Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

[ignominious]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

That's not what I'm saying Beatle. And I'm really not trying to defend myself.

I honestly think that some SEs can be caused or exaggerated psychosomaticsally. I understand what you are saying and don't think that a thread in the meds section will destroy the feelgood factor on the rest of MWO.

Its now rather late here which is the only time when I can get an internet connection for more than 5 minutes. So I'm getting rather tired

What I was saying was that

Baclofen affects the amygdala and the way we think
Amygdala is the home of many emotions
Emotions can cause psychosomatic symptoms

I think there's something there

[ignominious]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

Does this make my stance any clearer.

I don't understand why so many of you have reacted to this line of thinking as a personal attack. The closest I get is that you feel that psychosomatic illnesses downgrade the importance or gravity of said effect.

[coalfire]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

ignominious;1085986 wrote:

I think that you cannot ignore the affect that thinking about the SEs will have on the SEs

I have very little to offer from this point on. I took 25mg of Baclofen. I became constipated. I stopped it. i was fine. I took it again same,thing happened. Stopped it again. I was fine.


Then and only then did I search the threads and find out that other people had it too. So thinking about it could not have made it worse for me because I didnt think about it. I hadnt even heard about it to think about it. I dont know if sitting around thinking about side effects can make them worse.

I know that sitting around thinking of personal problems or alcohol cravings can make them worse but I can never think of an illness that I made worse by sitting around thinking about it.Hmmm nothing comes to mind. Usually if I have a sore throat or a cold or whatever then I have it or I dont.I am truly thinking here but I cant think of a physical thing that I have made worse by thinking about it.
I know one thing that I hoped and prayed would disappear if I didn't think about it ie-my alcoholism. That didn't work out too well!
So to answer your question-I have made my emotional/personal problems a million times worse by thinking about them too much but to the best of my memory or knowledge I have never made a physical problem worse by thinking about it too much. The truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me God:H:H:H

[ignominious]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

Concentrating on the SEs may enhance them. Not talking about them may leave people feeling they are alone.

I agree with that, its a double edged sword. That is no reason to ignore the possibility that psychosomatics may play a role in this. Especially on a thread with psychosomatics in the title.

[Guest]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

It's still different from this. Power of suggestion is when you tell someone something is a sign of XYZ. So Mr Smith having the same signs thinks he has XYZ. Psychosomatics in Ig's context mean that XYZ is caused by that something. So you have XYZ condition in the first place and are merely making the link back using logic.

[coalfire]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

Anything is possible in life and yes that is too.Think how you would feel yourself though if you posted about a symptom that you knew,just knew was so real and someone hinted that you got it because you were reading about someone else who got it first.If you had vomited all night and I said" tosh Ig-you know that you vomited cos we were talking about vomiting yesterday". Would you not want to choke me?

[coalfire]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

We keep cross posting uk. That last post of mine was directed at the last post of igs.

[Guest]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

I understood it completely.

I also know exactly what you mean too. I've got side effects that are a logical link on from the recognised affects of Baclofen, yet if I posted them here I know who would dispute them. So I don't.

[TracyA]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

Following your logic, talking about psychosomatic symptoms will create and increase psychosomatic symptoms. So, WTF? What's the good in even discussing the subject since the problem being discussed will actually get worse because the discussion exists?

Here's an idea: 1) Ig never again discusses any SE's, not his and not anyone else's. That way Ig will know that he is in no way making the problem worse. 2) Ig never again discusses psychosomatic symptoms. That way Ig will know that he is in no way making the problem worse.

And the people who want to post about their SE's here will feel safer about expressing the reality of their experience - and that is the really important part.

[Sunnyvalenting]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

I am late to this thread so will "tread" in anyway.
In one sense ALL symptoms are psychosomatic in the sense that we experience symptoms in our brains which effect our psychological experience of them. There is always a somatic (body) part and psyche (emotional) part (until we are dead!)
I want to ask tho about a premise which has thus far been unchallenged and that is that alcoholics have more side effects than others or something to that effect. That we have more going on in our brains. What is the scientific evidence for that claim please? I believe that it is important that we are prepared to back up such blanket statements with evidence, otherwise we may be continuing to foster assumptions about our disease which may not be true or helpful.
BTW, I remain abstinent on 20 mg of bac at night. Abstinent since mid Jan 2010
all the best
Sunny

[Otter]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

Ig,

I agree with this statement you made, "It really means that medical science doesn't understand the workings of the brain enough."

