Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

[Cinders]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

People will have expected the poster boy to have sorted out his regime by now.

How? He is the first one. How can you "sort it out" in such a short time? Admittedly it seems like a long time but in terms of alcoholism, this is a pittance.

We must be as kind to him as he has been to us.

Love,
Cindi

[Otter]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

I should add this. My wife had a huge relapse recently after being sober for some months. She decided to drink because she just wanted to end it all, couldn't take it. It went on for nearly two weeks. I kept her on baclofen throughout then just said stop. She was sober the next day, a little hung over, but went right back onto Baclofen and was up and about within a couple of days. She said that she just did not see the point of drinking, adjusted her dosage, stopped getting drink in "just in case". Within the past two weeks we have set up a treatment team and hopefully, if we have a relapse again like that we will be able to get real help instead of a lot of comments like "sorry to hear about your wife" and total neglect by her doctor. That is a big thing after 20 years of drinking.

I think that if Al is due to anxiety you have to look at the stress burden Ameisen carries and maybe he is a victim of his own treatment. Maybe he needs something in addition to Baclofen or maybe he is just deeply lonely and now and then says, "I just don't give a f..." and maybe that has nothing to do with alcoholism. Who knows. Certainly as of last summer the people I was speaking to who were speaking to him gave no indication he had relapsed. Maybe he needs more people to shoulder the burden of this movement. Maybe part of this is "psychosomatic"...the power of positive thinking...placebo and maybe all the negative "nay" saying here and vitriol is just making some people give up. Hope, after all, is a powerful medicine in itself.

[Florieanne]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

coalfire;1088905 wrote: Folks this is very worrying news re OA. My OH nephew is in trouble with drink and I have just sent his mother the book. She is plannning to go to his doc this week. If this(possible) relapse becomes known among the medical community OA and his Baclofen will be attacked on all fronts and 1000s of people like the nephew will find things very hard with their docs.I think people will say its just another case of complex wishful thinking by another alkie, like Audrey Kishline and moderation management.

Hello Coalfire,

This is what's going on in France right now. Where many articles on bac have been published in national weekly and monthly magazines. Radios & ...

On a widely listened to national radio...only 2 minutes given to Ameisen and 10 to another addiction therapist who doesn't believe in bac because he's seen too many side effects - he mentions too many sick leaves, people relapsing and the wishful thinking...

Saw with my addiction therapist at noon. I see her once a week since I started bac. A nurse "in training" was attending..
It seems I was the first patient on bac since 8 am => the student/nurse asked if we were talking about the medicine found by " the 'famous' cardiologist who has relapsed".
To which my addiction therapist answered yes.
What could I have said... except that I too had heard have about that.

In itself, it's not a problem. Not for me at least. Seems that bac is still, so far, the best cure.
Florie

[Otter]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

And maybe in a month he will be the famous cardiologist who is sober again!

Sadly, a lot of people seem to want this to fail...

If Dr. Ameisen is reading this then perhaps it might help if we wished him well, whatever his health is and not picked him a part for perhaps not actually being the God figure he has been built up to be.

Best wishes Olivier. Still the best!

[coalfire]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

Of course we wish him well on a personal level. Thats a given. He is only human. My concerns were about brand Baclofen.So its common news in France.Has he made any type of statement or given any explanation?

[Florieanne]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

Thanks Otter for all your posts here

The truth being we do not need God like figures, neither in ourselves nor in others...
It's just so much more fun when we know we're just all plain human beings.
And free at last!
Florie

[susiesmum]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

Hope you all don't mind me interjecting my thoughts on OA's possible relapse. I once heard (can't recall the source) that relapse is very common after 7 years, and no-one knows why. It's something I've often wondered about. If OA has relapsed, then maybe it is part of this pattern. My concern is that it is purely physiological, and something has reset in the brain. I would guess he himself doesn't know why he relapsed. The science behind bac is not fully known, in the long term. But I dont think we should assume his issues were pyschological, if you get my drift, and 'send' him back to AA etc!

[Otter]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

Again, why is that important? Brand Baclofen is bigger than him. There are others who are, I believe, more knowledgeable about the science of alcoholism than him who have gone beyond Baclofen and are saying that Baclofen is not the whole story. My wife takes an anti depressant and something called hydergine which is a nootropic to increase neurotransmission, as well as vitamin therapy, now has an alcohol nurse etc. Why focus on Ameisen, particularly if he is reading this. These threads send a lot of us to bed with bad thoughts. If he is drinking, let it run its course. That does not mean that anyone here is going to go the same route or that Baclofen does not work.

