Side effects of AA

[Longshot]

Side effects of AA

Hmmmm I have to admit, I have a bee in my bonnet over this case,

A therapist pushed me towards AA. Medical professionals pushed me towards AA. Many knew of my own childhood issues. The idea that I'd share a room with a man who violated a 5 year old boy is obscene, that I'd share my most intimidate and painful moments in my recovery with a man who was using AA as a part of his campaign to escape prison is a violation.

I didn't pick this case out of thin air, this man would be attending meetings in my locale.

Tracy AA works for many decent people. I avoided this thread for as long as possible, and am sorry I got stuck in. It's not appropriate for this forum.

[Otter]

Side effects of AA

Can I butt in for a moment.

I think I should go back to the beginning now and change the nature of the thread. It dawned on me that the real point is that AA should be embracing Baclofen. I believe that is what Bill W. would have wanted. I think AA has lost its way.

Also, the figures on recovery with AA are, I think, worse than the figures for sponaneous recovery from alcoholism. As I understand it many more people recover from alcoholism just by stopping because of some event or because of their health and completely without any treatment whatsoever.

The figure of 5% represents the number of people who recover in a year spontaneously in any group of alcoholics who decide to stop drinking. In other words, he success rate of AA has nothing, statistically, to do with the 12 Steps. So, you could ague that the actually success rate for recovery attributable to AA is 0%.

It would be a bit like saying that the meds thread on MWO have an 85% recovery rate just by people coming here and joining in the chat.

Why cannot AA have a chapter devoted to meds? I think it would be a good thing to be able to meet up with other people on Baclofen and develop support groups.

So, let us change the tenor of this thread and see if there are good ideas out there for bringing this about.

[Guest]

Side effects of AA

KundaliniGirl;1077497 wrote: You know, I really think that if someone had taught me the negative health aspects of drinking, especially how it is linked to cancer, it could have made a difference for me. I'm very health conscious and never stopped to think about alcohol on a deep level as it pertains to a healthy body (until now). Teaching me this in high school or college would have been much more beneficial than a lot of what I was taught! I don't know, maybe they're just now understanding the link to cancer.

I have known throughout my drinking career about the health affects alcohol has -partly a result of education in school, as well as my own readings on health and fitness. I'm a walking alcohol units calculator and also know all the drink drive limits etc. I was the sort of person who would be disgusted at people eating unhealthy foods, smoking, drinking alcohol the lot. Yet I still ended up that person - minus the cigarettes though!

It didn't stop me drinking. I'd keep my units under severe control you see, but over the years it slowly crept up and I'd go into denial saying it was ok it won't get me until I was drinking what I knew to be a dangerous amount. I also witnessed a relative of a close friend suffer massively with alcoholism, I swore I'd never get like that. But I did.

Result is that I'm not sure education puts people off. It didn't for me, I was a huge health & fitness freak full of the knowledge about all the conditions alcohol can cause.

[Guitarista]

Side effects of AA

I think also, that it would be great to harness the energy of this thread, and for passionate folk's to take it upon ourselves, into getting out there, in our respective communities, and questioning our medical professional's, and educating them with the treatment alternatives, such as baclofen, holistic treatment's, and broaden their horizon's to the possibilities, and treatment option's that are less well known. I work as an outreach worker in my local community, and a couple of the folk i work with are problem drinker's. This brings me into contact with G.P's, where i can talk about/discuss treatment approaches/option's with them. I can suggest researching various treatment option's at least.
I encourage you all to get out there, roll your sleeves up, and talk, talk, talk, about the various treatment possibilities and options in your local community. Not just here. Get treatment options debated. Visit other internet forum's, and/or set up community meeting's, discussion's, if you are confident in doing so. (yep, i know, start a different thread you eeedgit. Will do.)

Harness the energy here, and get the alcohol treatment debate out there.

Will those who are able, consider such action?

