Direct alcohol substitutes

[Guest]

Direct alcohol substitutes

coalfire;1080559 wrote: Double ditto.

It fairly well known that addiction of any nature becomes isolating, especially as life starts to revolve around a particular substance.

[coalfire]

Direct alcohol substitutes

Yes I agree uk.It starts as simple isolation but it eventually grows legs and becomes a lot deeper than that. The stigma of alcoholism played a big part for me.If alcoholism were such that you could chat openly about it then I think that I might have been able to hold on to my feelings of being able to connect with other people.Pre-alcoholism I gave out welcoming signals because basically I had nothing to hide. Now I do and I dont like people to get too close.After enough years of this you can start to feel disconnected from your fellow man. There is so little understanding of our condition and so much unpleasantness and ridicule of it in mainstream society that it is difficult not to form an us and them mentality.Luckily I have 3 people in my life who have held tight. Well 2 really and 1 to a lesser degree.I am polite to wider society but I dont feel part of it any more in the way I did in my pre alcoholic days. I am sober now but I will always relate to alcoholics way more than I ever do to normies except for mr coalfire. I grieve for my sociable pre alcoholic state. People talk about the drinking but the diagnosis of alcoholism goes a lot further than that. From the very day you realise you are an alcoholic you become different or outside of your main social group.It is inevitable that that difference hardens over time. It is as if you have an acquired form of AVPD although I know medically there is no such thing.

[Going Strong]

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coalfire;1080592 wrote: Yes I agree uk.It starts as simple isolation but it eventually grows legs and becomes a lot deeper than that. The stigma of alcoholism played a big part for me.If alcoholism were such that you could chat openly about it then I think that I might have been able to hold on to my feelings of being able to connect with other people.Pre-alcoholism I gave out welcoming signals because basically I had nothing to hide. Now I do and I dont like people to get too close.After enough years of this you can start to feel disconnected from your fellow man. There is so little understanding of our condition and so much unpleasantness and ridicule of it in mainstream society that it is difficult not to form an us and them mentality.Luckily I have 3 people in my life who have held tight. Well 2 really and 1 to a lesser degree.I am polite to wider society but I dont feel part of it any more in the way I did in my pre alcoholic days. I am sober now but I will always relate to alcoholics way more than I ever do to normies except for mr coalfire. I grieve for my sociable pre alcoholic state. People talk about the drinking but the diagnosis of alcoholism goes a lot further than that. From the very day you realise you are an alcoholic you become different or outside your main social group.It is inevitable that that difference hardens over time. It is as if you have an aquired form of AVPD although I know medically there is no such thing.

OMG I so know where you are coming from and to hear you say it OUT LOUD has brought me hope and a realisation that I can work on that part of my personality.

I have always had a struggle really and to be honest even before my drinking but I get that my drinking has made it worse.

I am currently working on my social skills but to be quite honest " I suck at this? " So what happened the chicken or the egg?

Take Care

Shas

[coalfire]

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Hi going strong. I dont think I have had a chance to talk to you yet on MWO. How are things going with you?

[Chi]

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This has been such an interesting thread. I feel like I have a lot to say but I just can't get it out right now. I have to work second shift today and my mind is stuck on some work issues.

That being said there is a book I wanted to recommend, it is called Party of One, The Loners Manifesto by Anneli Rufus.

It's okay to not only accept but also to embrace the tendency to be a loner. Check it out, if you order from amazon the reviews will give you a good idea about the book, better than I can at the moment.

[redhead77]

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I recently took my eldest son to a pediatric neuropsychologist for an extensive battery of tests. He is having trouble in school with reading and spelling, as well as attention and organization. He's also anxious and has trouble making friends.

He is a sweet and kind child. He is very sensitive and sees the world in a say that is FAR beyond his years. A way that some adults never achieve. He is exceptional in math and science and already does loads of research and study, and is making scientific logs of his experiments.


The neuropsychologist gave me loads of questionaires for his teacher, his father, and myself to fill out. They are testing him for ADD, autism spectum disorders, learning disabilities, IQ, memory, and any form of mental illness. The doc also spent a considerable amount of time interviewing both my son and myself. It's been quite a process and I'm waiting for the report.

Here's what I think the report is going to tell us: I think that he will be diagnosed with dyslexia, ADD, anxiety, and depression.

