Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

[alexan]

"Alexander The Next" 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen



Let's hope Alexander conquers the last frontier and root for him to have a good and happy steady ride -- and may he (me) also maintain his athletic endeavors intact.
-- I certainly hope I don't look back at this and laugh yet again at another fruitless attempt at Moderation or being AF.


Here is what has happened so far:

4/06/11 Wednesday night: No TSM book yet, no clue hence - results in: 25mg Naltrexone followed by another 25mg naltrexone the same night = wrong start + Drank of course.

Not so bad waking up at first on wednesday afternoon but psycho-paranoid by evening. Shakes, Nightmares. I'm hounding the mywayout board and thesinclairmethod board like there's no tomorrow, beseiging anyone and everyone I can find for help. I'm near hysterical which is very unusual for me as I usually have a smirk on my face when I hit the regular sober chatboards and people are talking 2012 and making excuses for getting a drink.

4/07/11 Thursday Night (Notice how I'm going by "Nights" here?) Only took 12.5 Naltrexone -- Dreams were crazy -- woke up Friday 4/08/11 morning with some paranoia

so
4/08/11 Friday wasn't as bad as the day before -- though still got up late, still some shivers, but by evening at 9pm had showered, shaved, and with the newly discovered thread on Baclofen, was heading out to the Gym when I saw the TSM book had already arrived and been sitting out on the door step all day long, so took it with me for Cardio -- Also had found some old Bac prescribed to me years ago for god knows what along the way to the Gym (very very old luggage story, don't ask). With only one hour left till the Gym's closing time (what is wrong with everyone else?...Who DOESN'T EVER feel like going to the Gym at 2am?) did 30 minutes on the bike, then 30 minutes on the Elliptical while reading the first pages of the TSM book *(WOW)*. So TRUE: Very Inspired. Drove home.. extra endorphin rush. Feeling fly like a G-6. Guess what that means? Neurons are firing...

Next:

4/08 Friday Night at that time around 12am after getting home from gym around 12am, I take two careful doses of 12.5 Naltrexone (just to maintain caution) equalling a total of 25mg But find that this time around I could have gone for a full 50mg as I did enjoy the wine I drank (see previous post First post here: https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...one-49260.html).

At the same time for the first instance ever I now cut a pill of 20mg Baclofen into four pieces and Took First ever dose of Baclofen at about 5mgs -- As I was expecting, it did nothing. Took another 5mg -- nothing. I've had around three drinks by now and getting sleepy -- so I drink up the remaining Bac pill of 10mg (I have by now taken 20mg on my first night). I also take half an Ambien (5mg) for insurance like I usually do and get to bed. But suddenly I feel like the Bac maybe has me staying up on a weird high like cocaine (?) (not that kind y'all, like actual Sierras ski snow) and I feel like white powder and snow bunnies running around my head -- Needless to say its 6:32am in the morning and I can't sleep, so I head to the kitchen, eat some eggs and this time take half a Lunesta because I can't stay up all night. I may have also taken another 10mg of bac, because there was 10mg/half of a 20mg pill left in the pill cutter!! I can't remember! Did I take 30 mg in my first night?? Yes I probably did.

...As I so find out Sat morning at 10:30am when I woke up after a weird 4 hour sleep but the sun is shining and the future looks bright and I can't wait to read more of the TSM book, so I pour some coffee and take another 30mg of the Baclofen. I'm still sitting here... I'm groggy but that could be many things. Feel lofty, zolofty, or something.

LATER THAT AFTERNOON:
I think I'm okay... plus I need to get some errands done. So around 3:30 after trying to hold down the odd haze and cleaning up a bit, I head out and carefully drive around and get some errands done *(well, a hell of a lot more than I've gotten done in the last 3 weeks of drinking and lying around my place)* -- Now I can't wait to hang out at a coffee shop in the beautiful sunshine and read up more of the TSM book

So what happened at the Coffee Shop??

NEXT POST!

