Side effects of AA

[madmans]

Side effects of AA

how does it kill people

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Sheri;1077301 wrote: Not all side effects are bad, Tracy!

True. There are some good, unintentional effects of the meds too (as Murph and others would certainly confirm). But generally, on the meds forum, when we talk about "side effects" we are talking about the dictionary definitions:

1. any unwanted nontherapeutic effect caused by a drug
2. any secondary effect, esp an undesirable one

You have listed positive effects, which were surely not unintentional, and therefore are not really "side effects" going by the dictionary definition.

Sheri, what do you see as the negative effects of AA?

[coalfire]

Side effects of AA

"It would be difficult to do without adding the fear factor"


ok one post one issue. I have to think as well as write!


I went to AA because there was a big billboard advertising campaign at the time in town. I will never forget it. It said

"worried about your drinking?Let us put your mind at rest"

MY alcoholism had only just begun although I didnt know it was alcoholism at the time. I was very puzzled by this strange behaviour I was starting to display around alcohol and I just had my first few blackouts. I was hoping it was stress. I went to the meeting and hid in the bushes to make sure no one I knew went in. I hid for so long I was late and the meeting was just started.I slipped into the back row and started to listen. All these people were talking about very personal, very serious life issues. I thought oh oh!I am in the wrong place. I am here to talk about the treatment. I looked around wondering where the doctor was. I saw two doors half way up the hall. I thought he must be in there. Someone walked out and I waited to see if a nurse would come out to call the next person in. She didnt arrive and I wondered should I go up and knock on the door and give her my name. I had already interrupted the meeting once though and I was loathe to do it again. I was worried that I would get into trouble for listening to all these personal stories. I had obviously walked into the wrong group.Would they accept my apology?What should I do? The meeting ended and they welcomed the new member. Who me?!!! People started to fold up chairs and still no one told me where I should go. I walked up to the doctors treatment room ,knocked,and cautiously peeked around the door...to find the mens toilets. I knocked on the next door and found... the ladies toilets. I went to the people who seemed to be running the meeting and asked them where the doctor was. They told me there was no doctor. I asked the leader if I could I have a word with him. He said yes but he couldnt sponsor me because he was a man and I was a woman.I thought he was cracked. Sponsor to me meant sponsored walk or swim or whatever. I told him that I was here for the treatment. He looked at me and with a resigned world weary look on his face he said treatment? What treatment? He must have seen the look of horror on my face because he said look just keep coming back. It works if you work it. I cried all the way home. The next week I went back. I wanted to ask people. What is happening to me? Am I an alcoholic? I dont drink during the day only nighttime etc. I was in a group of people who were talking about prison and divorce. At the end of the meeting I bought up every booklet they had on their bookstand went home,got mega drunk and never went back.

There is no way of avoiding the fear factor when talking about alcoholism. Unfortuately any young alcoholic is right to be scared but there is a better way of doing it than that. You know the way docs tell patients about a serious illness. They are honest with them but they manage to give them hope etc Well my clinic would do that. Docs are trained to break bad news.Thats why the entry point in my clinic would be a talk run by a highly trained highly sensitive individual. I would offer people counselling just to deal with their diagnosis alone. Now I am away to think about your other points.

[madmans]

Side effects of AA

i didn't think i would get an answer, if your going to make that kind of statement at least back it up with facts. i am out of this thread. and as for the side effects of AA either you will stop drinking or you won't , if AA kills anyone call the police , goodbye. MM

[Longshot]

Side effects of AA

madmans;1077295 wrote: how does it kill people
The opening spiel of any meeting for a start

AA meetings wrote: . Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

Being told that if you don't get AA, you are incapable of understanding this program, you are a "unfortunate" and will never recover.

It's a damning phrase to utter to people who are frightened desperate and vulnerable,


More.

"Alcoholism is a incurable disease."

Crap. Utter Crap. But it made me feel like I could not control myself when I was drinking.

Others

"You must hit rock bottom" etc etc.

All these trite little pieces of shit made me feel like I wasn't in control, that my drinking dominated me, and only AA could save me. And that because I couldn't "get" AA I was doomed.



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Oh and while I'm on the subject madman, you claim AA isn't religious, so Why does every AA meeting in Ireland end with the Lords Prayer?.

And it does because I've been to many.

-----------------

Or hey lets have another one.


Do you really want to spend your evening hanging around with some sick fuck who rapes children
Reprisals fear after sex attack on five-year-old - Courts, National News - Herald.ie

The Herald wrote: Judge James McDonnell at Tallaght District Court also certified the man as a sex offender on the Sex Offenders Register.

The 50-year-old man, who cannot be named for legal reasons, and with an address in south Dublin, had pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting the five-year-old girl at his home in Tallaght on June 1, 2010.

The case was before the court for a victim impact statement and a pre-sentence report.

The young victim's mother, who was visibly upset, was present in court, as were members of the defendant's family.

Defence lawyer Steven Dixon said the defendant, who is married and with a family of his own, had shown "shame and remorse at this horrible crime".

