How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

[_serenity_]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

I was *just* reading through all the responses on this thread: wow! I missed a lot while I was at work today! I can't log on to MWO at work (the IT is an alkie with whom I've had rather icky experiences in the past, and he would no doubt read my posts).

Here's my experience. I wouldn't call it "typical" (what IS the "typical" bac experience, anyway?) but it's mine:

I'm premenopausal, 42, female, vegetarian (ate meat for a few weeks earlier this year after 18 years vegetarian, found it unpalatable, went back to being a hippie vegetarian).

SEs? I had them all, I think. But none of them alarmed me too much, or were terribly severe. I had dizziness and nausea (that was the worst for me), forgetfulness, flashing lights, sleeplessness, somnolence, trouble breathing, audio and visual hallucinations, electric shocks, low blood pressure, etc. Most of those, such as the hallucinations, were fairly mild, and nothing I hadn't experienced with a bad hangover. In fact, I always compared my SEs to hangovers and found them to be underwhelming in comparison.

I hit my switch at 190 mgs/day, after two months, and never had a day in which I doubted the bac or what it could do for me. Ig once said, "don't be a pussy" and I thought of those words often when I was suffering from the worst of the nausea and dizziness.

I've always been someone who downplays any physical ailments, so I may be a little more like a man in that regard. All of my SEs had been discussed on MWO before, so I knew they were normal. They didn't alarm me.

[Greg]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Maybe males encounter less problems because they have been drinking far larger amounts on average than females and are therefore much more tolerant to "GABAergic" substances like baclofen? It's just a thought. In my experience male alcoholics end up drinking a far larger daily amount than women with a comparable history of alcoholism, possibly 1.5-2 times as much, and my real-life male friends with this problem are all getting up around the 20 standard drink per day level, just as I had been.

[_serenity_]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Greg--

At my worst, I drank a case of beer a day--24 American units--and I sometimes had a shot or two of vodka or sambuca on top of that. I could go drink for drink with just about any man and out-drink him. I don't say that to brag (how could that possibly be a cool trait?), but I definitely drank more than the "average" alcoholic female.

[Murphyx]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Aha, another veggie who had a relatively easy time of it.

GO VEGGIE OR BACLOFEN WON'T WORK FOR YOU. And that's been scientifically proven....sort of.

Just sayin'.

[redhead77]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

I don't understand it. I won't talk about my side effects here either. I have them. I am bound and determined to hit the switch, so far I won't let them stop me. I have not abused alcohol for very long, 2 years, and maybe 6 months prior to getting prego with the last kid. But my mom died a couple years ago of alcohol abuse (maybe) she had a heart attack at 56. She was drinking over a half gallon of vodka a day. Seriously. I look exactly like her, could be her twin.

She never had one instance of alcohol withdrawal, I am the same, but not drinking as much. Nor, did she have liver damage. The doctor's told me this wasn't possible. I agree, in the thought. I take care of alcoholic patients too. Never would I think someone could drink that much without withdrawal or liver damage, but we are so different physiologically.

I don't want to be my mother. That simple. So I continue to plod away, not focusing at all on the sides. I do think my supps help, but it's not a cure all. I may soon get to a dose that I retract my statement but not yet.

[beatle]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

I have been a vegetarian for over 20 years. And a woman for even longer. and yet... baclofen hasn't worked for me (yet), and I have very severe SEs (oh, I guess I should say that I verbalize my very severe SEs)

[Ne/Neva Eva]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

beatle;1082707 wrote: I have been a vegetarian for over 20 years. And a woman for even longer. and yet... baclofen hasn't worked for me (yet), and I have very severe SEs (oh, I guess I should say that I verbalize my very severe SEs)

:H thanks, sister.

One other thing that women didn't have around here until very recently? (nor the men, for that matter?)
Support in the way we do now.
Ig broke that door down with his own progress thread. Sure, there had been some before, but he let it all hang out. (take a look, peeps. It's hysterical and enlightening. We are all full of depth and breadth not portrayed in just snippets of posts.) (thanks, ig)

Hmmm. Redhead, you weren't drinking very much or for very long. serenity had a good bit of sobriety before returning to the evil bottle just prior to the bac... EDIT: Serenity was actually drinking quite a bit when she started bac. I made an error with that assumption.hmmm.

Greg, I don't know (still) what gaba-ergic means, but hmmmm. My husband is 6 inches taller, weighs 60 pounds more, and is an alcoholic. I often drank more than he did. Very often. And in this and many other things Serenity and I have a hard-drinking past in common. I don't think that's the difference. But maybe? hmmm
Another case to think about is the fact that Seethepony is a man. I think he was a hard core drinker, and he gave up the booze early on in the bac journey (less than 100mg) because of a particularly nasty hangover/SEs.

