Side effects of AA

[Guest]

Side effects of AA

The issue about changing important, or major things within the first year of sobriety was discussed in several of my local meetings. It was concluded that it can be good advice, but generally common sense has to be used. In some situations things need to be changed immediately, to not do so would be very harmful. In others changes are required in order to acheive sobriety in the first place. For myself I had an idea I should avoid relationships since they can put pressure on myself, and contribute to my drinking. So when I got sober last year I decided to avoid relationships full stop, for the sake of maintaining my sobriety. Then I met someone who was very keen on me. I was very wary since staying sober was the most important thing in my life. He reassured me that he would only ever love and care for me, that everything would be ok, he'd never hurt me. He also was a person who couldn't grasp why being in a loving relationship would ever cause any detrimental effects. So I went ahead. The same old head games started with me, and then he brought into play a complication from his side. With my head running away I was unable to recognise how this 3rd element was going to affect me, couldn't stand up for myself on the matter and lo and behold I was going into a very dark place. Combine this with a house move, as well as strong cravings and it was a recipe for relapse.

I know I can't get into another relationship until I've learned more about myself, and am able to assert myself within a relationship properly. Something I've never been able to do, and has been my downfall leading me into all sorts of trouble and danger.

To me it's all about being aware of the risks, pitfalls and benefits of any situation as well as seeing things for what they are. The person who brought discussion of this topic to the fore was long-term sober to the tune of over 10 years, very experienced in the fellowship but often questioned rules like this one. It sounds as if there are some sticklers out there and it's a pity more aren't as questioning as that person.

I also had someone else, not a follower of AA tell me to give up my job, stay at home, give up relationships and anything else external. That was how he got sober. So it's not just confined to AA at all.

[redhead77]

Side effects of AA

Ally B,

I think it is my time to weigh in here. I read the statement regarding pregnancy last night and it has been bothering me ever since. I help with the Moms on bac thread too, so being a Mom on bac, and all the other Moms that read it, are of my utmost concern.

Did you actually read that pregnant rats on bac have offspring that have heart defects? I can't find it anywhere in the literature. What they do have is ventral hernias and occasionally bone malformations, at 13 times the safe dose of a human. The FDA considers the safe dose to be 80 mg/day. So, by my calculations that would be 1040 mg/day. I have not seen anyone who has been on that kind of dose with oral baclofen. Not even close.


Of the anecdotal reports of women taking baclofen during pregnancy (there are not many I admit), not one of those women has delivered an infant with a birth defect. Every baby has been normal at every stage of development by 12 months. When they stop measuring if normal.

Class C drugs are prescribed to women, every day during pregnancy. Actually, my OB and I had a discussion about this during one of my pregnancies. Most drugs it turns out are safe. Class D and X are absolutely not. If bac could be linked to a birth defect in an infant, it would be class D.

Now, please don't think I'm advocating for pregnant women to take drugs. I think that the least amount of anything taken in pregnancy is the best. But what about all the women who can't stop drinking during pregnancy? We have a public health issue with FAS and FAE. Many alcoholic women are unable to stop drinking when they find out they are pregnant. Even with the socially approved methods (AA). What then? Is having a ventral hernia worse than profound brain damage? A hernia that "might" occur at a dose far above what she would need to cut down or quit during her pregnancy?

I feel for all alcoholics, but particularily the alcoholic mother or mother to be. I am an alcoholic mother. I know the judgement one gets from society. I am also aware that if a woman can't quit drinking, she will potentially give birth to a physically deformed and mentally retarded child. She may then go on to raise a human being who is forever screwed up, and unable to contribute to society the way they were meant to. Possibly becoming alcoholic themselves. If she doesn't kill herself in the process.

I actually hope down the road that baclofen becomes an option for the mother who can't quit drinking during pregnancy.

[redhead77]

Side effects of AA

One last thing. I really thought that baclofen couldn't be safe a nursing newborn. We all know breast is best. It turns out, again not enough research, but what has been done is promising. I figured bac is a CNS depressant, therefore, it is likely to cause apnea in a newborn. It turns out in measurements of baclofen in breast milk at various hours after ingestion by the mother, that it is safe. Per the American Academy of Pediatrics. Interesting stuff for sure.

[catch22]

Side effects of AA

Otter;1079528 wrote:

I wonder if there is an award for best forums because MWO meds threads should win it.

lol... is there a competition now on mwo!!!!

I think the laughing out loud thread should win.......:H

[Otter]

Side effects of AA

I actually made that comment seriously. High dose baclofen is a profoundly important discovery. It has allowed people here to have a life. I don't know of any other forum like this and with the kind of spirit found here.

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Otter;1080121 wrote: I don't know of any other forum like this and with the kind of spirit found here.

I was looking at some of the arguing this morning and thinking about that. The people who are frequent posters in the meds forum aren't likely to hook up for a group-think. They're all delightfully individualistic. Newer people sometimes struggle to find the group's norms and mores, and there really aren't any! Kinda fun, I think.

