Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

[Cinders]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

Florie,

It is not you fault or your worry.

We all post things we shouldn't and most of us are treated well despite of it.

Some of us, apparently, aren't.

I truly hope and pray your six weeks of rehab help you. I have done two 30 days rehabs (AA based) and an eight week rehab (not AA-based.)

I wish I could tell you they helped. Well, they did. I learned something from all of them.

But, at the end of the day, I want your six weeks to be successful. It can be if you really want to quit, you are willing to do whatever it takes, and you follow through.

I never fit into any of those ifs.

Love,
Cindi

[TracyA]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

Cinders;1088884 wrote: Okay, let me get this straight.

Tracy is all over somebody being upset over others accusing a person of relapsing that has not been confirmed but is rumored.
His posts are moderated on the French forum because he has posted in what appears to be a drunken state. Perhaps you can relate. The person talking about all that, who has suffered herself, personally, due to stuff regarding OA, is in a position of knowing. Quite unlike you. She has also already stated that it's important that the truth get out there too. I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment.

Tracy is all over somebody getting six weeks of rehab for free (because it is socialized medicine, it must not cost anyone anything, and no, Florie, I understand now that you sufferered SEs from Baclofen that you did not think you would.)
Tracy is NOT "all over" anybody getting treatment! That was you, Cindi. YOU did that. BTW, Cindi, and I realize you are losing track here - but I did NOT

post anything about you posting drunk. Since you have brought it up repeatedly, I'll admit - I'm suspicious. But only because I've seen this pattern from you before.

Tracy calls someone who questions these things and makes snide comments as "acting like a b@tch" which does NOT mean she is calling her a b@tch, just acting like one.

Yes, that is not my rule. It's actually how the language (English) works.

Murph says this is all "spot on," and it is okay and apparently Tracy is getting all kinds of pms from people supporting her.

The first accurate paragraph in your post, Cindi. Congratulations.

I am going to take some sort of drug that makes me really, really sick on purpose and get some time off of work for it.

Anyone get the dichotomy in this?

Huh????????????

[coalfire]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

[QUOTE=Cinders;108869



Sounds like a great vacation on other people's money.

Have fun.

Cindi
Tracy didn't start this to be fair Zen. Anyway Im glad its all sorted out. Cindi seems to have dealt with it herself. Folks this is very worrying news re OA. My OH nephew is in trouble with drink and I have just sent his mother the book. She is plannning to go to his doc this week. If this(possible) relapse becomes known among the medical community OA and his Baclofen will be attacked on all fronts and 1000s of people like the nephew will find things very hard with their docs.I think people will say its just another case of complex wishful thinking by another alkie, like Audrey Kishline and moderation management. I hope that the clinical trials of Baclofen are well underway and show some good results.

[TracyA]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

coalfire;1088905 wrote: If this(possible) relapse becomes known among the medical community OA and his Baclofen will be attacked on all fronts and 1000s of people like the nephew will find things very hard with their docs.I think people will say its just another case of complex wishful thinking by another alkie, like Audrey Kishline and moderation management. I hope that the clinical trials of Baclofen are well underway and show some good results.

Relapse is not only possible, it's probable. Most addiction treatment on the planet (not the US) recognizes that it's part of the process. Probably the worst thing OA did was pronounce it as a "cure" as opposed to a treatment.

The clinical trials in the Netherlands (since that's the only thing going) are going to go a long ways toward the global medical community accepting this as a valid treatment protocol - or not. It may be not. I don't know. But I know what was hasn't worked for me and am going from there.

[Florieanne]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

Cinders;1088884 wrote: So, Tracy, you have relapsed and you must go to AA. Will you? I doubt it.

I am going to take some sort of drug that makes me really, really sick on purpose and get some time off of work for it.

Anyone get the dichotomy in this?

