Side effects of AA

[Longshot]

Side effects of AA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tPNgHrIkgo[/video]]Penn and Teller's 12 Step Bullshit Is a really great short eye opener

Oh and coalfire I spent 6 months banging my head against the door of AA, and even spent several hundred euro on a councillor who basically kept telling me "You should go to AA" . Back last October I was in pieces after a summer having my head wrecked by AA. I even went on a holiday with AA meetings!

That Penn and Teller documentary quite literally saved my life.

[coalfire]

Side effects of AA

"there was nobody there and the building was locked."

Ok you win. I at least got in.:H

[coalfire]

Side effects of AA

I want to watch that longshot. I might save it for after dinner and talk to you about it later. i love those type of documentaries.

[Guest]

Side effects of AA

Tracy

I will agree that the 12 Steps literature is pretty poor and completely unclear. I was given a book in a treatment centre written by a chap called Gorski who explains them very well. It's a non-AA publication, nothing to do with them but makes the 12 Steps relevant in highly useful way. The meetings themselves are very confusing to newcomers, and it would be good if someone would take them to oneside and explain exactly how it all works.

[coalfire]

Side effects of AA

ok tracy. point 2.

Psychiatrists. No I dont think one shot would be enough.

This is all based on the way I wish things were when I was young and scared.

I think it is important to tell people that there can be something lying under the alcohol.

Even someone to stand up and say that could be a start for new entry alcoholics. Every one of them in my clinic would learn of the term dual diagnosis and what that meant. They would know of the difficulties of assessing something when people were still drinking. I would have someone touch on the personality disorders,mood disorders,the different manifestations of anxiety disorders etc. I would have lots of books about them on display and pamphlets giving a quick run down of what some of them might look like. You know little booklets you see in clinics saying understanding hypertension etc? Well I would have lots of those. Someone might not know they have something but they might recognise it if they saw it written down.Some cultures are not comfortable discussing these issues.I would have loved to hear that discussed when my drinking went belly up.I think all alcoholics should have the chance to have one/a few/many meeting with a psychiatrist. I think AA would be better off talking about stuff like this and guiding people about how to understand it and make sense of it.

[Longshot]

Side effects of AA

coalfire;1077380 wrote: ok tracy. point 2.

Psychiatrists. No I dont think one shot would be enough.

This is all based on the way I wish things were when I was young and scared.

I think it is important to tell people that there can be something lying under the alcohol.

Even someone to stand up and say that could be a start for new entry alcoholics. Every one of them in my clinic would learn of the term dual diagnosis and what that meant. They would know of the difficulties of assessing something when people were still drinking. I would have someone touch on the personality disorders,mood disorders,the different manifestations of anxiety disorders etc. I would have lots of books about them on display and pamphlets giving a quick run down of what some of them might look like. You know little booklets you see in clinics saying understanding hypertension etc? Well I would have lots of those. Someone might not know they have something but they might recognise it if they saw it written down.Some cultures are not comfortable discussing these issues.I would have loved to hear that discussed when my drinking went belly up.I think all alcoholics should have the chance to have one/a few/many meeting with a psychiatrist. I think AA would be better off talking about stuff like this and guiding people about how to understand it and make sense of it.

It's a lovely plan coalfire, but you just aren't aware of how desperately short they are of trained psychiatrists in Ireland.

Waiting lists to see one can be up to six months.

[coalfire]

Side effects of AA

I know longshot but they estimate that one fifth of all hospital admissions are alcohol related and that it plays a huge role in suicides. Surely they would be better getting the alcoholics early. I have been drinking for almost 10 years. I will pay a price for that someday and so will the taxpayer. A few psychiatrists diverted early on to "catch" alcoholics when they first present and to ensure that as much is done as is realistically possible to make sure that they dont slip the net would be money well spent in my book. I would love to see alcoholics who are also docs involved in this line of work. We trust them in a way we dont always trust other docs. Instead a doc who is an alcoholic has to go so far underground its just not funny. We should allow them to get better and facilitate a way that they can talk about their experiences.Docs could change things in the way many of us could only dream of doing and the alcoholics would listen to them.Instead the stigma of alcoholism is so great that they sneak off to England or whatever and sneak back. I cant blame them-they have to live in society too and hold down their hard won careers but I wish more of them would speak out. People dont laugh so hard when you have a medical degree in your pocket.

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Longshot;1077350 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tPNgHrIkgo[/video]]Penn and Teller's 12 Step Bullshit Is a really great short eye opener.

It is, and I love those guys anyway. I have mixed feelings on the issue of whether or not there is something wrong with me, that always has been wrong with me - or if it's simply a matter of choice. I like the empowerment of voting for "choice." But it doesn't seem accurate to me. And, if it's merely a matter of choice, why am I messing around with baclofen? I know one poster who believes that she messed up her own brain chemistry - and now it's messed up and meds can improve that situation, or cure it (not sure how that works). Longshot, what do you think about the "choice" vs. "something organically wrong" arguments?