[Cinders]

Side effects of AA

Guitarista;1077690 wrote: I think also, that it would be great to harness the energy of this thread, and for passionate folk's to take it upon ourselves, into getting out there, in our respective communities, and questioning our medical professional's, and educating them with the treatment alternatives, such as baclofen, holistic treatment's, and broaden their horizon's to the possibilities, and treatment option's that are less well known. I work as an outreach worker in my local community, and a couple of the folk i work with are problem drinker's. This brings me into contact with G.P's, where i can talk about/discuss treatment approaches/option's with them. I can suggest researching various treatment option's at least.
I encourage you all to get out there, roll your sleeves up, and talk, talk, talk, about the various treatment possibilities and options in your local community. Not just here. Get treatment options debated. Visit other internet forum's, and/or set up community meeting's, discussion's, if you are confident in doing so. (yep, i know, start a different thread you eeedgit. Will do.)

Harness the energy here, and get the alcohol treatment debate out there.

Will those who are able, consider such action?

Mr G.

I did such with a doctor at home. He told me "addiction doesn't change" and I told him, "treatments for addiction are."

At the end of the day, I paid for an office visit that went nowhere BUT I also explained to him that there are many options out there for us alcoholics and what websites where he could go.

Yes. I rolled up my sleeves, I spoke and got nowhere for me. But I imagine his mind is perking on the opportunities.

I hope so, at least.

Cindi

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Otter;1077669 wrote:
Why cannot AA have a chapter devoted to meds? I think it would be a good thing to be able to meet up with other people on Baclofen and develop support groups.

So, let us change the tenor of this thread and see if there are good ideas out there for bringing this about.

Otter, the chapter "To the Wives" is a terribly misogynist piece of poo that should be a massive embarrassment to AA, and they have refused to remove despite a great deal of internal pressure to do so. It is their Bible; in their minds, it is a work inspired by God. You might as well be requesting that the Bible be changed to include information on evolution. You would be asking that they put aside the foundation, the very thesis, of AA - that alcoholism is a "spiritual malady." It is NOT going to happen. Here is the info:

MAILING ADDRESS:
A.A. World Services, Inc.,
P.O. Box 459,
New York, NY 10163
(212) 870-3400

If you want people to walk into an AA meeting and start talking about baclofen, I suggest you try it first. Let us know how it goes. I suspect that what you've seen in this thread would pale in comparison.

Good luck bringing the two together. And, remember this: The Bill W. in the latter years was a very different man than the one who wrote the book. He watched what was happening to AA, and he was happy to keep that boat afloat. One thing that might be helpful, in understanding the man, would be to read the 12 X 12. Bill W wrote that too, and I think you might get an idea of why meds will never be welcome in AA. That book fully reveals the shame-based religiosity upon which the organization is based.

Good luck.

[AllyB]

Side effects of AA

Otter;1077669 wrote: Why cannot AA have a chapter devoted to meds?

How would the AAWS make any money or gain any power from that? The AAWS are not even remotely interested in freeing people from addiction. They are all about getting as many members as possible, convincing them they need to stay in AA for the rest of their lives and then selling them books and magazines at enormous profit. They will never have any interest in baclofen and will fight against it however they can because if baclofen becomes the standard nobody will want their publications.

[Otter]

Side effects of AA

I agree. I suppose what is bugging me is that with all the energy to post here why is this not translating into some real action somehow.

I must admit it is difficult. The problem is that as soon as you mention this to anyone they think a number of things; that you are an alcoholic, that you think they are an alcoholic, that you are crazy.

That is why I think getting AA involved in this is a good idea because it is still anonymous and part of the target audience. And I think it would be great to get people who really have recovered to spread the word.

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Guitarista;1077690 wrote:
I encourage you all to get out there, roll your sleeves up, and talk, talk, talk, about the various treatment possibilities and options in your local community. Not just here. Get treatment options debated. Visit other internet forum's, and/or set up community meeting's, discussion's, if you are confident in doing so. (yep, i know, start a different thread you eeedgit. Will do.)

Harness the energy here, and get the alcohol treatment debate out there.

Will those who are able, consider such action?

Sure. You cannot discuss baclofen on other forums though. Even soberrecovery.com will not allow it (I've never tried but looked up the posts of those who did. L0op was involved in one such discussion). And I would not attempt selling something like that until I had at least one year of sobriety anyway.

