you can." Nice. It would be grand if AA would move out of the way.

I, and the vast majority of AAers will NOT 'doom' you IF you find another way that works. If you can't find another way that works, maybe try AA again? (No attacks for saying that, please. I only 'got it' because I went back and tried it 'properly'.

Meaning, you got the steps right.

People who feel the need to just attack AA regardless just don't understand it, in my opinion.

Oh, I think I definitely understand. I think a lot of people do. I think the vast majority of people who try AA do understand it.

What I now don't understand is why anyone would feel the need to attack another's choice of treatment if it works for them.

Because this thread isn't about attacking people or people choices of treatment. It is very much attacking an out-of-control institution that causes a lot of damage. I'm going to start doing it with everyone who posts: Please, please post about the issues raised about the destructiveness of AA. Address the very central sickness of the program itself. Address that AA is the only thing known by the courts and medical profession (and Abby has written that it was all quite intentional. I tend to agree). Why is it so hard to address all that, and so easy to talk about how great AA is? I don't get it - and I have been to hundreds of meetings, served central office, served as intergroup rep (because AA was the only option) - and I still don't get what is so great about AA that it is just fine to dismiss all the damage it does.

AA is not okay.

[Cinders]

Side effects of AA

One last thing.A quick question for anyone with any ideas:
So, I went to an AA meeting today after this thread was started just for shits and giggles. I found it interesting that there was a girl that shared that kept repeating and insisting on it that she was greatful to be an alcoholic. I found it to be extremely odd. I was never, am not now and will never be greatful for having been blessed with the wonderful disease of addiction. I would rather be 450 pds, have a prick the size of my pinky and be special ed. I would not wish it upon my worst enemy. Can anyone explain this bizarre comment? Because it isn't the first time I've heard it in AA.

Because ANYONE who has beat this addiction should be proud.

I know many. They are in AA, they are on here doing Bac and they are on here doing no meds. They are beating it.

I am not. I cannot "do" AA and I do not have tiger blood.

Good for those who do beat it, though. My heart sings for you all.

Love,
Cindi

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

c0ffee;1076834 wrote:
They are self supporting through their own contributions and do not wish to engage in any controversy, so I'm not sure why any AA supporter would be on this thread giving their 2 cents. They should stick to the principles which should have been instilled in them long ago through their program.
*applause* *standing* Thank you, thank you, c0ffe.

They call it 'treatment' but to me when I hear the word treatment I think of something like chemo or perscribing someone penicilin for an infection. All they really do is piss you off and teach you about GOD and charge you money for it.
Yes, that is institutionalized AA. It rules the treatment centers, the medical profession and the courts.

This coming from a man that drives around in a mercedes and lives in a multi-million dollar house to come in to work and tell a bunch of drug addicts about GOD everyday. Give me a break!

Yes, it's quite the racket. No doubt about it.

One last thing. A quick question for anyone with any ideas:
So, I went to an AA meeting today after this thread was started just for shits and giggles. I found it interesting that there was a girl that shared that kept repeating and insisting on it that she was greatful to be an alcoholic. I found it to be extremely odd. I was never, am not now and will never be greatful for having been blessed with the wonderful disease of addiction. I would rather be 450 pds, have a prick the size of my pinky and be special ed. I would not wish it upon my worst enemy. Can anyone explain this bizarre comment? Because it isn't the first time I've heard it in AA.

A sponsor told me once that alcoholics were God's chosen people. The jingoism inherent in that statement is almost too much to bear - but that's the way a lot of people in AA think. Imagine someone with even a treatable illness saying that. Imagine someone with diabetes saying that. Or someone who is morbidly obese. Or someone who is bi-polar, or schizophrenic. We'd consider it insane.

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Cinders;1076846 wrote:
I am not. I cannot "do" AA and I do not have tiger blood.
I am happy to hear that you do not have "tiger blood." It's not necessary, and it hasn't worked out so well for Charlie Sheen.

But you don't need tiger blood. An effective treatment - I'm guessing that's what you need.

Good for those who do beat it, though. My heart sings for you all.

I applaud anyone who makes it out of this foxhole.

[c0ffee]

Side effects of AA

Cindi, I'm sorry but that to me sounds bizarre as well. If I had some other deadly disease, I would not be greatful that I had it. My philosophy is to not have to do or create anymore work than I have to or already have on my plate. This disease has created more than what I would even consider 'work'; It has at times ruled my life and at certain times almost left me for dead. so... I would never be greatful for it.

[Kimberley]

Side effects of AA

C0ffee - just to put you straight about AA members defending AA - the traditions you quoted refer to the organisation itself, not individual members. I can court controversy, break my own anonymity etc all I like as an individual - but I can not speak FOR AA as an organisation.

Tracy, thanks for responding and for entering into the spirit of the debate in your reply

One word first about the meds and their 80% success rate - I find most statistics questionable. Is this 80% of all people who started meds? Or those who stuck with meds? What percentage stopped taking them? What was the level of addiction of those who succeeded on meds? Were any of those patients dual-diagnosis or with comorbid conditions or other disorders?

