How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

[I-want-to-be-sober]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Probably people who have consumed much alcohol (and anxiolytics, sedatives...) tolerate baclofen better. It's different if one drinks 6-8 beers over many hours or a bottle of vodka pretty fast. Also alcoholics used to hard crashes are likely not that sensitive when it comes to side effects, because they know both physical and psychological pain. Ameisen was in the ER often after drinking till blackout.

[Otter]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

I think Ameisen must have gone through a lot of side effects but has deliberately not mentioned them.

How important is it in the long run anyway? It is easy on this forum to forget that we are talking about something which was and still is considered by 99% of the world's population to be impossible, ie., to treat alcohol with a pill. After millions of years of alcohol consumption we are at the beginning of an era when alcohol and other addictions can be treated medically. So, maybe Baclofen needs refinement. Getting the medical profession on board might be one step to getting help with side effects.

Maybe Ameisen should have written a book just about all the side effects he suffered before giving up on Baclofen and descending back into an alcoholic lifestyle.

REMEMBER, keep your eye on the doughnut, not on the hole!!

[Isolde]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

I-want-to-be-sober;1082519 wrote: Probably people who have consumed much alcohol (and anxiolytics, sedatives...) tolerate baclofen better. It's different if one drinks 6-8 beers over many hours or a bottle of vodka pretty fast. Also alcoholics used to hard crashes are likely not that sensitive when it comes to side effects, because they know both physical and psychological pain. Ameisen was in the ER often after drinking till blackout.

Maybe this is true of some. It wasn't the case for me. My problem with AL really wasn't all that hardcore. It wasn't so much the quantity as the frequency for me. Both prescription and illegal drug use was few and far between. I wasn't used to hard crashes and dealing with much pain. And my bac experience has been relatively easy (and I'm a woman). Normal SEs, much of what almost everyone has experienced. Nothing debilitating by any matter of means. Then again, I'm also not exactly a typical woman (I really can't think of a better way to phrase that) - PMS, cramps, mood swings, etc. - I'm pretty much unfamiliar with them. In my romantic relationships, I've generally held more of the guy's role. So maybe there is something in my hormones, physiology, whatehaveyou, that make me less prone to a lot of the more significant SEs that a lof of the other women here have experienced.

One of the things that is clear is that it's not possible to make a true blanket statement concerning this. There will always be exceptions and anomalies.

I also think bleep has a point - there's just too small of a sample here to draw anything that is really conclusive.

[TracyA]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

ignominious;1082491 wrote: OK I admit that the girls, girls bit was mildly provocative but really I'm impressed with the hysteria its aroused. Stop. I'll start again. Yes I was being blatantly sexist and I'm going to consider color coding my posts in future.

Not off scot-free. I found your post offensive because of the idea "suffering is part of being man," when - in fact - women have a long history of miserable lives and an early death due to oppression due in no small part to the attitude you presented. Women remain the hardest working gender on the planet, IMO.

Regardless of how your personal life works, it was offensive because of the way that you determined being a "bread winner" as being significant. In fact, the grand majority of the women who post here must work full time for living. Many are also single moms, and while single dads do exist, they are relatively rare. Dads abandoning babes is a common occurrence, but Moms abandoning them is really quite rare - which may very well kick it back to oxytonin.

I doubt the women who post on the Moms thread laughed at your "joke." I doubt your post made women here and in lurk-land more likely to post about their SE's. Not funny, and it wouldn't have been funny no matter what color font you used.

[TracyA]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Otter;1082532 wrote: I think Ameisen must have gone through a lot of side effects but has deliberately not mentioned them.

How important is it in the long run anyway?

"It" determines who can even attempt the protocol. "It" determines who can see it through. "It" has a whole lot to do with whether or not a person would be willing to spend a lifetime living with bac-induced impairment. "It" is THE problem with baclofen. "It" is the only the significant thing that bac has going against it. "It" matters. And, I've said this before, Otter. You have never personally experienced the high-dose protocol. You really are NOT in a position to determine the significance of side effects.

[Bruunhilde]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

I find it ironic that Is only had a mild (compared to others like me) problem and switched at 150mg easily and quickly with few SEs. I was thinking that the more booze you drank, the more bac you'd need, was a possible conclusion based on this test case of one. Obviously there are vastly varied experiments going on, one by one here.

I tend to want to draw conclusions for experiments of my own or by observing others (see above) but none of us should be doing so. Based on our own experience, we're experts. We are not experts for anyone else nor able to generalize about statistics based on bulletin board postings which do NOT show standardized questions so everyone answers the same thing and is prompted to do so in the first place. Women are often reticent to post things like that for the very reason they don't want to be picked on or taken issue with for their OWN experience.