In other words, he's me. Except he's male, brilliant at math, and probably much smarter than I am. I think his IQ is going to be extremely high.

Can you blame him for not making friends easily when they want to play hide and seek and he's interested in scientific research, experiments and documentation? He's only in 3rd grade. How in the world can he relate to his peers? I see a child who may or may not be introverted. He can't really relate to people his age, so I can't tell. He's not introverted with me. In fact, he's always sharing his views, experiences, and thoughts.

I often think to myself that I have to find a cure for this disease. I know that my son is going to end up with it. He has all of the makings of future alcoholic, including the sugar cravings.

So I am waiting for this report and then I'm going to have to decide what to do with the information. Medicate or not. Definately, I will get him hooked up with intervention for dyslexia. How much do I want to make him feel like he's different? Although, he always tells me there's something wrong with him and his brain is "different". But is it pathologic? Or is he just different because he is, and instead of our society pushing that, and medicating everything, should we be encouraging and fostering his gifts?

He just makes me think that maybe what our society considers to be pathological and disease, may actually be gifts that the majority don't have or understand. His being different from his peers causes anxiety and depression. He knows that he's not acting the same. It's very isolating. I see many people on this forum are highly intelligent. It makes me wonder.

[Bruunhilde]

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Wow, this thread is a goldmine and I'm going to gold star it. Coalfire, you are a force! I am awed by your knowledge, consideration for others, your ability to elucidate in an organized and helpful way. Thank you for all the information you've posted here and elsewhere on MWO.

Welcome Going Strong! Give us your scoop! Everyone - Bleep, Tracy, Redhead, CF, Greg, Kimberly, UK, John, really amazing input, breakthroughs! UKB, love the avi.

It may be obvious that having social anxiety causes us to be more introverted than perhaps our nature would be otherwise, and therefore like Red's son, we develop skills outside of social environs, although I know this doesn't account for alot of other "junk" we carry and Red's son may carry which we see in ourselves. Red, good luck and best wishes for your son's diagnosis. He's lucky to have such a discerning mom.

My own version of learning disability, or social inabilities - it's a comfort and a joy to see I'm not alone, just in this thread alone I've seen a community I belong to. And since I feel as CF said, separated by my ALism from society and I don't feel a part of the neighbors and workpeople surrounding me, by my illness which is ridiculed and disparaged.

BTW, I'm not diabetic but I do look at most (overweight) diabetics as though they brought it on themselves, because their addictions often caused the disease. But it's not fair either, it's another addiction, right. And I'm on a diet to avoid going there myself, including the AF piece of the diet which was the primary sugar I consumed. And I'm judged by my work peers who are thin, because I'm overweight, so it's really the pot and the kettle. Can't wait to prove them wrong and get a new chance to be judged for being me vs a 40+ single female who must have something wrong with her. Like if you're not married, they assume it wasn't your choice. LOL

Chi, I don't think there's anything wrong with being a loner, appreciate the link, will check it out. I know for myself, my siblings and my friends, that while we have a tendency to be an extroverted avoidant (thanks CF for that term), and alone alot, being alone too much depressed all of us.

Have a great day everyone!

[coalfire]

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Bruunhilde;1080779 wrote: Red, good luck and best wishes for your son's diagnosis. He's lucky to have such a discerning mom.

Have a great day everyone!

Red I wanted to reply to your thread earlier today when I saw it but I wasnt sure what to write. I dont have any kids and I dont know anything about this area. I think Brunn has said what I wanted to but didnt know how.


Brunn thanks for the compliments. I think that Greg has done us a great favour by starting this thread. I think this is why I am so against censorship in MWO.We shouldnt box ourselves in too much when discussing alcoholism. I bumped into Greg on Otters side effects of AA post. We discovered that we were both interested in David Nutt and his quest to develop a synthetic alcohol. That led to this thread which led to a discussion about why we might want alcohol substitutes which so far has led us to this point.Threads should be allowed to meander I think and find their own level.I dont think any thread should be described as pointless and unless it grossly breaches the rules of decency eg contains links to porn etc then I dont think that anyone should call for a thread to be closed down.

Chi and going strong. I hope that you come back and talk. Thanks for the link to the book chi.The author will be scratching his head wondering why his book sales have shot up!