Mr Dixon said the defendant was a chronic alcoholic but was attending Alcoholics Anonymous and was trying to deal with his drink problem. He said the defendant had co-operated fully with the probation service.

The court heard the defendant had three previous convictions, including a conviction for common indecency dating from 1992.

Mr Dixon said the defendant is battling an addiction to alcohol and is attending AA meetings. He said: "He is ashamed and remorseful of this horrid crime and he wishes to deal with the issues that lead to it."

Judge McDonnell said the appropriate way to deal with the matter was by way of a suspended sentence.

He sentenced the man to nine months jail but suspended it for five years on condition that the defendant be under the supervision of the probation services for the next three years.

Thats, talllaght man. My neck of the woods. You really want to spend your days at AA meetings with a guy who got a suspended sentence for molesting a 5 year old child?

[coalfire]

Side effects of AA

Lonshot.I dont think that is fair. Paedophiles exist in every single walk of life. You honestly cant blame AA for that. You could as easily sit beside a paedophile on a bus.

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Longshot;1077319 wrote: Oh and while I'm on the subject madman, you claim AA isn't religious, so Why does every AA meeting in Ireland end with the Lords Prayer?.

It is not just Ireland. I have yet to attend a meeting in the US that did not end with "the Lord's Prayer." It takes only a cursory glance at the steps to understand that it is, very definitely, without a shadow of a doubt, a religious program. Every supreme court that I know of has deemed it "religion" in any case where that was the question (and I assume that those judges are pretty practiced in neutrality). So why don't people think that AA is religion? Because, Bill W. said so, therefore it must be true.

[coalfire]

Side effects of AA

Sheri I like your list.

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

coalfire;1077321 wrote: Lonshot.I dont think that is fair. Paedophiles exist in every single walk of life.

You can't, but that is one of the problems with court-mandated attendance in AA. I was talking to one guy in intergroup who said that the courts were killing AA, that a lot of the people in meetings should not be there. He brought up one gal who had stolen a car but had never, ever had a substance abuse problem. The judge ordered her to attend AA anyway. So, what AA has become is dumping ground for the courts. It's free, so it is a lot easier and cheaper to dump the pedophiles (and any other criminal) in AA. So what if there is no cure for pedophillia? At least it's a place to stick them, and anyone else who commits a crime. The whole court-ordered thing is really backfiring for AA.

[Longshot]

Side effects of AA

coalfire;1077321 wrote: Lonshot.I dont think that is fair. Paedophiles exist in every single walk of life. You honestly cant blame AA for that. You could as easily sit beside a paedophile on a bus.
No but read


Defence lawyer Steven Dixon said the defendant, who is married and with a family of his own, had shown "shame and remorse at this horrible crime".

Mr Dixon said the defendant was a chronic alcoholic but was attending Alcoholics Anonymous and was trying to deal with his drink problem. He said the defendant had co-operated fully with the probation service.

The court heard the defendant had three previous convictions, including a conviction for common indecency dating from 1992.

Mr Dixon said the defendant is battling an addiction to alcohol and is attending AA meetings. He said: "He is ashamed and remorseful of this horrid crime and he wishes to deal with the issues that lead to it."

His solicitor is using AA as part of his plea.

I may not know the guy sitting next to me on the bus is paedophile, but I don't have to interact and listen to that paedophile speak. That guy on the bus isn't likely to have a impact on my life.

The guy on the bus isn't using his relationship with my group as part of his plea bargain to escape prison.

[coalfire]

Side effects of AA

"The guy on the bus isn't using his relationship with my group as part of his plea bargain to escape prison"

Fair enough..

[madmans]

Side effects of AA

if your going to quote me get your facts right mate! didn't say the above, but then facts don't count. say what you want now i wont be back on this thread.

[Longshot]

Side effects of AA

madmans;1077334 wrote: if your going to quote me get your facts right mate! didn't say the above, but then facts don't count. say what you want now i wont be back on this thread.

I quoted you, AA literature and the evening Herald. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. I fixed the tags. But you were already leaving.

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

coalfire;1077314 wrote: I asked him could I have a word with him. He said yes but he couldnt sponsor me because he was a man and I was a woman.I thought he was cracked. Sponsor to me meant sponsored walk or swim or whatever. I told him that I was here for the treatment. He looked at me and with a resigned world weary look on his face he said treatment? What treatment? He must have seen the look of horror on my face because he said look just keep coming back.

Wow, CF, what an experience! I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. The first time I called about an AA meeting, I asked the person "What are the 12 steps?" She said, "What are the 12 steps? The 12 steps are the 12 steps!" Really, not much clarity involved. Actually, we were living in small town at the time and the first time I actually worked up the courage to go to a meeting, there was nobody there and the building was locked.

I like you thoughts on an initial educational session much better!

[coalfire]

Side effects of AA

I dont know now whether to laugh or cry myself looking back on it. If it wasnt for MWO...well it doesnt bear thinking about.