Direct alcohol substitutes

[Bill Gorton]

Direct alcohol substitutes

Murphyx;1077933 wrote: Let me tell you a story about a errr friend of mine. Many years ago he started using cannabis as a way of getting off the drink. Being an addict he was soon using a shit load, smoking it, eating it, drinking it. He was stoned from the moment he got up to the moment he went to bed. He was using so much his suppliers couldn?t always keep up with his demands and dope droughts were a nono, so he started growing his own. The spare room got turned into a full on hydroponics set up, but even that wasn?t enough to fulfil the demand, so he started taking trips over to Holland where he had a friend who supplied him in bulk. He smuggled it back on the ferry and Christ alone knows how he wasn?t ever stopped by customs. I think they assumed that no one would be stupid enough to smuggle drugs in an old VW hippy van, complete with flowers painted on the side.

But addicts are that stupid and addicts will get addicted to anything that produces a high.

Seriously people WTF?

Why so much anger?

Let me tell you a story. I had a "friend" who tried to start smoking pot again because he remembered when he smoked it before parties when he was younger, he ended up drinking a lot less. Only now, it made him anxious as hell so he ended up drinking more just so he could come down. He tried over and over to get used to it. Then he put it aside, and after a year of not touching it, he threw the rest out. He tried hard to become a pothead because anything would have been preferable to being a puking drunk.

I have heard of people who start smoking instead of drinking, and it changed their lives for the better. I wish I could be one of those people. Not everybody reacts the same to every substance as you.

[Greg]

Direct alcohol substitutes

I would not recommend that addicts/alcoholics use other substances as a recovery method, at most it would be a harm minimisation method to be used only in cases where people have failed to gain benefit from ALL other available options including baclofen. I know it would be best for alcoholics to not take any other psychoactive substance whatsoever. At most this was intended as information for discussion, not a recommendation to use!

I also do take the point about most addicts/alcoholics being unable to control their use of any psychoactive drugs. My own case is probably unusual and different in this way. I apologise to anyone offended/annoyed by this thread, and I would add that my own personal recommendation to anyone who asked me what to do about alcoholism would be to try baclofen and Antabuse together as medical treatment, or baclofen alone if unable to stay away from alcohol while waiting for the "switch". I would also recommend trying AA or even inpatient rehab before trying anything more radical.

[Murphyx]

Direct alcohol substitutes

Bill Gorton;1077962 wrote: I have heard of people who start smoking instead of drinking, and it changed their lives for the better. And I've heard of fairies who live at the bottom of some people's gardens.

Bill Gorton;1077962 wrote: I wish I could be one of those people.

I recommend heroin Bill. It's a great feeling and you won't need to go anywhere near booze again.

Greg;1077968 wrote:
I also do take the point about most addicts/alcoholics being unable to control their use of any psychoactive drugs. My own case is probably unusual and different in this way.

Greg, you may be able to limit the quantity but are you really controlling the dope or is it controlling you? Didn't I read on another thread you're now addicted to cannabis and another substance? What happens when you get off the cannabis? You think you've had some sort of success, but I just don't see it. IMHO, you can't start to think that way until you dump all your addictions.

[coalfire]

Direct alcohol substitutes

"You think you've had some sort of success, but I just don't see it. IMHO, you can't start to think that way until you dump all your addictions."[/QUOTE]uch:




Murphy im sure he knows that. We ALL know that but if it was that easy we wouldnt be here. Greg has already spoken about this.


"I must also add that I am now in the process of getting to total sobriety, so am now facing up to giving up cannabis and have already given up the Xanax (using a slow Valium taper, which is recommended to get off long-term benzo use)."-greg


He has said over and over that he used this as a last resort to beat the booze(13 months AF)and that his next goal is to beat the cannabis. He has also said that he is not waving the flag for this method but that it worked for him...which is good enough for me. Its not such an outlandish idea. The principles of harm reduction are accepted by the worldwide medical establishment. Look at the idea of sustituting methadone for heroin. Its all about the idea of meeting addicts where they are actually at instead of some idealised idea of where they should be at.We all know that we should be high on fresh air, fresh fruit and veg and free love..then the alarm clock goes off and reality begins. This article explains it very well Harm Reduction Coalition*:*Principles of Harm Reduction

Murphy I am only 51 days AF. I have no idea of how Im going to make it to 13 months. Its not too bad at the moment but I suspect I am on the infamous pink cloud. At some point reality is going to kick in and Im not ruling anything out. I am on Lithium orotate,low dose prn baclofen and prn antabuse. In the future- AA/cannabis/therapy?? ?My mind is wide open. I just want to get there.Its good to talk about all these ways I think.

[Brave Hearted]

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I am a little bit shocked ! maybe I am nieve, I have a al problem but have never taken any non prescrition drug and I am surprised that the use of pot is being suggested as an alternative to al. I acknowledge that we all have to do what works for us but I think putting ideas into already vunerable peoples minds could be very dangerous. Pot is still an illegal drug and it is classed as that for a reason, it is well researched and documented that it can cause mental health problems to nane but a few and can easily become a stepping stone drug . I think anybody considering this as an option for them should proceed with caution .

[coalfire]

Direct alcohol substitutes

Brave Hearted;1078188 wrote: . I think anybody considering this as an option for them should proceed with caution .