I think the inmates were probably happy to experience anything that altered their reality, I think in that situation I'd be able to take 60 mg of bac no problem. It probably calms them too. Maybe the sex side effects change the prizon culture...

Tracy, you're awesome. It's interesting to consider where the people live who post sexist remarks like that. Most of the men I know say they're thankful they're not women saddled with the menstruation, pregnancy, childcare, single mother potential, working AND keeping house issues.

[Murphyx]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Murphyx;1082502 wrote: Anyhoo, I want to know how the side effects are different. Is it just a matter of the same SEs for both ♀ & ♂ but worse for ♀? Or do we have different ones?

Any ideas?

[TracyA]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Murphyx;1082607 wrote: Any ideas?

I'm not sure. Few pre-menopausal women have ever gotten to switch. The only one I can think off the top of my head is Ne (not saying there aren't more, and the top of my head is bac-shrunk at the moment). More post-menopausal women post on the bac threads here, but that could be due to a host of different reasons, so I dunno. Maybe the hormonal swings can make it all more difficult? Also, the two women on this thread who have reported relatively few SE's also use a boatload of supplements and really nasty green smoothies. I actually went shopping for some of their stuff today (All One, L-Glut, green pills, etc.) and discovered that all that stuff is a lot cheaper on Amazon.

As to how OA and others have managed to scoot through with fewer SE's, again, I dunno. I imagine that a lot of pre-existing conditions play into it to. A person with severe allergies would likely have a harder time due to the sinus SE's and due to not being able to use the common meds for that. A person with asthma probably shouldn't even try the protocol. A person with HBP should probably tread carefully. I would imagine that a lot of conditions that normally would cause little inconvenience in day-to-day life could become problematic on high-dose bac. This wouldn't be something I would try on someone who was elderly and weak, for instance. A person's life situation really would make difference. I most definitely would NOT want to be under the knife of a surgeon who was attempting high-dose bac!

[TracyA]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Murph, it just occurred to me - you're a vegetarian guy who actually has things like kale sitting around. Hmmm.

[Guest]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

TracyA;1082620 wrote: I'm not sure. Few pre-menopausal women have ever gotten to switch. The only one I can think off the top of my head is Ne (not saying there aren't more, and the top of my head is bac-shrunk at the moment). More post-menopausal women post on the bac threads here, but that could be due to a host of different reasons, so I dunno. Maybe the hormonal swings can make it all more difficult? Also, the two women on this thread who have reported relatively few SE's also use a boatload of supplements and really nasty green smoothies. I actually went shopping for some of their stuff today (All One, L-Glut, green pills, etc.) and discovered that all that stuff is a lot cheaper on Amazon.

As to how OA and others have managed to scoot through with fewer SE's, again, I dunno. I imagine that a lot of pre-existing conditions play into it to. A person with severe allergies would likely have a harder time due to the sinus SE's and due to not being able to use the common meds for that. A person with asthma probably shouldn't even try the protocol. A person with HBP should probably tread carefully. I would imagine that a lot of conditions that normally would cause little inconvenience in day-to-day life could become problematic on high-dose bac. This wouldn't be something I would try on someone who was elderly and weak, for instance. A person's life situation really would make difference. I most definitely would NOT want to be under the knife of a surgeon who was attempting high-dose bac!

I'm pre-menopause so how come you didn't mention me?

[TracyA]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Ukblonde;1082629 wrote: I'm pre-menopause so how come you didn't mention me?

Because bac has shrunk my brain?

[Isolde]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Ukblonde;1082629 wrote: I'm pre-menopause so how come you didn't mention me?
It's ok, she didn't mention me either, and I just posted by bac experience on the previous page, with Bruun even restating that I hit my switch at a relatively low dose. :H
However, considering this disclaimer -

TracyA;1082620 wrote:
The only one I can think off the top of my head is Ne (not saying there aren't more, and the top of my head is bac-shrunk at the moment).

- I'm not taking it personally.

[Guest]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

It's ok I have gotten used to assuming most don't include the little gal from the UK. I did have a thread but it didn't get much attention, which is fine but I'm still here and helping others quietly. I just don't draw much attention to my activities. Doesn't mean I'm not bigging it up in England, helping others onto the Baclofen wagon or even spreading the word.

[Guest]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Isolde I didn't even know, just shows how much everyone misses here. We simply don't all shout loudly.

[Isolde]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Ukblonde;1082635 wrote: It's ok I have gotten used to assuming most don't include the little gal from the UK. I did have a thread but it didn't get much attention, which is fine but I'm still here and helping others quietly. I just don't draw much attention to my activities. Doesn't mean I'm not bigging it up in England, helping others onto the Baclofen wagon or even spreading the word.

Don't feel too bad, nobody ever includes me when they're mentioning people who have hit their switch either. I'm used to it as well, and I'm very happy in Indifference Land, whether or not anybody knows I'm here.