[Cinders]

Side effects of AA

I am married to a non-drinker. He likens my drinking to something "lighting" up inside of me when I take that first drink. I "come alive."

I think it is organic.

I think it is also a choice. One we have to make.

Too bad I can't just take that first drink. It is painful to try to do that, more painful than not taking the first drink. I think that is the difference between those who abuse alcohol and those who are alcoholic.

Penn and Teller are hilarious. However, they let you know up front that they are not addicts and know nothing about being addicts.

Cindi

[Longshot]

Side effects of AA

coalfire;1077402 wrote: I know longshot but they estimate that one fifth of all hospital admissions are alcohol related and that it plays a huge role in suicides. Surely they would be better getting the alcoholics early. I have been drinking for almost 10 years. I will pay a price for that someday and so will the taxpayer. A few psychiatrists diverted early on to "catch" alcoholics when they first present and to ensure as much is done as is realistically possible that they dont slip the net would be money well spent in my book.
Its a nice idea coalfire, but speaking as someone who's dealt with both the UK and Irish health systems for Alcohol, both are good and both are flawed.

but neither will give you what you are after.

psychiatrists are just too valuable to divert and spend in AE. Hanging around on the off chance a drinker comes in who exhibits the signs of alcoholism.

A person needs to come and ask for help, or needs to be in a place where their drinking puts their health in danger.




Colafire This isn't the way our health service works. And we can't change our medical practice just for alcoholism. They react to problems and issues, they don't pro-actively hunt down issues to fight.


I would love to see alcoholics who are also docs involved in this line of work. We trust them in a way we dont always trust other docs. Instead a doc who is an alcoholic has to go so far underground its just not funny. We should allow them to get better and facilitate a way that they can talk about their experiences.Docs could change things in the way many of us could only dream of doing and the alcoholics would listen to them.Instead the stigma of alcoholism is so great that they sneak off to England or whatever and sneak back. I cant blame them-they have to live in society too and hold down their hard won careers but I wish more of them would speak out. People dont laugh so hard when you have a medical degree in your pocket.

That isn't a doctor thats frankly a character from some feel good Robin Williams "Dead Poets Society" style Doctor.

You're not going to base a health service around a army of idealised dynamic reformed drinking doctors. It can't exist.

I've met some wonderful doctors and some wonderful nurses in the UK and Ireland and I've met some dire ones, basing your health services on this mythic Doctors is simply crazy.

[Longshot]

Side effects of AA

Cinders;1077423 wrote:
Penn and Teller are hilarious. However, they let you know up front that they are not addicts and know nothing about being addicts.

Cindi

There isn't a one size fits all cure for addiction, AA make it seem like they have the cure, and only AA has the cure, that will work for everyone, except the "hopeless"

[shirazgirl]

Side effects of AA

One of the last posts I read on HERE by Roberta Jewell is that she basically had no more time to post and interact here. It was in RESPONSE to my post asking of whereabouts. If you search the sight, you will find it. She self admits that she no longer moderates and abstains.

I encourage everyone to do what works for them. Meds do not work me. I work for me. My will and the support (face to face) of others who have suffered like me.

I think Tracy A. like to be adversarial. It is very easy to pick out her aggressive/passive comments. Doesn't work for me.

[tiptronic_ct]

Side effects of AA

Well now, Zennie...

If someone was to suggest Vegemite as a cure for alcoholism... I think that's when I would start bashing it as a remedy. That stuff is vile

[Guest]

Side effects of AA

Coalfire also misses out one massively, important point. How many of us would have accepted early intervention?Took me a long time, and a lot of heartache to finally realise I had to stop drinking. Until then I kept thinking things would work out and I could carry one having a binge every now and then. Addicts tend not to accept help until things get bad. At what point would you decide the side effects of Baclofen were worth it?taking 10-20 pills a day? Not everyone would agree to that, they'd say "Ah but I'm not that bad, I'll be ok without any pills thank-you very much". I've known someone who would drink non-stop for several days at a time, seen them throwing up blood, not able to work or drive, become unkempt and abusive, then say they weren't an alcoholic, they just liked to treat themselves after working hard. They turned down offers of help, wouldn't go to their Dr or access other support options including counselling.

How on earth are people like that going to be caught early?

If someone had come up to you 10 years ago, told you you were showing early signs of alcoholism, would you have said "Ah yes, of course give me whatever treatment you have to prevent it going further".

I very much doubt it. I would have told them I was simply a party animal, bugger off thank-you. Before charging off to my next all weekender.

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Ukblonde;1077445 wrote: At what point would you decide the side effects of Baclofen were worth it?taking 10-20 pills a day?

Even now, in my case, the jury is still pretty much out on that. But, I tend to agree. "Prevention" has proved to be pretty much useless so far.