Cindi

Cindi
I really wish we'd stop that.
And by the way why did Ameisen come back to France and survive and finally find that bac could cure alcohoolim?
Because of or thanks to our National Health Service. We are not responsible for your Health System being different.
Tracy and Bleep were here for me when I joined MWO because of SE which would have me stop bac eventhough I was already on sick leave.
Olmifon and Piracetam which I discussed with Tracy were not medicine I had any about. Our forum GP said he was ok about Olmifon in cases such as mine eventhough Dr Ameisen got into fits whenever he heard about Olmifon. Which is a problem. For us, users...
As a wrote to you in PM, had I known I would have such side effects I would never have tried bac. Because I worked really hard for two years with my shrink & addiction therapist + a coach to get back on track professionnally. And being on bac f*** up two years of efforts.

So..yes..I've been bitching on Ameisen and I told you the reasons why by PM. And Tracy who knows more than you do about all the reasons I was bitching on him ( reasons you won't be able to trace because I deleted my posts) reacted...the way you had reacted yourself..no more, no less...
So what?

This thread is about why Dr Ameisen comes but never posts..
Florie

[Cinders]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

Tracy,

A Voltaire-like comment:

His posts are moderated on the French forum because he has posted in what appears to be a drunken state. Perhaps you can relate. Make the person you are debating with look silly. Then his/her remarks will not be taken for the worth they actually are. You don't have to make a point, you denigrated.

I hated Voltaire. Afraid to debate, just demean? Hmmm. Sounds like someone I know.

Tracy is all over somebody getting six weeks of rehab for free (because it is socialized medicine, it must not cost anyone anything, and no, Florie, I understand now that you sufferered SEs from Baclofen that you did not think you would.)

You are so right how I mistyped this, Tracy. I was angry that someone could just get rehab for "free" based on taking Baclofen and dealing with the SEs. (I quote free here because nothing is free.) It still irks me. I had to pay lots of $$ of my rehabs and lots of $$ for my involuntary detoxes in hospitals. And, YES, I am a serious alcoholic. I make no bones about that. I want someone else to pay for my mess ups.

However, if I started taking a drug and it messed me up so much I could not work, I would declare time off. Last year I declared 8 weeks off. Leave Without Pay. Out of my pocket and no one else's. Rehab on my checkbook. But, if someone else would've paid, you bet I would have taken advantage of that and I don't blame Florie one bit.

Yep, calling me out for acting like a b@tch and not calling me a b@tch may work for you. It doesn't work for others, though.

Some people know that we can post, discuss and debate without using those words at all.

Actually, most do. Most know that we can post and not have someone else come back and say you must be drinking to belittle what we said. (Voltaire??)

Some know that we are all human beings and come in from different points of reference and do not always agree. It doesn't mean we are b@tches or b@astards. We are humans.

Some think they are above all others and know best.

Those people need to "be still."

Cindi

[bleep]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

And hopefully we are back on track...

I don't see a relapse as being any great shakes, to be honest. I said it earlier, and still believe it to be true. So what if OA decided to get pissed, again and again. It's now bigger than any one man.

This is real, and it works.

[redhead77]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

coalfire;1088905 wrote: Folks this is very worrying news re OA. My OH nephew is in trouble with drink and I have just sent his mother the book. She is plannning to go to his doc this week. If this(possible) relapse becomes known among the medical community OA and his Baclofen will be attacked on all fronts and 1000s of people like the nephew will find things very hard with their docs..

Yes and no. We have no idea the circumstances of his relapse. For all we know, he titrated off baclofen all together. Or was on a very low dose. It's all speculation. I wrote a whole post on visiting Dr L and how much we talked about needing to stay near the switch dose. He said the only time they see relapse is in people who come down too low, for them. He told me not to worry, if after 18 months or so, I wanted to try to come down, to do it. One can always go back up and fix it. It's really the only time "they" see relapse on bac. Maybe OA has fixed it already. We don't know. He obviously comes here frequently. So he's either a believer or laughing his ass off. I think there would be only so much you can take of this, so I choose the first.

[bleep]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

Hmmm, in the short time it took me to post that, there were 5 other posts on this thread.

The biggest thing I'm taking from this is this, is this:

Cindi, please just swe@r, Write the word bitch! It's ok.