[alexan]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

After the previous post, Had taken 30 mg late Saturday night --
-- but haven't been able to sleep again so took another 20 mg first, then cooked/ate some more scrambled eggs again just now and now at the 26th hour from my first dose: I have just taken yet another 20mg again --

SO at this point in the last 27 hours I am at the 140 mg mark with the Baclofen.
...Feels like I'm on some international 36 hour flight.

Just ATE a looot of CARBS. Starting to get sleepy -- Hope I can finally get a little sleep! Somnolence?! Not something I've really known most of my life except when I really was on some transcontinental plane for 36 hours and finally fell asleep somewhere in an airport chair or drooling on an aircraft cabin window over the Atlantic or the Pacific or some other (before I discovered Alcohol made me sleepy and then...) ... wait, what was I talking about again?!? ...
LaterZzzzzzz...

[bleep]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

Good luck Alexan. I would read some of the threads around here, particularly the titration one, before taking much more baclofen! If you start to feel quite strange, you can pretty safely lay the blame at erratic titration.

I suggest you slow down bit, and read.

[Greg]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

Alexan I don't know your history, but if the paranoia and hysteria only began Wednesday night, I'm guessing they could be as result of a negative reaction to naltrexone (although I imagine such a thing could be rare). They could also be symptoms of alcohol withdrawal if you suddenly drank a lot less than usual that night and later days/nights.

As for the baclofen I'd agree with Bleep, taking too much without being used to it is very likely to cause even more problems for you. You should definitely titrate up slowly since not many people have been able to take heaps of it straight away without having seriously bad reactions.

Mate also be careful taking sleeping pills with alcohol or other drugs hey.

Good luck with everything!

[JohnR]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

I just ran across your thread and had to comment on your baclofen dosage. Please understand baclofen is an etremely powerful drug and rapid titration will most likey result in delayed unwanted and devastating side effects.

Please reconsider misusing this drug until you unterstand exactly what you are dealing with.

Good luck!

[alexan]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

I just want to let it be known that the job I have is one that requires absolute mental acuity at all times and complete control of the verbal and physical senses.

Luckily, I have some time off right now and that's why I'm trying to get myself on an SE free regimen as soon as possible. I can lie in bed all day and deal with electric shocks and ennui and what not...
BUT
I will not be able to take high doses. REPEAT, I will not be able to take high doses of Bac when I return to work.

Just wanted to let that rest in my progress diary :H

[alexan]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

Hey Greg,

Thanks for writing -- FYI yes the initial paranoia and hysteria was because of Naltrexone... Sorry I have since found out that -- I knew that when I posted that and should have clarified it... It goes away very quickly however.

The Baclofen SEs were different -- insomnia, nausea, electric shocks, have mostly gone away at this point.

I'm also not very much into drinking anymore -- but who knows what's going on with me right now -- only time will tell :H

:nutso:

[Cinders]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

Alexan,

I ordered Naltrexone and have made an appt with a psychiatrist so I can be put on it properly, just too eager to wait.

I am also on Baclofen. Have gone up to 100 mgs/day yesterday. I will continue to go up.

My goal is AF. There is no way I could convince my hubby that after 3 rehabs, 4 involuntary hospital intakes due to alcohol, that I could ever drink safely again.

Well that, and the fact that both of my children are alcoholics and my husband's point is that drinking is not necessary and in our family quite destructive. So why do it at all? He does have a good point.

But, since I travel extensively, drinking is something I can and do on the road. (Often with disastrous results.)

So, in order to augment the Baclofen, I wanted to add the Naltrexone. If I do drink, I will follow TSM. One hour before I drink, I will take a Naltrexone.

Meanwhile and forever, I will take Baclofen.

Interestingly, I take Gabapentin for a medical condition. I have read it also helps with GABAB receptor's change from alcohol abuse, while Baclofen helps with GABAA receptor's change.

So, I am taking a drug to help with the GABAB, the GABAA and soon will be adding a drug for extinction.

A walking chemical nightmare, I will be!!

Keep us up-to-date on the Nal/Bac front!!

Cindi

[bleep]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

Or perhaps a walking chemical dream, Cindi. One of these days it's going to come right.