[Cinders]

Side effects of AA

TracyA;1077708 wrote: Otter, the chapter "To the Wives" is a terribly misogynist piece of poo that should be a massive embarrassment to AA, and they have refused to remove despite a great deal of internal pressure to do so. It is their Bible; in their minds, it is a work inspired by God. You might as well be requesting that the Bible be changed to include information on evolution. You would be asking that they put aside the foundation, the very thesis, of AA - that alcoholism is a "spiritual malady." It is NOT going to happen. Here is the info:

MAILING ADDRESS:
A.A. World Services, Inc.,
P.O. Box 459,
New York, NY 10163
(212) 870-3400

If you want people to walk into an AA meeting and start talking about baclofen, I suggest you try it first. Let us know how it goes. I suspect that what you've seen in this thread would pale in comparison.

Good luck bringing the two together. And, remember this: The Bill W. in the latter years was a very different man than the one who wrote the book. He watched what was happening to AA, and he was happy to keep that boat afloat. One thing that might be helpful, in understanding the man, would be to read the 12 X 12. Bill W wrote that too, and I think you might get an idea of why meds will never be welcome in AA. That book fully reveals the shame-based religiosity upon which the organization is based.

Good luck.

Oh wow. I said I would not post here anymore and yet here I am.

When I told my home group at AA about Baclofen, they were very receptive.

I just don't get this hate for AA.

I simply do not get it.

I don't go to AA anynore, and I won't but my friends there were so kind and so caring.

You guys must have had a horrible group.

I never did.

Kind, caring and loving. That is all I ever felt.

Cindi

[coalfire]

Side effects of AA

I dont believe that anything will change until a large scale clinical trial of Baclofen is published that shows it to be effective. Am I right in thinking that that wont happen for a few years. However if and I stress if the medical profession stand up and say ok folks we have it. Baclofen is 80% effective then how can AA/smart/RR stand in their way? They cant argue against the medical profession worldwide. Anyway new alkies wouldnt go to them any more. They will go to their docs for a prescription instead.The whole AA rehab scene would crumble away naturally like typewriters or something. Time will tell and the truth will out in the end I think.

[Otter]

Side effects of AA

The point is that there is a vehicle out there for disseminating information.

I disagree that it is impossible to get people to change. All anyone needs is a real living example of it working.

A lot of movements have succeeded by taking over an existing structure of an older organization. Churches in England are usually built on older worship grounds and usually have an ancient Yew tree in their grounds. I had thought of going to Alanon and getting them involved but I seem to have now got a lot of people involved by complete accident and they are very supportive, if not disbelieving, of the idea. I mentioned it to our staff welfare officer and she took the name of our doctor to recommend other staff to if they have drink problems. So, every little bit helps spread the word.

Actually, the more I think about it, if AA does not accept Baclofen they could find themselves out of business. If they saw how positive the spirit was on this forum I think they would welcome it into their program. Anyway, who actually goes to AA because of Bill W.'s philosophy. You go for the chat and the support... oh, yes, and the drink afterwards.

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Okay, I admit, I have a fantasy about walking into an AA meeting and talking about baclofen. It seems to me that it would be invasive though, like walking into Mass and talking about evolution. Still, I'll try anything once! I need the switch first though. I need to know, for some substantial amount of time, that part of it is real.

But, I can see going from there to creating a little support group from home. I think that would happen. I really, really do. But it would not likely happen IN an AA meeting. That would just be a good place to find people who are willing to try it, who need it.

But, I wouldn't consider myself a recovery expert on all the meds and couldn't go there.

Still, there's possibilities here. Hmmm.

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

coalfire;1077739 wrote: However if and I stress if the medical profession stand up and say ok folks we have it. Baclofen is 80% effective then how can AA/smart/RR stand in their way?

It's really tough. I think trying to approach one's own GP, with Florie's idea of a contract, would at least educate them that there are other ways of skinning this cat. I need to find some template of a contract to use, to try on my newbie doc.

[Guest]

Side effects of AA

Actually there is place for rehabs in all of this - to supervise Baclofen. There will always be people who want to be guided, especially through the side effects of this medication. This will allow for titration in a protected environment,along with rehabilitation either in the form of counselling, or simply advice on rebuilding lives, healthy living. All sorts of things recovering alcoholics need.

Home detoxes would entail daily visits/support and guidance with doses, managing side effects. The opportunities are endless. Remember the medical community are hardly likely to send patients home with an unlimited supply of pills and say "just titrate up until you hit the switch". It will involve careful planning, monitoring etc.

Endless business opportunities exist.