Uk. I prefer your new avator too. You look less sad in it. I hope that it is a reflection of how you feel in the inside.

[coalfire]

Direct alcohol substitutes

PS here is another book link.

Amazon.com: Introvert Power: Why Your Inner Life Is Your Hidden Strength (9781402211171): Laurie Helgoe Ph.D.: Books

[bleep]

Direct alcohol substitutes

red, I reckon, regardless of your son's diagnosis (and good luck with that), you should embrace the differences. Being different is a good thing, generally, a lot of people are flat out dull, and your son sounds like he has the makings of an interesting person. What a gift.

With regards to medicating if he is alcoholic, no question there. It is a weight off my shoulders that there is hope for my son should this turn out to be the case. The only down side I can see is that you would have to allow the problem to become evident before suggesting it as a treatment, unless the person is open to the idea very early on, which I think would be unlikely. For years, I regarded myself as a social drinker, not realising that I was creating social situations at an extraordinary rate to facilitate my boozing!

[redhead77]

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I agree. Thank you for everyone who has contributed to this. This thread is a goldmine, whether or not Greg, you meant it to go this way. Thanks anyway for starting something important. Many of us here have similar issues, and that shouldn't be lost. So I'm going to bump it!

Bleepster, I didn't mean medicating for alcoholism. Of course, If I find a way I will help him do that, down the road, but he is only 9. I meant medicating him now for anything they might consider a "disease".

[Chi]

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Red I say treat the dyslexia so it doesn't interfere with his ability to communicate with his teachers at school for the learning aspects of school, but don't treat the other stuff as a "disease". It's not, imo. He sounds like a very bright child and if he is anything like his mom then he's a lucky little guy. He won't need to be a social mastermind because people will gravitate towards him because he is cool and interesting, and smart. To me that is the bigger picture.

I also believe that low self esteem/acceptance and feeling "different" contributes to alcoholism and is at the root of the strongest psychological triggers.

[Bruunhilde]

Direct alcohol substitutes

coalfire;1080829 wrote:
I think that Greg has done us a great favour by starting this thread. I think this is why I am so against censorship in MWO.We shouldnt box ourselves in
I can't tell you how vehemently I agree. So much of the truly awe-inspiring content we dredge up comes from meandering off-topic. That's when the brain gets creative, and generates social interaction (in its way) for cave dwellers! I get tired of people who complain about it.

coalfire;1080829 wrote:
I bumped into Greg on Otters side effects of AA post. We discovered that we were both interested in David Nutt and his quest to develop a synthetic alcohol.

Hmmm, this is interesting and I confess that despite being a pill-popping freakshow of one, I always balk at the word "synthetic". Reminds me of over processed food and all the toxins in the environment and ... ALCOHOL which brought us here today. However, in the interest of a good buzz without the addiction, I'm very open minded. In googling the term, I find it funny that it's been 'tested on a number of volunteers' - I bet that's at least a weekly fest. Also, noted that the govt would have to approve it as a DRUG, which means all the AL lobbyists will have their panties in a bunch and it will never get through. Maybe it will become contraband? No, probably too expensive or not strong enough to attract a market of people willing to go illegal to get a buzz when they could actually get drunk and die instead.

Further govt approval:
"[] is unlikely considering Professor Nutt was recently sacked as a government adviser for the controversial comments he made about cannabis and Ecstasy."

Bummer. I'm sure if the UK requires drug classification, the US would have a field day with it. I can see the pundits up there now talking about preserving 'family values' whilst leaving incest/rape victims pregnant and without healthcare - and yes, somehow making synthetic alcohol a piece of the equation in whatever way suits their message.

Ex drugs tsar creates synthetic alcohol that gives buzz without the hangover | Mail Online

Red, I neglected to mention that your son sounds brilliant. He reminds me of a friend's son who has a hard time focusing on a conversation because he's busy doing extreme math in his head. Wow, is all I can say. I guess the issue there is that the child develops one side of the brain much more than it already is. We all focus on what naturally draws us in.

[Greg]

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Sunrise1;1129997 wrote: Infrastructure is our backbone. Hi-tech machinery, efficient and skilled workforce make a great combination to sustain our growth rate. Better environment and work culture add to it.

This spam has been reported.

[bleep]

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Is it spam though? Maybe he sincerely wants to help us with our laundry?