Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

[ignominious]

SEs associated with high dose baclofen usage are common. Nearly all patents experience some SEs.

The diversity of SEs due to baclofen is extremely wide. Some are common to many, somnolence and vertigo for instance. Auditory and visual halucinations, panic attacks and others are less wide spread.

Its possible that groups of people experience similar SEs. due to a variety of factors, hormonal differences. physiological differences, psychological differences. One thing I'm certain on is that emotional factors cannot be ruled out when discussing the SEs of a drug that directly affects our thoughts.

I suggest that psychosomatic reasons could go some way to explaining why one person notices minimal SEs whilst another patient on the same dose is overwhelmed by the intensity of the SEs.

I don't think that it is an either/or question. Gender or psyche. Menopausal or not. In my opinion psychosomatic issues are a way of explaining many unanswered questions.

As a 'group of alkies' we are, compared to a 'group of randomly selected people', more likely to have a lot of stuff going on in our heads. Our minds are not at peace. For this reason I think we are more likely to have SEs exacerbated or induced psychosomatically.

Possibly all the talk of SEs on these forums goes some way to increasing the SEs. I would be the last person to say that "we musn't talk about 'so and so' because it may put of newbies". Moreover I believe in putting as much information as we have in the light so that individuals have the opportunity to make an informed decision.

There is a thing called the nocebo effect which is pertinent to this line of thinking
The Rise of the Nocebo Effect: A Psychosomatic Response

[Lo0p]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

I might have some thoughts on this...I could go either way. Till then I'm all ears.

[bleep]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

I've already posted a couple of times that we may have created a bigger problem than necessary with the SE's. They are certainly one of the focal points at the moment. The nocebo effect is very interesting, and it wouldn't surprise me to see it at play to some degree here.

The SE's are certainly very real, and discomfiting in most cases, but I don't think they should be the focus of the boards. If you look at earlier posts on baclofen, there are very few discussions regarding the side effects.

[ignominious]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

Thanks for the posts.

I agree that SEs should not become the focus of the boards but without addressing the issue they will remain the proverbial 'elephant in the room'.

Why do you think there was less discussion earlier about SEs? They didn't happen or the earlier folk ignored them. I think the latter case is unlikely, when people write about their experiences on this new drug they feel compelled to get it all their feelings out there.

[bleep]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

I'm not sure. There were some posts, along the lines "Taking baclofen, can't sleep." A couple of people would agree, then the thread would die. There seemed to be less posters as well, which would have contributed. They certainly weren't scared of them, or expect them to happen. I think as experience has grown, and shown that most people will suffer them, they have adopted a more central role.

Also, a lot more people blog their progress now, which is a good thing. Really, the only thing to blog about is the SE's, so naturally they get focused on, and in this respect, it's not a bad thing. I felt forewarned and forearmed going into my baclofen experience as a result of all those threads, so thank you to all who had done it.

It's tricky, really, striking the right balance.

[Greg]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

I remain open minded about this. I remember having a serious insomnia reaction (1-2 hours sleep only) and immediately blamed baclofen, back when I was trying high-dose treatment, but alcohol withdrawal could have played a part, although I was past the stage of acute withdrawal symptoms. I am convinced the insomnia was a real bac SE because I had no particular stress or issues on my mind when it happened, and I was expecting a sedative effect if anything, not insomnia.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

Deleted my original post and moved it to the appropriate thread.

I sort of agree, Ig. I certainly have had the experience in the last 24 hours of experiencing heightened anxiety because of the job transition, a doctor's appt and some looming deadlines...

I woke up this morning wondering if I'd taken enough bac, if I'd missed a dose, if the way I was feeling was a reflection of baclofen. Until I realized it was completely unrelated to bac... Bac has done it's job of removing AL craving, and much more for me. It can't possibly erase all self-doubt and anxiety from life however.

I know for sure that I had experiences where I 'blamed' bac for SEs that I was experiencing that in retrospect were unrelated to bac. That said, most of the SEs I experienced are well documented here, and not, imo a reflection of mass-hysteria or even sympathetic urges.

Case in point for me was Bill G's post yesterday about the SEs he was experiencing. He had not looked into the SEs to find out whether or not others had had the same reaction. And I haven't posted about that since at least last September... But there they are. And he and I have very different make-ups and backgrounds.

I'm not sure how to investigate this without resorting to a bunch of 'he-said, she-said' stuff, so I'll wait and listen and learn.
Hope it's been a good day!

[Chi]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

ignominious;1083361 wrote:

As a 'group of alkies' we are, compared to a 'group of randomly selected people', more likely to have a lot of stuff going on in our heads. Our minds are not at peace. For this reason I think we are more likely to have SEs exacerbated or induced psychosomatically.

I agree with this completely!

I'm getting ready for a trip and look forward to reading more about this, because I think you are right Ig. I'll use myself as an example... I had a bad day yesterday. I'm also going on a trip today with somebody who stresses me out to the MAX for FIVE days.... my anxiety is off the charts and has been for a few days. Coincidence that yesterday I thought bac was giving me anxiety? I doubt it.