That is what "psychosomatic" means. It is all those conditions which we just don't know enough about to say what the physical cause is. Attributing them to the "mind" doesn't help because it diverts attention away from the search for a physical treatment of a physical condition and makes people think they are weak willed if they cannot cure themselves just by thinking about the problem or talking to someone.

I don't have a "psyche". I do have a brain. A small one perhaps.

[TracyA]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

Sunnyvalenting;1086140 wrote:
I want to ask tho about a premise which has thus far been unchallenged and that is that alcoholics have more side effects than others or something to that effect. That we have more going on in our brains.

I don't know the statement you are referring to. We actually have more bac going on in our brains though. If the FDA max is based at the point where serious SE's outweigh the intended advantage, then many of us are two, three, four times past that point. Of course we suffer more SE's and they are more severe. How the "psychosomatic" piece fits into that seems pretty simple to me - it does not, IMHO.

[ignominious]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

Coal - I have not and would never say that a symptom is 'tosh'. Please don't try to paint me with that brush any more. Imagine you are about to eat some ice cream and a well wisher can see a wasp on it and says that you shouldn't eat it. You hit him with your handbag because you thought he was being rude about your fat bottom. That well wisher might be indignant.

Sunny, I was postulating that, as a group of alcoholics, taking a mind altering drug, taking into account OA thinks many of us suffer from an anxiety disorder, that we have a psysiological chemical imbalance in the emotional center of our brain - we may, as a group, be particularly susceptible to psychosomatic symptoms. It wasn't a statement of fact, its only an idea.

Otter. We're on the same page or at least chapter, I think. Only I think that its useful to attribute these things somewhere. I underestimated the taboo surrounding the term psychosomatic but we don't have another word. Now, again, I will go out on a limb and say; as a result of this taboo, the treatment of alcoholism has remained the same for the last 50 years.

[coalfire]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

I didn't say that. I said imagine if I told you a symptom was tosh. Anyway last post for me on this thread. I wasn't even going to post this one but I didn't want to leave you feeling that I had painted you with anything. Anyway thats it-I'm done. Talk to you in another thread.x

[Otter]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

Otter. We're on the same page or at least chapter, I think. Only I think that its useful to attribute these things somewhere. I underestimated the taboo surrounding the term psychosomatic but we don't have another word. Now, again, I will go out on a limb and say; as a result of this taboo, the treatment of alcoholism has remained the same for the last 50 years.


Yes, I agree. Before brain imaging it was impossible to say anything about how the brain works.

If psychosomatic means those things that we don't understand then why use a drug to treat something we don't understand?

That is the beauty of Baclofen. There are other drugs which are used to treat alcoholism but their use if based on an incomplete understanding of the brain. It is a bit like hitting the TV set. It gets the TV to work but what is the reason it works. Electro convulsive shock therapy is a bit like that. Zap the brain and you get a result and some change in behaviour but no one undertands why that is.

What Ameisen discovery did was to flip alcohol treatment on its head. He noted that GHB mimicked the effects of alcohol ie, the date rape drug. Then he posited that actually it is the other way around and that alcohol mimics the effect of our own naturally produced GHB. Then he stated that Baclofen performs the same function as GHB so that taking Baclofen will stop you needing alcohol to replace the GHB that alcoholics lack and which calms the amygdala and Gaba B receptors. That is the core of his discovery and it sets Baclofen apart from all other drugs.

The result of that analysis is that Baclofen cannot not work. It has to work and it has to work for everyone. So, the side effects are just the price of a medicine that is making changes to your brain and restoring its equilibrium. It is not about the psyche or about Baclofen not working for some people because of side effects but rather about some people not wanting to put up with the side effects or not dosing in a way that avoids them.