TOO Much Baclofen!!!

[Bruunhilde]

TOO Much Baclofen!!!

RedThread12;1081245 wrote:
A month into baclofen, I had gained 18 lbs. I started taking baclofen about 18 lbs. overweight. Easy to do on a diet of vodka, red wine and pastries. I've never been thin, but always fit and strong. Now I was fat, as noted so kindly by my mother. The choice appeared to be fat or sober, but NO!!! Of all of this, I cast my vote for massive amounts of L-glutamine and All-One. Good luck. If it happened for me it can happen for you!!

If I had your routine RedT, I'd have been 300lbs or more! And the effect bac didn't have (SEs) is one more marker for how different we are, but we ALL are so different. That's what makes dosing anything tricky.

As a person with a lifetime AL and weight problem, I am in a position to advocate large amounts of L-glut and aminos for carb/sugar craving suppression based on years of self-experimentation. It also helps with AL craving.

For me, supplements were not a magic solution but did help me feel better and gave me a bit of control because my body wasn't as big a problem as my addicted mind.

Both Topa and bac (low dose) at different times, when added to the ALL-One and other supplements including fish oil (very important for celtic genes) gave me control I didn't have without them. No switch, but definitely put the steering wheel within reach so I could reduce AL intake.

[redhead77]

TOO Much Baclofen!!!

Tracy, I think maybe coffee is talking about gynecomastia. When men grow boobs. Not sure though.

Red, should I call you Red, or should you call me Red? I think we need something to distinguish us. You can be Red and I'll be Redhead maybe?

Either way, love all the info you posted on your supps and weight loss. I too am very into that stuff and vit d3 is magic. I had my 25 (OH) D levels drawn and they were very low. I started supplementing and they are improved (not ideal), but much better. It helps with insulin resistance along with mood. And about a billion other things. I posted a link in case anyone wants to read about it.

Vitamin D Council | Understanding Vitamin D Cholecalciferol

Regarding L glut, I have tried to take it a number of times. Huge issues. The methane in this house might create a fire hazard, and forget about going out in public. Has this happened to anyone else and does it go away? I was wondering if I was having a "healing crisis", since it is known to repair the intestinal mucosa.

[Bruunhilde]

TOO Much Baclofen!!!

Hi RedHead,

Methane, :H, better put yourself out to pasture! Don't deplete the ozone!

I think you're right about the gyno, but what man wouldn't want girlboobs for a few weeks to play with?

Regarding L-Glut, never ever had a problem. And I have terribly sensitive guts, I'm the vomit/diarrhea/gerd poster child. Have you googled it? Every post on page one (I didn't go further) shows that L-glut can help you avoid flatulence with certain foods.

[redhead77]

TOO Much Baclofen!!!

I know Bruun. That's why I was wondering. I've tried to take it like 10 times and always stop. Thought maybe someone around here has experienced the same thing. Maybe, I could give it more time, but one can only go so long before leaving their house. Plus, I don't want my kids to move out! :H

[Bruunhilde]

TOO Much Baclofen!!!

It's an odd reaction, that's for sure. A bummer too. (Pun intended).

[RedThread12]

TOO Much Baclofen!!!

Hey Red: We could be RedH and RedT, or Tracy has taken to calling me RedFeather. I just love it that we're in the same color spectrum!

Are you taking the L-glute in powder form? Just wonderin'. I had a friend who bought the pills - horse pills they looked like. I could never have done those.

I'm mystified. L-glutamine is supposed to be specifically beneficial for the enteric "gut" nervous system. Might be interesting to do a little reading about that. For forever it was thought we functioned on the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems alone.

One more way we are all different, I guess. (Makes me think of Monty Python's "Life of Brian?" The whole stadium is chanting "we're all different!" except for the drunk guy leaning against the steps who says, "not me.")

[Ne/Neva Eva]

TOO Much Baclofen!!!

I am going to refrain from gushing. But just barely. because I think you women are super-effing-amazing and I love this thread.
I can only take it in doses, though (pun intended) because it makes me want to run right out and overhaul my life, which is already overhauling without my facilitating it...
I want to study at the feet of the happy monk. But I'd rather just follow in ? redthread's footsteps. Will you be one of my gurus? Which meditation and how and how often??? For newbies who are easily swayed and often overwhelmed, please.
LOVE YOU!
Ne

[RedThread12]

TOO Much Baclofen!!!

Yes. I'd be delighted to guide you through my version of what and how and with whom as a guide . . . don't have time just now and will need to do some figuring out because it would best be done if I could get you and anyone else who is interested some mp3 files. Or maybe I can find a place online where you can get good material. As Matthieu says, the idea that meditation is sitting under a mango tree emptying your mind is pretty silly. It's effin' hard work, but it would be awesome to do it together . . . apart . . . well, you know . . .

It is kind of a jungle out there in terms of teachers and techniques. I just know what I know, but I've been following all of this since 1987, so I have some ummm . . . perspective.

I'll get back with more soon.:h

[Bruunhilde]

TOO Much Baclofen!!!

(Raising my hand) I'm in! Would love to try to expand my mind and my life, I really need it right now. I'm looking out the window at the rain on a Monday morning, wondering what I'm going to do to spice up my life. My life dearly needs spicing. It also needs liberation and hope.

[RedThread12]

TOO Much Baclofen!!!