I can say 100% that antabuse would've worked for me if I had taken it. When I took it I didn't drink and it got me a fair amount of sober time under my belt, but ultimately I stopped taking it as it didn't offer me what I really needed - support. Just a few of the meny questions about that stat - I would dearly love to believe a REAL solution existed, but this addiction/illness/allergy/mental obsession and physical condition/genetic condition is so multi-facted that I find it hard to believe we will ever find a one-size-fits-all solution.

I am glad you have explained more about your personal involvement in AA - I think this adds another layer to your argument.

To address your point as best I can, the reason I posted about my experiences is because, even if AA IS touted as THE solution by alot of the medical and judicial profession, I do not believe that this is necessarily an AWFUL nor destructive thing.

I am in the UK, so maybe it is totally different, but over here I have been told many times by GPs etc to go to AA but I have NEVER been pressganged to and I have always been offered alternative treatments.

I have been in two state-funded inpatient detoxes, neither of which were based on 12-step. We had a weekly optional AA group brought into the hospital but were not penalised for not taking it up (I remember when everyone went around the room saying "I'm so-and-so and I'm an alcoholic." when it came to my turn I said "I'm Kim and I don't like labels". It was optional and I finished my detox all the same, receiving a referral to Aftercare, not to AA. I have had alcohol counselling for over a year, state-funded, no mention of AA.

Maybe it is different in the US, which is why I'm not really getting your argument. In the UK, AA is 'take it or leave it'. GPs encourage it rather than prescribe it. I used to be in the subs misuse field and different models are always being touted but I do not believe we will ever lean towards a mandatory AA to the exclusion of all else. It is true that people who have broken the law due to drug or alcohol use can choose between AA/rehab or prison. But there are always other options available, too. Sure you may have to do AA (although engagement with other non-AA services are often also acceptable) if you don't want to go to prison, but that will not mean you won't get counselling, meds, whatever as well.

In my opinion, in the UK at least, AA is okay.

K x

[Cinders]

Side effects of AA

c0ffee;1076875 wrote: Cindi, I'm sorry but that to me sounds bizarre as well. If I had some other deadly disease, I would not be greatful that I had it. My philosophy is to not have to do or create anymore work than I have to or already have on my plate. This disease has created more than what I would even consider 'work'; It has at times ruled my life and at certain times almost left me for dead. so... I would never be greatful for it.

Oh yippee Skippee!!

I can find YOUR way out.

Thanks so much. I am so glad you are here.

Love,
Cindi

[Cinders]

Side effects of AA

Oh, and greatful is spelled grateful.

[coalfire]

Side effects of AA

Yes I was beginning to suspect the same thing. Its the same in Ireland. No one makes you go to AA. If you are caught drink driving you lose your licence for a year but you arent told to go to AA. You can go to mcdonalds if you want. The courts just apply the law. They dont deal with the whole AA thing. No one talks about it. I cant remember the last time I even saw the words AA in the media. Maybe that explains the shrug-whatever-you-are-into-buddy attitude a lot of people have here this side of the atlantic. The gp will send you wherever you want ie if you want to see a psychiatrist you can and if you want a counseller you can and if you want AA you can. If you want meds though you gotta negotiate depending on the med. Baclofen is not mainstream by any means. :bedtime: This time I mean it.

[Cinders]

Side effects of AA

and we don't loose weight, we lose weight.

sigh.

Pedantic, I know.

Love,
Cindi

loosing weight does have its appeal, though.

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Cinders;1076883 wrote: Oh yippee Skippee!!

I can find YOUR way out.

Thanks so much. I am so glad you are here.

Given the full disclosure and heartbreak inherent the post that preceded the comment above, I have to ask: What the hell was that pile of crap that Cindi wrote????

If every person who pounced on me does not pounce on Cindi - right now - . . . why not just go away already? The above post is proof of nothing good happening here from the folks hell bent on defending AA. What just happened is really dismal, destructive, intended to hurt - so very typical of AA. Why not just go away instead?

[coalfire]

Side effects of AA

Whats up cinders?

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

coalfire;1076885 wrote: No one makes you go to AA. If you are caught drink driving you lose your licence for a year but you arent told to go to AA. You can go to mcdonalds if you want. The courts just apply the law. They dont deal with the whole AA thing.

I wish it were so here. Even if a court offers "You can do AA or some other program, but you must do it seven days a week" very often, there is nothing else. It would be immensely cool if they simply applied the law here, instead of mandating AA.

[coalfire]

Side effects of AA

I think the penny is dropping with me. If I was told to sort out my addiction according to the methods a judge thought was right I would be pissed off too. No its all jail/ financial fine/lose your licence... and thats it. Ok I think I am beginning to understand American anger. We forget the cultural differences sometimes. I wonder what it is like with our down under friends?

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

coalfire;1076889 wrote: Whats up cinders?

I am actually hoping that she is drunk. I'd really hate to think that's who she truly is because I really liked her before.

Hey, Cindi, you might not remember, but you and I have a history. Around October of 2007, you wished me good luck going to treatment center. In 2010, I did the same for you.