[TracyA]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

beatle;1082707 wrote: I have been a vegetarian for over 20 years. And a woman for even longer. and yet... baclofen hasn't worked for me (yet), and I have very severe SEs (oh, I guess I should say that I verbalize my very severe SEs)

I really appreciate your verbalizing. Sometimes I say to myself, "Get over it already! Look at what Beatle is going through!" I think the sharing is helpful on many levels. It certainly has been for me, both as a reader and as a verbalizer.

[_serenity_]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Ne/Neva Eva;1082717 wrote: serenity had a good bit of sobriety before returning to the evil bottle just prior to the bac... hmmm.

Just to clarify this--I had 10 months of sobriety in the past, but that was back in 2006. I had a period after that of the hardest drinking I've ever done. It was in 2007 when I was drinking a case of beer a day. I never stopped drinking for more than 2 weeks after that period of sobriety, except for a month when I was in treatment.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Thanks, serenity. Sorry that I jumped to that conclusion.

You are, I think, the best example of how to do this and do it well. You continue to inspire me even now.

[_serenity_]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Thanks, NE. I certainly hope I'm not holding my easier bac ride over anyone's head. It was easier for me, and I sometimes feel a little guilty that it happened so easy for me--especially in light of beatle's difficult bac ride.

We all have our different experiences with it, you know? There are some women (Katherine? and Sunny and others) who have hit their switch from the first dose, or at very low doses. And others seem to suffer so horribly. Longshot and c0ffee certainly had a hard time of it. I have no doubt that our different physiologies give us different experiences. But looking over the whole of the MWO crowd, our experiences are so wildly different, it's hard to make heads or tails of why some of us have it easier.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

_serenity_;1082727 wrote: It was easier for me, and I sometimes feel a little guilty that it happened so easy for me--especially in light of beatle's difficult bac ride.
It's not bragging, Sere. It just is. The question is, "Why?" If I were new to this, I would compare and contrast as much as possible in order to figure it out. Only to form some sort of plan for myself...


_serenity_;1082727 wrote: We all have our different experiences with it, you know? There are some women (Katherine? and Sunny and others) who have hit their switch from the first dose, or at very low doses. And others seem to suffer so horribly. Longshot and c0ffee certainly had a hard time of it. I have no doubt that our different physiologies give us different experiences. But looking over the whole of the MWO crowd, our experiences are so wildly different, it's hard to make heads or tails of why some of us have it easier.

I don't actually think that our experiences would be that different if all factors were the same. I know, I know. But the question, again, is what is different? I can explain Sunnyv. Katherine didn't give us very much to go on and didn't stick around long enough to suss out her info.
I also have what I think is an understanding for a bit of what is going on with some of the others you have mentioned.

It has never made sense to me that bac-treatment varies so greatly from person to person... It simply doesn't make a lot of sense.
At this point it is sort of an intellectual puzzle for me, but one that will hopefully suss out something that will help the ones who follow...

And also, I want to continue to formulate my own plan for continued indifference. There is far less info about life post-indifference than just about anything else. But that's for a different thread, I suppose...

[Greg]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

Ne/Neva Eva;1082717 wrote: Greg, I don't know (still) what gaba-ergic means

Sorry for not explaining better. It means substances that work by being agonists at GABA receptors; such substances usually have cns depressant properties. I was referring to both alcohol and baclofen, and suggesting that prior exposure to regular large amounts of alcohol could result in better ability to tolerate baclofen. It's only a theory, and because baclofen works via GABA(B) receptors this may not really apply anyway. It does apply more when talking about GABA(A) agonists like benzodiazepines however, eg. alcoholics able to take huge doses of Valium or similar while detoxing.

Regardless of the exact causes of differences in baclofen SEs between males and females I'd still recommend bac to alcoholic friends, I'd just probably tell one of them that it can have some troubling SEs since she's female and likely to cop it more.

[ignominious]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

beatle;1082707 wrote: And a woman for even longer. and yet... baclofen hasn't worked for me (yet), and I have very severe SEs (oh, I guess I should say that I verbalize my very severe SEs)

I never thought I would say this.

"Woman, you verbalize too quietly!"

NB. I didn't write that in jokey green color

[Murphyx]

How did Dr Ameisen do it without severe side effects?

beatle;1082707 wrote: I have been a vegetarian for over 20 years. And a woman for even longer. and yet... baclofen hasn't worked for me (yet), and I have very severe SEs (oh, I guess I should say that I verbalize my very severe SEs)

Yes well, in my theory of Vegetarianism = An Easy Bac Ride you will no doubt become a statistical outlier, or to put it another way :lalala: