Bac post switch stories and titrating back down

[Chi]

Hi everyone, lately there has been some discussion about reaching indifference, the maintenance dose and then titrating back down. Seems we have a wealth of info and stories here about titrating up but not so much about coming back down, maintenance dosing, and any issues with titrating down.

I would love to hear from anyone about their bac switch and experiences and dosing post switch.

I have hesitated to post this but I am starting to think I have hit the switch at 110mg. My craving is zero, and all that is left is the psychological stuff that is tied to my looooong habitual routine of drinking daily. Last night I opened one beer, didn't want it and dumped it out. Hard. To. Believe. Yes this is a woman who has been a heavy drinker for 20 years and a year ago I could drink a CASE of beer in a day on "special" occasions, and a 12 pack a day was the norm.

So.... post switch stories, info, dosing, etc.... bring them on

[Road to Recovery]

Bac post switch stories and titrating back down

I first felt indifference around the 12th of March 2010. To me it felt like something happenned in my head - something that made me think "Why do I need alcohol - I dont miss drinking anymore - it feels good to not be drinking". Before this my every waking thought was in the morning - "How much al did I drink last night and how much do I have for tonight". The day time thoughts were " how am I going to get money for AL and how am I going to get it and get it brought into the house". The evening thoughts were - "is it 8:00pm yet"? That was when the drinking would start and not end until I blacked out - everynight.
My feeling towards Alcohol did not change after I hit the switch - I really learned that it did nothing positive in my life - only caused trouble. I stayed on the switch dose of bac for about 8 months and one day decided that I wanted to titerate down and see if I could eliminate the bac intake. I went down about 20mgs per week with no ill side effects at all - I went down to zero. The cravings did not return for me and have not returned for the 5 plus months that I have been off bac.
Some choose to keep drinking (I guess it didnt have control over them like it did me) which I can see why you would need to stay on the bac but for me - abstaining has meant I could eliminate the bac as well.

[Chi]

Bac post switch stories and titrating back down

Thank you so much for sharing, and congratulations on your success!

I have a question, when you went down 20 mg per week did you reduce by 20 the first day of that week, or ease into it-- like 5 the first day and so on?

[Cinders]

Bac post switch stories and titrating back down

Road,

I know I should remember but what was your switch dose?

and many congratulations on being able to stay sober even without the Bac!!

I like the idea of staying at my switch dose for several months to get past the mental aspects of drinking.

Cindi

[Isolde]

Bac post switch stories and titrating back down

I hit the switch at 180mgs. I stayed there for almost a week, and then started to bump down by 20mgs a week. I only did that for the first week though. I really needed some relief from the sleep disruption and I wanted to get my dose lower faster. I started decreasing by 10mgs every 2 days, and it worked wonderfully for me. All of the good SEs that I'd experienced while titrating up were present the whole time I titrated down.
I stopped when I got to 80mgs and feel very good at that dose. At 90mgs, good sleep had returned. On 80, I feel very even keel all the time, and pretty good in general, about everything, most of the time. My indifference hasn't wavered.

Because I see my bac dose as fluid, and because I really liked the good SEs that I felt titrating down by 10mgs every 2 days, I recently decided to dose back up a little, to 130mgs. I went up the same way - 10mgs every 2 days, with zero side effects. It wasn't until I actually got to 130 that I started to feel any discomfort, but I was dropping back down to 120 the next day anyway. The euphoria that I had felt titrating down the first time wasn't as constant this time, but I definitely have had days that I felt amazing. I'm currently on 100 and will go back to 80 again and stay there for awhile. It seems like this method not only serves to prolong the good bac SEs (anti-anxiety and anti-depressant, more social, etc.), but should also help to cement my indifference.

I don't have a plan for how often I'm going to fluctuate up and down this way, but I figure I can employ it whenever I feel I need to.

[Road to Recovery]

Bac post switch stories and titrating back down

I hit the switch at a mere 80mg. My pills were 20mg so I cut them in half and went down 10mg every few days - not really following a strict regiment, I would just drop after a few days when I felt that there will no signs of SEs. I stayed at the switch dose for a long time because as Cinder's said - I wanted to ensure that not having AL in my life felt like the norm. I wanted to make sure that the habit of drinking in my head was gone.

[bleep]

Bac post switch stories and titrating back down

I reached indifference at just over 400mg's, but because I had gone up so quickly, I think I overshot the mark. I stayed at that dose for a couple of weeks, and then cut back foolishly to about 160mg's over the course of a few days. This proved to be too far too fast, and I was drinking again before I knew it.

I went up, this time to over 500mg's, and have reduced that successfully to about 270mg's where I have been for a about a week. I'll very gradually reduce this and see how it goes. Currently I'm not drinking, although I plan to moderate.

This whole titrating down issue really deserves a lot more attention than it currently gets. It's almost as important as going up, and we know so little about it. It seems some are able to titrate down to practically no baclofen, whereas others must maintain the same dose at which they reached indifference. Cest la vie, I suppose. If I have to remain on 270 / 300mg's for the rest of my life, so be it.