[Terry Oh]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

alexan:
From personal experience, erratic baclofen dosing is the worst thing you can do. I also have a very mentally demanding job (I'm a professional something or other), and the only way I can perform on 100 mg/day is to take it very consistently and evenly spaced out.
The naltrexone one can obviously take "on demand". The baclofen, not so much. A slight increase knocks me out and a slight decrease results in cravings.
I strongly suggest making a written schedule, and marking off every dose you take. It's easy to forget what you've taken. Many people find that if the dosage is increased VERY slowly, the side effects will be much less prominent.
Good luck though! Seems like more and more people here are trying the Baltrexone combo. (Naltrexofen? Nalibac? Baclonal?) Eager to hear about your progress.

[Cinders]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

I like Baltrexone best.

Cindi

[Florieanne]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

So do I

[alexan]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

Haha I love that -- Baltrexone!! Good one

[bleep]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

Terry Oh;1098043 wrote: alexan:
From personal experience, erratic baclofen dosing is the worst thing you can do. I also have a very mentally demanding job (I'm a professional something or other), and the only way I can perform on 100 mg/day is to take it very consistently and evenly spaced out.
The naltrexone one can obviously take "on demand". The baclofen, not so much. A slight increase knocks me out and a slight decrease results in cravings.
I strongly suggest making a written schedule, and marking off every dose you take. It's easy to forget what you've taken. Many people find that if the dosage is increased VERY slowly, the side effects will be much less prominent.
Good luck though! Seems like more and more people here are trying the Baltrexone combo. (Naltrexofen? Nalibac? Baclonal?) Eager to hear about your progress.

Very good post in a lot of ways.

[alexan]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

The Magic's Gone...

So while I was sitting at the coffee shop on that day the 7th of April, someone I knew walked in and I stood up from my TSM book to greet them. That was when I felt it - the first baclofen buzz - it felt like a weird mixture the closest to which I can describe is it felt like taking an ecstasy pill followed by a ketamine bump (something that was widespread at parties 10 years ago). I was sitting there with a goofy smile on my face and kept thinking to myself "oh my god, I feel sooo F&*$-ing high". I suddenly felt like Bradley Cooper in "Limitless", like Natalie Portman turning into the Black Swan... ... it was ridiculous.

As I stepped up the dosage over the next two or three days, I got numbness / "electric shocks" in my hands and feet, which I didn't know were routine and since I had previously had head/back injuries, the fear of potential nerve damage freaked me out to the extent that I stopped the dosage completely until "Murph" responded to my posting saying this SE was normal. I remember how relieved I was when I read that post. So I continued back on upping and lowering the dosage as per my body's response aka "listening to my body". Every few days, the Bac kept feeling like it had "built up" and I would have to "taper" down (what's the other word for it?), then I would go back up -- all in all I went all the way up to 340mg within the first ten days (?? -- I actually don't remember much) with a lot of guidance from Loop and this board. If it wasn't for Loop stepping in and telling me his titration history, I would never have been able to stay on Bac at all, because I'm just not the kind of person who can patiently dredge away, paining and suffering for weeks or months, even on the lower dosages. Still, the mental fog was omni-present and the insomnolescence was off the charts. There was always quite a bit of booze in the fridge and I would keep buying more (force of habit?) but then not wanting to drink it -- although at the higher Bac dosages the side-effects felt so bad, that I would coax myself to drink to feel better, and the alcohol ironically helped cope with them. I never drank all too much though. In the morning, there would always be multiple opened beer cans that were still full sitting around on the counter.

The one thing that never changed no matter how low I took the dosage down to, was the feeling that I was "on something". I didn't like that feeling. I couldn't foresee myself "feeling" that way all day, every day, for an unforeseen duration. Even after weeks of being at higher dosages and a couple of days off, even one pill would put me in that mental "haze" and I relied on mental acuity to do my job.