You guys are no longer arguing a point, you are arguing with each other, and neither side is getting anywhere. As Florie is saying, this thread is about Ameisen. A quite important topic is being swept aside here.

[coalfire]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

TracyA;1088917 wrote: Probably the worst thing OA did was pronounce it as a "cure" as opposed to a treatment.
.

Thats it. Thats the problem. If he had taken a more ... I dont know..toolbox approach to Baclofen then a relapse would not be so harshly judged but if you proclaim a cure and travel all over the world promoting it and then drunk post on the forum that exists to discuss that cure then the fall out will not be good.

There is a better phrase than toolbox but hopefully you know what I mean. If it had been promoted like maybe nicotine patches are for smoking ie helpful but not a cure then his relapse would have given him a softer landing.

[Otter]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

I have to think that we are missing the point. Years ago, before Baclofen, I was searching book stores, contacting doctors, trying everything under the sun for alcoholism. Nothing worked. The best treatment I found was in Seven Weeks to Sobriety. We tried it and the problem was that it was hugely difficult to sort out the pills, it was not a prescription treatment, was hugely expensive, need I say more. You have to take about 72 pills a day.

Part of that treatment involves taking Gaba to calm the Gaba receptors in order to sort out underlying anger and anxiety issues so even that program recognized the importance of these receptors. It is not a program, sadly, which is amenable to use by doctors because they just don't want to know about nutrition and internet cures.

It left me feeling desparately alone. I kept thinking that there must be someone somewhere, a doctor, who was an alcoholic and not prepared to put up with this state of affairs. Surely, I thought, someone with some scientific background must have looked into it.

When I first saw Dr. Ameisin on TV I doubted what he said about there being a one pill cure. For many reasons a one pill cure is what is needed in alcoholism because it is easy (ish) to administer, cheaper and can be used by the medical profession. In the UK the government has adopted Subutex as the main treatment for heroin addiction and it is not perfect. It is used by courts in drug sentencing and has reduced addiction and associated crime. It is not perfect either.

This is all about finding a way out of alcoholism. It is a first step and to dismiss it because it is not the whole answer or perfect for everyone is a mistake.

I prayed for something which would make even a 10% improvement in my wife's condition. I moved our family to be near her parents so that I could get help raising our son and so she could be near her family if her health continued to decline and she died.

With Baclofen there has been, since getting a high dose prescription, a 100% improvement. Before that there were relapses and lots of them but still a huge improvement and a treatment for alcohol withdrawal. I have shown here how it can be used to stop a binge. Nothing compares to it.

Maybe there needs to be more development of the drug and maybe it needs to be studied in terms of its dosage for different people and maybe other medicines can be used with it to increase its effectiveness.

One thing is true though, it does work, the fact that people are recovering speaks for itself. We need to move to the next stages of its use and not deterred because one person, even if it is Dr. Ameisen may have fallen off the wagon. He is human.

[coalfire]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

redhead77;1088930 wrote: Yes and no. We have no idea the circumstances of his relapse. For all we know, he titrated off baclofen all together. Or was on a very low dose. It's all speculation.
.

Agreed..but he has been on it such a long time. People will have expected the poster boy to have sorted out his regime by now. The AA or the highway diehards will have a field day with this I think. It might not be a total disaster but its not good for brand Baclofen. If this was a foodstuff on the market the company would be having a heart attack and pulling in the PR people as a matter of urgency.

[coalfire]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

Good post Otter.

[Cinders]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

Team,

Remember, we have no other information other than gossip.

Yes and no. We have no idea the circumstances of his relapse.

Some here think this is gospel and others don't. Thinking that someone is posting on a thread drunk does not mean they are. Despite what others think.

I would appreciate it if OA would post if he relapsed or not and the circumanstances but at the end of the day, would you?

OA deserves some privacy, just as you and I do.

Cindi

[TracyA]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

Florieanne;1088919 wrote:
Olmifon and Piracetam which I discussed with Tracy were not medicine I had any about. Our forum GP said he was ok about Olmifon in cases such as mine eventhough Dr Ameisen got into fits whenever he heard about Olmifon.

Why? What does he object to about Olmifon?