[PbarE]

Bac post switch stories and titrating back down

Great thread, Chi.

Looking back, I hit it somewhere between 100-140. However, out of fear I pushed up to 280. It was not a pleasant experience. In fact, my cravings returned to some degree at that level. They were manageable, but they were there. I don't think anyone else has reported that happening. It could be that I am a cocaine addict, not a pure alcoholic like most of ya'll. The dynamics of my addiction might be slightly different.

I am back down to 120, and can truly say I am indifferent. It is great to hear that some of ya'll hit the switch at a lower level too. It validates my experience some what.

I plan on slowly going down to 80 to see what happens. If cravings return, I can always go back up.

Here is where I am confused. Some sources say we should be able to go off bac completely after 18-24 months. Others say we should take bac for the rest of our lives. There seems to be no definitive answer at this point.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Bac post switch stories and titrating back down

I'm not sure where I reached indifference. Somewhere between zero bac and 340mg bac!
I took 340mg/day for a day or two, I'm not sure. I went quickly (a couple of days?) down to 280mg, then 260mg for a little while. I dropped to 220mg too quickly, twice, and got drunk because of the craving on both occasions. Back up to ~240/260 for a couple of weeks.

I'm at 220mg/day right now. No craving at all.

I'm still very nervous and tentative about whether or not it's going to last, or something, so I may go up again.
Isolde seems to have a good plan, and she's smiling! So I will follow her lead...

I think SEs are a good indicator. Functioning was very difficult at the 280++ range. When I went down too quickly I felt terrible. When it's right I don't feel uncomfortable at all.

My SEs are almost non-existent. I've had two nights where I slept almost 7 hours. Which is very frustrating!
I still get tired in the late afternoon, but then who doesn't get tired after lunch? The rest of the SEs are just gone, or only happen when I'm exhausted. (a bit of ear-ringing.)

Thanks for the thread, Chi.

(Come to think of it, I only took 200mg for the last two days. Maybe it's time to go down?)

[bleep]

Bac post switch stories and titrating back down

Ne/Neva Eva;1091818 wrote: ...

My SEs are almost non-existent. I've had two nights where I slept almost 7 hours. Which is very frustrating!
I still get tired in the late afternoon, but then who doesn't get tired after lunch? The rest of the SEs are just gone, or only happen when I'm exhausted.

...

Without a doubt, this is frustrating to me as well. I can sense my sleep is returning to normal, and I want baclofen sleep back! I was sleeping 4 hours a night and loving it. The other night, I slept through, and woke very angry with myself. All that extra time, gone. I'm desperately trying to train my body back to what it was doing so easily just a short while ago.

For me as well, there are no SE's at all. I miss them.

[Full English]

Bac post switch stories and titrating back down

I hit my switch at 210MG. I stayed on my switch dose for a few days then started titrating back down 10MG every 3 days. Sometimes I stayed on a set dose a bit longer if the cravings were there. At the higher doses (for me) I had real issues of depression and in insomnia. The blues definitely did shift as the MGs came down. The sleep also got better as I came down.
As I tritrated down, to work out whether I should tritrate down another 10MG I would often see how I felt after my afternoon dose. If the cravings weren't there, I'd skip my evening dose. The next day I'd see how things were on the slightly lower dose. If the cravings came back, I'd go up again.
I am now 4.5months sober thanks to BAC and on 20MG a day. Most days are pretty good. My daily 6pm alarm clock to drink has largely gone. There are some days I get cravings - but these seem to be related to events more than anything else - like the first day of a holiday, or a beautiful warm evening. I miss the ceremony of Al on these occasions.
I still believe that there is a in-built need to escape in us - especially addicts. A lot of cultures encourage the use of drugs and alcohol to relax, escape and go onto a different level. While BAC has addressed my cravings, I still miss the escape it offers - even 4.5 months in. I think it was Ig who suggested that a cure of alcoholism with BAC was flawed on this level.
My memories of the mess I was in pre-BAC is preventing me experimenting with the escape Al offers. I am grateful that BAC (even at 20MG) takes the hell of battling cravings largely away.
I wish all well on their BAC Journeys,
Full English

[Guest]

Bac post switch stories and titrating back down

Full English;1092887 wrote: I hit my switch at 210MG. I stayed on my switch dose for a few days then started titrating back down 10MG every 3 days. Sometimes I stayed on a set dose a bit longer if the cravings were there. At the higher doses (for me) I had real issues of depression and in insomnia. The blues definitely did shift as the MGs came down. The sleep also got better as I came down.
As I tritrated down, to work out whether I should tritrate down another 10MG I would often see how I felt after my afternoon dose. If the cravings weren't there, I'd skip my evening dose. The next day I'd see how things were on the slightly lower dose. If the cravings came back, I'd go up again.
I am now 4.5months sober thanks to BAC and on 20MG a day. Most days are pretty good. My daily 6pm alarm clock to drink has largely gone. There are some days I get cravings - but these seem to be related to events more than anything else - like the first day of a holiday, or a beautiful warm evening. I miss the ceremony of Al on these occasions.
I still believe that there is a in-built need to escape in us - especially addicts. A lot of cultures encourage the use of drugs and alcohol to relax, escape and go onto a different level. While BAC has addressed my cravings, I still miss the escape it offers - even 4.5 months in. I think it was Ig who suggested that a cure of alcoholism with BAC was flawed on this level.
My memories of the mess I was in pre-BAC is preventing me experimenting with the escape Al offers. I am grateful that BAC (even at 20MG) takes the hell of battling cravings largely away.
I wish all well on their BAC Journeys,
Full English

Hey Full English!