Then after about four weeks of this on-again, off-again, ebb-and-flow Bac titration up and down (middle of May), I became severely constipated. I was drinking water, doing everything right, fiber and all, but it was so severe that I couldn't even go when finally I wanted to go (gross but I couldn't get it out) -- but for the fact that I didn't have health insurance it was definitely a 911 type hospital room emergency, and I was later told I would have had to have been operated had I gotten to an ER. Despite the incredible pain and profound rectal bleeding I was finally able to get it out, but there was so much canal damage in the process that it took somewhere close to a week for the rectal wounds to heal. I was afraid that there might be full blown hammerhoids, so along with the mental alertness problem I decided to take a complete break from Bac; and just see how I get along on taking Naltrexone alone.

But what came next was surprising, something strange that prequelled testing myself. You see after a few weeks of on occasion taking Naltrexone (when going out); one random day I was depressed about something. Or maybe I was sick of not getting a "rush" and just wanted to party and feel the high by not taking Naltrexone for a change.. [this is something I'm surprised not more people on Naltrexone do, considering they became alcoholics in the first place by chasing the reward system -- something that should make slipping and not taking the pill once in a while rather attractive]. Nevertheless, what I realized was that even without taking the Naltrexone, I was no longer feeling the "rush". It was almost like being on the Naltrexone pill, but without actually being on it, if that makes any sense. Is it possible that somewhere through all that Baclofen schedule, some kind of permanent changes were made in my brain? I have to say that it is the most curious thing. Its almost "normal". On more than one occasion, I have literally found myself "chasing the dragon", running after that "high", by gulping shots and downing drinks but never achieving any euphoria - only getting "woozy" - and instead ending up with a worthless blackout to be realized the next day.

Over the last few weeks, this latter feeling has given birth to the sober realization (no pun intended) that the pleasure I felt from rapid alcohol consumption for so many years was not coming back. Like I said, it only makes me "woozy" and there is no "rush", "high", "euphoria". This in turn, does exactly what it makes one do when on Naltrexone, which is say to oneself "Well, what's the point of drinking anymore, its not going to happen". This is also how I used to feel back in the days when I first started drinking -- it wasn't until 8 or 9 years later that any pronouned euphoric feeling or pleasure started to manifest itself while doing so -- and that is what got me hooked.

I have to add here that in the last few months I had also, by some kind of pure completely unrelated accident, started taking 1000mg Fish Oil tablets (one at night). I will admit that most of these results almost immediately did coincide with the beginning of that intake, so I am not completely sure which of what it is, that has led to these recent developments, giving me these mentioned results. When I first realized that I was waking up early every day, not worrying about the problems in my life and having things slide off of me, like I was when I first started taking prozac ten years ago before becoming alcoholic (that only lasted a year or so before it stopped working i.e. "lost its poop"); I immediately googled "Fish Oil" and "Mood", and surprisingly stumbled upon a study that just came out in May 2011:

Fish Oil May Have Positive Effects on Mood, Alcohol Craving, New Study Shows - Office of Public and Media Relations

How Fish Oil Affects Your Mood (And Alcohol Consumption)


I still drink a little more than I would like to (3-4 drinks per session) -- although its not anywhere quite as often and progressively much, much lesser and lesser (there are always drinks poured out or left over in the fridge), and I always wonder why I am drinking at all -- which in turn leads to me drinking even less than I already am. Is it out of some "old habit" thing, I wonder??

I do almost miss it sometimes, that euphoric "Rush", but when I think about the price I paid for it; I can't immediately help but think how I'm all the more better without it. Its almost miraculous and I still can't believe this is/has happened/happening; and truly hope it lasts and is not just a phase.

While I am not taking the Bac anymore for the previously mentioned reasons, I am guessing that my previous intake did indeed in some way lead to my present state. I still take the Nal at least once a week, if for no other reason but to keep my body used to tolerating it.

I am very grateful to Loop and the good people of this board; and I'm sorry it took me so long to post on here. I just didn't want to post anything until I was sure of what was going on and then wanted to have detailed everything beforehand; which, along with all the busy little things that this new life has brought, took some time to get around to getting done and written.