[bleep]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

Sounds like a fantastic holiday coming up Chi. Try not to kill your associate!

[PbarE]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

ignominious;1083405 wrote: I agree that SEs should not become the focus of the boards but without addressing the issue they will remain the proverbial 'elephant in the room'.

Why do you think there was less discussion earlier about SEs? They didn't happen or the earlier folk ignored them. I think the latter case is unlikely, when people write about their experiences on this new drug they feel compelled to get it all their feelings out there.

I agree wholeheartedly and support this thread for that reason. I think the "earlier folk" downplayed them. I can only speculate on the reasons why.

Let's talk about them. We are doing something "unnatural" (i.e. flooding our brains with a muscle relaxer) because we did something even more unnatural (i.e. flood our bodies with booze and/or dope). SE's are to be expected in a situation like that. In the interest of full disclosure, we need to share that info.

The initial case study on this happened 6-7 years ago, and we are in the dark as to how that played out. Without getting into the "politics of bac", we are in essence out on an island by ourselves.

So our experiences take on added importance. They are all a prospective newbie has to go on. And the beautiful thing about this thread is that we have only one agenda -to be helpful to our fellow sufferer.

When time permits, I will weigh in with my SE's.

[beatle]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

I keep thinking that the SEs will become a thing of the past when some drug company finds a way to make a gentler baclofen (probably XR), which combines different medications (maybe even nutrients/herbs?) -- it's likely about to happen. Any ideas about OA's plans?

[redhead77]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

Gentleman,

Let me ask you something. I remember reading on almost every male thread about erectile dysfunction. You all seemed quite concerned and everyone was talking about it ad nauseum. Tell me, is that a psychosomatic response? It seems like these boards were consumed with talk about this for a while, and I don't remember any of you telling each other not to write about it because it may cause a nocebo effect. We all know this could scare many males and may cause them to think twice. Instead you just patted each other on the backs and offered words of encouragment.

Just a thought.

[PbarE]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

redhead77;1083745 wrote: Gentleman,

Let me ask you something. I remember reading on almost every male thread about erectile dysfunction. You all seemed quite concerned and everyone was talking about it ad nauseum. Tell me, is that a psychosomatic response? It seems like these boards were consumed with talk about this for a while, and I don't remember any of you telling each other not to write about it because it may cause a nocebo effect. We all know this could scare many males and may cause them to think twice. Instead you just patted each other on the backs and offered words of encouragment.

Just a thought.

CHICKS 1 DUDES 0

I am still laughing, red.

[Otter]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

I think if you go back to last summer there were very few people who had gone very far with Baclofen, a year ago even less.

There is a lot of talk here about side effects and people dropping out, finding the fuzzyheadedness a problem etc.

The big problems with side effects that might scare people have to do with withdrawal which is easily managed and avoided.

As I understand it, the Baclofen molcule has two sides, the right side gives the therapeutic effect and the left side causes side effects, hence, Arbaclofen (R Baclofen) which will come out in 2013 (buy shares in Seaside Therapeutics). That, it seems to me is how this issue will be dealt with and you will be able to take one time released pill in the morning to last all day as it is 10 times more potent than Baclofen.

In the meantime it is a question of making the best of it and getting used to the side effects as they do disappear and can be kept to a minumum by spreading the dose out evenly through the day rather than taken in handfuls a few times a day. That is my take on it.

[TracyA]

Sex, Age, Psychosomatic Influences on SEs of Baclofen

redhead77;1083745 wrote: Gentleman,

Let me ask you something. I remember reading on almost every male thread about erectile dysfunction. You all seemed quite concerned and everyone was talking about it ad nauseum. Tell me, is that a psychosomatic response? It seems like these boards were consumed with talk about this for a while, and I don't remember any of you telling each other not to write about it because it may cause a nocebo effect. We all know this could scare many males and may cause them to think twice. Instead you just patted each other on the backs and offered words of encouragment.

Just a thought.

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that this a very male-dominated thread.

I'm wondering when someone will explain how the bed-wetting is really psychosomatic. :H

I really don't believe people would drop off the drug in the numbers that they do if the SE's were not a physical result of the drug itself, as opposed to a reaction brought about by emotion. That would have to be a kind of mass hysteria - and I ain't buying it.

And I think the perception that SE's were not discussed ever since bac has been discussed is a skewed perception. I'll also venture that there will be no common consensus on what should or should not be the focus of these forums - good luck herding those cats.

Really, the purpose of this discussion thus far seems to be to make people less likely to discuss their SE's, which fits right into the agenda . . . and, yes, there is one - of making the "focus" of the discussions here be about something else. What exactly? What else would you like you to see? Why not open a thread about whatever your interest is?

I sat bemused at how the forum went silent with the introduction of this thread. I'm only seeing one direction this thread can go at this point . . . so, who wants to be the first to name this or that SE as psychosomatic? Be careful too - just because someone mistakenly blames bac for a physically-caused reaction, and then decided it was not bac, does not make it "psychosomatic" symptom.