Thank you for this, I identify with your feelings completely. Aside from my playing with dosing, I have had the same 'escape' urges and believe this is partly to blame for my occasional lapses whilst using baclofen. Titrating down too quickly is a more recent culprit, but whilst I was indifferent at 180mgs I really missed getting drunk so much. I acted on this twice thinking that Baclofen would save me, and it did. Then I dropped too quickly and wham.

Anyway thanks again, I'm going to keep your post in mind whilst I titrate up again.

[Chi]

Bac post switch stories and titrating back down

From bleep's thread on Dr. A's email.... I think it applies here and didn't want this thread to fall away.

My initial reason for contacting him was to query the maintenance dose, as I had been struggling to come to grips with this. He stated that some people are able to reduce their dose after reaching indifference, as he did, others need to remain there.

So it seems that we are all different (who knew? lol) and it makes sense to me that our alcoholism (reasons, type, severity, individual response to meds, etc) would be different too.

I still want to hear as many personal stories as possible, but so far it looks to me like staying at the dose at which indifference occurs for at least several months seems to have helped people with long term success on lower doses of bac. Some need to stay higher which is fine too and sure beats the alternative. It makes sense to me that it would give the brain a chance to rewire. Isn't the Sinclair method based on something similar? I know for me drinking became so habitual, that even in the absence of craving my ingrained habits were a strong driving force. Now I'm all about replacing those dysfunctional habits. I realize this will take awhile which is why I won't be reducing bac anytime soon. I'm looking forward to a summer of clarity and fun as opposed to hangovers, blackouts and self loathing.

[Chi]

Bac post switch stories and titrating back down

I still believe that there is a in-built need to escape in us - especially addicts. A lot of cultures encourage the use of drugs and alcohol to relax, escape and go onto a different level. While BAC has addressed my cravings, I still miss the escape it offers - even 4.5 months in. I think it was Ig who suggested that a cure of alcoholism with BAC was flawed on this level.

I agree.... BUT there are many ways to escape that don't involve chemicals. I see glimpses of this. It's in the FUN activities that give us joy. Take someone who plays video games. It's an escape to indulge in the fantasy of the game. Now I am not personally a gamer, but I LOVE a good mystery. I can get lost in a good discussion on a complex case, and I've been doing that lately.

Not sure if what I am saying makes sense, I hope it does, and welcome any thoughts.

[coalfire]

Bac post switch stories and titrating back down

It makes perfect sense Chi. I get you. This was a huge issue for me in the early weeks. I wasn't craving as such but I just wanted to "check out" for a while. I felt that there was way too much reality and sobriety in my life and it was unsettling(ouch..don't like the way that looks written down) It does get easier. For a month it scared the crap out of me. It just felt like this big vast empty sober landscape and I needed to cut it down.
I remember going through this intense massage stage because Indian head massages blisses you out and maybe softens all that reality a bit. I remember doing a ton of family visits too. It was as if I couldn't handle all my own reality so I was visiting their reality for the evening. I lived on MWO.

It is getting easier and I can truthfully promise people that. Around day 50 I finally learnt how to handle an evening. 5-10 pm now on most days is just an evening. I have had the occasional flare up of fear/panic/craving/permission thoughts especially when I am on my own but for the most part I have calmed down. I have had many days now where I wonder what the heck was so scary or unsettling about an evening that I had to medicate and get drunk just to pass the time.

I haven't started a hobby or anything. I have just learnt to stay in my own skin or headspace and simply be. Just learning to deal with my emotions has taken me 10 weeks and truthfully I think I would need another 6-8 weeks to cement the process. I have started to read a lot again. I used to read to escape instead of drink and its obviously better for you

.Slowly slowly you adjust to all the sober time and things gradually creep in to fill the blanks.You become more open and available to other people and other ideas/interests/things and gradually life closes over the drinking spaces the way grass slowly grows over a new patch of uncovered soil. This takes a few months though and in my opinion/experience even one single relapse sets the process back a lot. In fact it destroyed it completely for me in the past. I just didnt stay AF for long enough and I can see that now.

I had to completely deny myself that urge to "check out" and it was only by doing that week in week out that it eventually started to wither and die. Its as if your brain says"ok so its not happening" and eventually gives up looking for it. If I had allowed myself the odd check out from reality then I would have kept the hopes of my addicted brain alive and kept reinforcing the idea that check out time was an option which just allows this whole flipping nightmare to continue.Thats where I realise I have been going wrong in the past now. You can actually train your brain to stop bugging you and looking for it every time 5pm comes round but it only worked when I starved it to death.