What I did read is that his maintenance dose was 30 mg per day which, to me , seems very low and, of course, the big double blind trial is ongoing so he is probably under huge stress. I have always said that this trial may be a mistake. I don't see this treatment as succeeding because of the trials. It is growing by word of mouth, exponentially and putting everything on a trial at this point in time could be a big booboo if it does not show that 100% of participants are 100% cured and I don't think that is going to be the result given what our experience has been. What supports do these people participating have, who are they, what other conditions do they have, what is their liver metabolism...

The more I think about it the more dangerous I think it is, both for the participants and Baclofen. What do I know. One can only hope for the best. Whatever happens, it will make no difference because Baclofen works... it IS the better mouse trap even if it is not perfect.

As for relapsing after 7 years, that would be without Baclofen. No one has been on Baclofen that long. I suspect he needs to increase his dose and de-stress.

[Florieanne]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

coalfire;1089002 wrote: .So its common news in France.Has he made any type of statement or given any explanation?

No.
Hope this thread helps him.
It would be a good thing, I think. A homely explanation. Like Otter's.

I also believe ( as Otter has said ealier) that the tension he must have gone through could be responsible for his relapse. No big deal in fact. Once we know how we Alkies function and given the fact he lowered to 20mg as a maintenance dose.
But his speaking about all this openly, plainly, would be great.
For it's still the best cure so far.
Florie

[Otter]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

20 mg. Aha.

Reminds me of the Elephant Man. Maybe he thought he had cured himself, wanted to be like everyone else, got fed up with taking the pills. If so, it is all the more tragic and my heart goes out to him. He has done so much. No one has done so much for our family without even knowing us.

I wish him the best and we should all do what we can to help him get well and carry on.

[Otter]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

oops

[Chi]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

OMG!!!

Why the fuck are you people still gossiping about OA??

I am appalled and outraged.

This forum needs a moderator. I believe it is likely against the TOS for members to discuss personal things about other members in the public forum. I will be PMing the admin asking that OA's privacy be respected.

This place has really gone downhill!

[Otter]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

I agree. If anything, this would be deeply disturbing.

Can we all agree to end this here with our best wishes.

[coalfire]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

Otter;1089028 wrote: putting everything on a trial at this point in time could be a big booboo if it does not show that 100% of participants are 100% cured. .

Thats what I was trying to get at. Its about perception. If the trial shows poor results people could perceive that it is a poor drug and might not take into account the other things you mentioned like needing other supports in place.

Ditto his relapse. Rightly or wrongly it creates a poor perception of the idea of Baclofen as a cure. Thats how it has been marketed. I have the book in front of me as I type.-The cure for alcoholism.
Hopefully as you say other people are involved now and brand Baclofen is now bigger than any individual. I dont know if what you have said about him being stressed due to workload is true. It sounds plausible. Thats why I was wondering had he made a statement. From one alkie to another I wish him well in recovering from his relapse. There would be something very wrong with me if I didnt. Again Otter I will repeat that this is a given. You seem very concerned at the idea that he might be reading this. Well he is a big boy and an intelligent one. I am sure he realises that if he promotes something as a cure and sells a book and then relapses then people are going to ask questions. It would be naive in the extreme to think otherwise. Your protectiveness towards him is touching. I admire your loyalty. Many people have swallowed Baclofen on his say so. People will want to know how this ended for the creator of the programme. I do not wish to send anyone to bed with bad thoughts but this debate is legitimate and in my mind that is the understatement of the year. If we only allow happy clappy stories of any medication to be discussed then we would fast become a very deluded bunch of people.

[TracyA]

Dr. Ameisen is on MWO - Right Now!

Otter;1089046 wrote: I agree. If anything, this would be deeply disturbing.

Can we all agree to end this here with our best wishes.

Stop talking about OA because someone might be disturbed? Stop talking about the guy who designed the entire protocol? Stop talking about the guy whose book we all bought? Stop talking about the reason we are all putting out big bucks for bac? Stop talking about the very first case-study of this protocol? Because someone might get "disturbed"?

How about: no thank you