I agree

[Greg]

Direct alcohol substitutes

Murphyx;1078108 wrote: Greg, you may be able to limit the quantity but are you really controlling the dope or is it controlling you? Didn't I read on another thread you're now addicted to cannabis and another substance? What happens when you get off the cannabis? You think you've had some sort of success, but I just don't see it. IMHO, you can't start to think that way until you dump all your addictions.

I don't see cannabis or any other drug as a likely end to a person's addiction problem. Someone will very likely get hooked on the new substance, but it may be healthier than alcohol for them if they are in bad shape physically. I don't regard myself as having been cured of addiction, it's only harm minimisation, basically the principle of using one drug in place of another.

Brave Hearted, I don't recommend that anyone else actually use cannabis, because yes it does have potential dangers that can happen to some people.

[Murphyx]

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OK, my shipment of snuss has just arrived from Sweden and now I'm feeling a tad hypocritical.

Ignore everything I said and carry on.

[coalfire]

Direct alcohol substitutes

Its interesting to think about the way different people view sobriety.When I think about staying sober for ever and ever and ever I panic a little.I wonder how I am going to manage to be this strong willed paragon of virtue all my life.

Thats why I ordered the antabuse. I havent taken it yet but I need to know its there. Its like a comfort blanket in my mind. I think-well if the going gets too tough then I will take an antabuse and then I dont just have to rely on my my inner stength. What if my inner strength deserts me?


The same with the low dose Baclofen. I find 20 mg helps to relax me and I use it on bad days when my inner resources are low.


Thats why alcohol alternatives interest me. If I run into a wall in my sobriety I would much rather waken up and think that I had a kava kava or a cannabis toke the night before than see two empty wine bottles on the floor.

The way I look at it is this. I am an alcoholic so booze has to go for good. I have finally accepted that now.

I am not an antabuseoholic or a baclofenoholic or a kavaoholic or a cannabisoholic.

Im not looking for the sobriety halo. My existence is very real and very human and I am no litttle miss perfect.

Structurally I have a good life if I could just learn to show up and be happy in it.

So if I experiment with any of these things and they work for me then I would be as happy as the proverbial pig. I am fully aware of the risks of cross addiction. I have read a ton on it. Anyway like I said earlier its way too early for me to think about stuff like that.

I will do my Scarlett OHara bit.-I cant think about that now. I will think about it tomorrow.

[bleep]

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Coal, I'm sure you have said before, but I'm sorry, I can't remember - is there a reason you don't take baclofen?

Good luck and well done with your sobriety either way. I could never have done what you have done without baclofen.

[coalfire]

Direct alcohol substitutes

Yeah this is why (1st post)https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...prn-48569.html


I have been experimenting with low doses of Baclofen as an add on,the most recent being 20mg. I feel that it does help to relax me a little. I am considering going on it daily like Greg.I have only started experimenting with it so I havent decided on a final regime.You said that you couldnt have achieved what you have achieved without Baclofen. I feel the same way about Lithium Orotate. In a clinical trial 10 out of 42 alcoholics got sober on it. Lithium orotate in the treatment of alcoholism and... [Alcohol. 1986 Mar-Apr] - PubMed result

It isnt talked about much in MWO though except in the holistic healing section.

[coalfire]

Direct alcohol substitutes

An interesting up to date article on kava kava and anxiety

Does it work? Can kava help relieve anxiety? - The Irish Times - Tue, Feb 22, 2011

[TracyA]

Direct alcohol substitutes

I mis-posted this to the wrong thread (and it's not bac-brain, just ordinary brainlessness):

Ketamine is another drug that has been studied in a similar way (it's a GABA A agonist, I think):

Ethanol-like effects of thiopental and ketamine in healthy humans

Just as an aside - Last time I posted this, someone had near coronary, but there is a doc in Florida who uses ketamine to treat addiction. His approach is pretty unique:

Ketamine Psychedelic Therapy - Alternative Alcoholism Treatment - Eleusis

[TracyA]

Direct alcohol substitutes

coalfire;1078433 wrote: Its interesting to think about the way different people view sobriety.When I think about staying sober for ever and ever and ever I panic a little.

One shrink I saw said that children twirl around in circles until they are the dizzy because they like the feeling of being in another mind space, in an altered state. She said that some children like it more than others, and that I like it a lot. (I posted a while back how as kids my siblings and I would hyper-ventilate on purpose and then hold our breath in order to pass out.) She said that I was going to have to find another way to get that "altered state" if I was going to be happy in life. She offered no suggestions as to how to do that, but I thought her insight was really interesting! She also said that I am very aware of my surroundings and need to stop working in legal offices. She said I would be happier in floral shop. Insightful lady.

Edited to add: I'm really babbling a lot today. Sorry.

[Noelle]

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Ketamine is another drug that has been studied in a similar way (it's a GABA A agonist, I think):

Ethanol-like effects of thiopental and ketamine in healthy humans

Just as an aside - Last time I posted this, someone had near coronary, but there is a doc in Florida who uses ketamine to treat addiction. His approach is pretty unique.

Ketamine sounds like the craziest thing I've ever heard of. And Dr. Krupitsky sounds like a nut job (IMO). Doesn't one want to feel sober and not have something make them feel f*****-up? That's why I don't like balcofen. IN MY OPINION! But I'm not having a coronary about it. I just feel like some of you don't want to give up the "high" feeling. And of course, that's your decision. I'm really not trying to change any minds, just trying to open them a little.

DEA Briefs & Background, Drugs and Drug Abuse, Drug Descriptions, Ketamine Factsheet