[gyco]

Side effects of AA

hi gang, i made a comment earlier in this thread, i find it odd that many on this Bac thread would suggest that Bac is the new wonder drug of the future, or so this is how i interpret it,, i said if it works, use it,as far as being dislexic, this is probably one of the only places i don t have to watch my grammer, as far as AA, i ve been in and mostly out of it, over the last 12 years, but i know the history of it quite well, and the history of the makers of the AA way, it is another alternatve to life, if one chooses that way, you only have read bill and bob s history, and i beleive both are in the book, i don t attend AA anymore, it was not for me, as the book suggests, it is not for all, again if Bac works for you, use it, or any other drug that s available, it will be interesting to see what the long term side effects you get from a life time of Bac over time, specially at some of the doses many of you are using to curb your desire to stop drinking, and Tracy there is only one reason one goes to treatment, they can t help themselves any more, and my last word is.over the last 40 years of drinking,there is but one way to stop drinking, and i know i can do it, just stop gyco

[gratitude]

Side effects of AA

otter,
I am late to the party(again). first post on this thread. but I did go back to the beginning to read the whole thing. great thread.
gotta say, you are a breathe of fresh air in this very divisive debate. and I love a good debate. you seem to have a very balanced point of view.
I was taught to keep this qoute in mind in a debate. "the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function".
that doesn't mean you can't use logical fallacies in your argument. sometimes you can sway your audience one way or another using these fallacies. the problem is how educated your opponent or audience is.
the debate for/against on this thread is littered with emotional argumentation and irrationality. dogma really. on both sides.
science is about open inquiry and repeatable results. going off on a tangent to support a premise is itself a logical fallacy and is used by both sides of the debate.
anyway, I've forgotten the premise already ( or was there one?). I'm off to reread this thread in its entirety and perhaps I can convince myself one way or the other.
p.s. if we all used perfect logic the world be a pretty dry and boring and your thread wouln't be as entertaining. grat

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Hiya Gyco,

I kinda miss the gecko, but I like the duck.

Gyco;1080150 wrote: hi gang, i made a comment earlier in this thread, i find it odd that many on this Bac thread would suggest that Bac is the new wonder drug of the future, or so this is how i interpret it,
I don't think it's really helpful either. It's especially not helpful for getting bac into mainstream medicine, and I do believe it deserves to be there.

, i said if it works, use it,as far as being dislexic, this is probably one of the only places i don t have to watch my grammer,
I love your posts. Sometimes it feels like trying to interpret the words of a wise man from another world.

it will be interesting to see what the long term side effects you get from a life time of Bac over time, specially at some of the doses many of you are using to curb your desire to stop drinking,

That is one of the big unknowns. But, I know what alcohol has done to my health and am willing to take my chances (also still secretly hoping it helps with smokes too. Dr. L said some of his patients have lost the cigs along the way too).

Tracy there is only one reason one goes to treatment, they can't help themselves anymore,

I think I like the sound of that. I think you are saying that treatment should be used only as a truly last resort.

and my last word is.over the last 40 years of drinking,there is but one way to stop drinking, and i know i can do it, just stop

That is the point of it in my case. I hope you drop by the meds forum occasionally. I like you. :l

[Guest]

Side effects of AA

Tracy I've worried about the long term use of Baclofen, at such high doses but whenever I questioned it right at the start of my usage I was told "It's a safe drug". I've been told that repeatedly whenever I bring it up, I therefore thought there was no doubt in this area.

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Ukblonde;1080211 wrote: Tracy I've worried about the long term use of Baclofen, at such high doses but whenever I questioned it right at the start of my usage I was told "It's a safe drug". I've been told that repeatedly whenever I bring it up, I therefore thought there was no doubt in this area.

To my knowledge, we really don't know what, if anything, long-term, high-dose usage would do. Using regular doses in the long-term, the health of people who use it that way is generally compromised anyway (MS pops immediately to mind). The high-dose protocol just hasn't been around enough long to know, and it's possible that there will be zero effect in the long run. So far as I know. I'm not an expert in the area.

[Guest]

Side effects of AA

Thanks for that Tracy, because that was my initial feeling about it but everyone just said it can't be as bad as continuing to drink. That may well be, but if we find out it causes some long-term health condition years down the line, well it becomes a cost-benefit type scenario. Right now we don't have any info and are just hoping it will be ok.

[gyco]

Side effects of AA

thanks Tracy i like you to, i m not here because i asked to be, i fumbled on the internet one day a few years ago, and found this site, remarkable, i thought there was only one way to battle this disorder, i even told my sponsor of this place, and he said not a good spot to be, i disagreed, i told him, many that are here MWO ,are just like many AA members, they ve found a place they feel comfortable, i beleive that is what addiction is all about, finding what we as youngsters were taught, might not have been truthful, i also beleive many in a professional position, don t want to commit themselves to the Bac ,naltrexone and many other meds, revolution, it would be a money loss situation if woman or man found what bill and bob stressed upon, one day there might be a pill,drinkers will no longer have to drink,OR WILL BE ABLE TO CONTROL THERE DRINKING, gyco

[TracyA]

Side effects of AA

Ukblonde;1080223 wrote: Thanks for that Tracy, because that was my initial feeling about it but everyone just said it can't be as bad as continuing to drink. That may well be, but if we find out it causes some long-term health condition years down the line, well it becomes a cost-benefit type scenario. Right now we don't have any info and are just hoping it will be ok.

For me, drinking did not only take my health in the future, it was taking my life every day of it, if you know what I mean. I just don't want whatever time I have left on Earth to revolve around AL. I've spent the majority of my adult life in that hellhole. If I can get through the next 20 AF, I'll gladly pay whatever dues bac and fate exact on me.

[gyco]

Side effects of AA

hi tracy you caught my attention, scientists, doctors and many other specialists didn t know what cigerrettes would do either,i beleive at one time they thought it was cool to smoke,people laughed at the drunks on the streets ,until they started to cost society billions, i said it earlier, and it is a horrible way to do it,painful actually, one just has to stop drinking, go through the agonizing pain of withdrawl, for a few days and hope for the best, gyco by the way this is a great forum