Info re brain training and breathing

I can't even find where I posted my explanation of the amygdalae and how they work and why we are so easily "hijacked" into emotional reactions before we even know "consciously" that anything has happened. A couple of you expressed appreciation that it helped you get a better understanding of that hidden (literally, deep in the mid-brain) piece of how the mind works. I've come to understand layers and layers of mind/brain/body function through decades of daily meditation, when I never knew I was an alcoholic because I never drank! :H

Sitting two hours a day on a meditation cushion has, in my experience, even more power to mitigate anxiety than baclofen. So part of what I understand is through direct experience, and part is that I've been following over the last 3-4 years the absolute explosion of knowledge arising around scientific studies that demonstrate that "brain-training," which is all that meditation is, actually alters the physical structures of the brain. fMRI's show it, clearly. We can and do grow new neurons (brain cells), we can and do create new neuronal pathways. The brain is totally "plastic," and ours are changing every day according to whatever stimulus is coming in and what we do with it.

I recently did a webinar with a psychologist named Daniel Seigel. His book, "Mindsight," is beyond awesome. If you're interested in this kind of stuff, he's white-hot at the leading edge, although there's a whole consort of scientists that have been working with the Dalai Lama for 16 years in order to bring this information into the scientific debate. Anywho . . .

Here's what Dr. Seigel explained to me about the simple (not easy!!) meditation practice of training yourself to observe your breath. That's the technique - you observe your breath in your belly, or your chest or around your nostrils (my preferred point) and train yourself to become aware of each and every inbreath and outbreath. (Try this at home and you'll be humbled by the mind's inability to remain anchored to the breath, but that's another story). The Buddha offered this as a primary technique about 2600 years ago.

Today it is scientifically demonstrated that the circuits of the brain that are involved with observing the breath are the circuits of interoception - being able to be aware of one's internal state. That in itself has enormous benefits. AND as the attention remains focused and "in the moment," it sends a signal down through the mid-brain (home of the evil amydgala), the brain-stem, and down along a layer of the spinal cord known as "lamina one." That signal creates beneficial changes in our organs and heart-rate. THEN that signal returns up through the spinal column to a part of the fore-brain (finally, we get to the "conscious" part of the brain!) called the insula. The insula is seen to "light up" when people are experiencing deep states of compassion and well-being. Enough of this kind of practice, and the insula actually increases in size and thickness, making the "contentment, well-being" part of the brain stronger.

It's not about changing the breath, or getting it to do anything in particular. It's just about training the mind the be aware of the breath. Those of you who are interested in meditation can try this. Jack Kornfield is an awesome teacher. His book, "A Path With Heart," is a lovely introduction to meditation. Jon Kabat-Zinn has been pivotal in bringing meditation to the medical community through his program at University of Massachusetts Medical Center called "Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction." He's got some books and also some CD sets that give full instructions that I would also highly recommend.

I'm a real traditionalist when it comes to this work. There are lots of great teachers and lots of great techniques out there, and, as with everything, not one thing is right for everyone. I stick quite closely, as do the teachers that I mentioned above, to what the Buddha taught. This tradition is known as "vipassana," or "insight" meditation.

Very, very, difficult, challenging work - to take on the habit-pattern of the mind. But the most productive and rewarding thing I've ever done. I'm always available for questions or to make suggestions if you're interested in pursuing this path. I'm no expert and I'm no guru. With all my "issues," I'd probably be dead if it hadn't been for my years of practice. But I'm happy to share any information that has come my way.

[Bruunhilde]

TOO Much Baclofen!!!

Feather, that was a wonderful explanation of the concept of training your brain through meditation to create a bigger "happy place" in your brain. That's an accurate synopsis for a simple child, right? Yes, I'm the simple child. The recommendations are appreciated - Mindsight sounds great, I'll check out the CDs on Amazon. Although I can't imagine spending two hours sitting on a meditation pillow in the zone, I know I'd be a better person for it, could I get there.

Yes, I'll bite off some of this and get a book. Thanks for the overview.

[RedThread12]

TOO Much Baclofen!!!

Bruun: the set of CD's that Amazon carries is good and well worth the investment. There's also a set that is significantly more expensive but also very, very good at Mindfulness Meditation by Jon Kabat-Zinn

In the end, it's all about whether or not we actually DO the work. The brain doesn't change by thinking about itself :H:H Let me know how/if it goes for you.

But if anyone is feeling bored on baclofen, here's a challenging endeavor!!!

[bleep]

TOO Much Baclofen!!!

Red, thanks for all the info. Some interesting stuff there. I used to "meditate" when I was about 17, lost the habit almost before it began. I put quotes around it, because I'm pretty sure it wasn't the real thing.

Yours sounds like it is - I don't have 2 hours to throw at this though, so what's the minimum amount of time I can do this on a daily basis and expect to see something, do you think? Obviously, if I saw results, I'd expand the time available for it quickly!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

TOO Much Baclofen!!!

Thanks, RedT!

I did some mindfulness meditation in outpatient group therapy! I loved that counselor. I can't for the life of me remember her name, and she left the practice she was with, but I've been trying to seek her out. We started every session with breathing.

Alright, I'm outta here to listen to how to breath!

[RedThread12]

TOO Much Baclofen!!!

Bleep: 20 minutes a day is a great starting point. It will probably be hard and frustrating, but that's okay. As one teacher says, "You don't have to like it, you just have to do it." There's a set of CD's on Amazon by Jon Kabat-Zinn that will give you good instructions.

Amazon.com: Guided Mindfulness Meditation (9781591793595): Jon Kabat-Zinn: Books

It's only $20 and it's really useful to have a voice guiding you - at least at the beginning. His practices are a little more "general" than mine, but very good. I think he may even have a 10-minute segment, if that sounds more do-able.